If you send Christmas cards....

[jeffy]

Don't forget to send one to these people: 

ACLU
125 Broad St.
18th Floor
New York, NY 10004

I'd recommend a card with a religious theme, perhaps a picture of baby Jesus.

[powercatpurple]

Make sure it says "Merry Christmas" on it too...not one of those cheap ass "Happy Holidays" cards either....

[Thin Blue Line]

[Brock Landers]

When I bought my cards this year I made sure to find a set that all had the phrase "Merry Christmas" prominently displayed on the front of it....none of that Happy Holidays or Season's Greetings garbage.

I was really interested in finding cards where the "Christ" in "Christmas" was on the front in giant capital letters, but no such luck.  Apparently I'm not shopping for cards at the right place   

[Pete]

I'm not going to do this.  It will make it more difficult for them to identify the donation that I sent them.

[Dirty Sanchez]

Be sure to dust the inside of your envelope with a white powder such as flour.  Doing Christmas cards and making Christmas cookies at the same time.  Multitasking.  Nothing wrong with that.

[chum1]

Spiteful Christmas cards?  You guys aren't really Christians, are you?  Haven't you heard about Hell?

[Thin Blue Line]

Spiteful Christmas cards?  You guys aren't really Christians, are you?  Haven't you heard about Hell?

Reservations made. Tickets purchased. 

[Dirty Sanchez]

All men are sinners.

[jeffy]

Spiteful Christmas cards?  You guys aren't really Christians, are you?  Haven't you heard about Hell?

You really don't understand Christianity, do you?

[chum1]

No, not really.  But I do understand the ACLU and that's way more important.

[Pete]

No, not really.  But I do understand the ACLU and that's way more important.

Yep.  Without the ACLU, and people like them (i.e. the authors of the Bill of Rights) we may not be able have Christianity in this country...or at least not your favorite flavor of it (let alone any other religion).

WORLD FORUM YOU ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!1111

[Thin Blue Line]

No, not really.  But I do understand the ACLU and that's way more important.

Yep.  Without the ACLU, and people like them (i.e. the authors of the Bill of Rights) we may not be able have Christianity in this country...or at least not your favorite flavor of it (let alone any other religion).

WORLD FORUM YOU ASSHOLES!!!!!!!!!1111

Read up, on the separation between church and state, before making statements about the authors. Tia.   

[chum1]

Are we similarly to disregard "All men are created equal" as well?  That seems silly.

[Thin Blue Line]

Are we similarly to disregard "All men are created equal" as well?  That seems silly.

In case you've forgotten your history (really shouldn't sleep through class, chum1) the only place the separation between church and state exists is in two letters, written back and forth, between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptists. The Danbury Baptists, in a letter to President Jefferson dated October 7, 1801, affirmed that "Our Sentiments are uniformly on the side of Religious Liberty — That Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals — That no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious Opinions - That the legitimate Power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor...". President Jefferson, in a response dated January 1, 1802, wrote, "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

That's it. It doesn't appear anywhere else. The essense of the letters is that the government should not establish a government run religion. By the SCOTUS having the rulings that they have done, in effect the government has established the religion of Secular Humanism.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

Seriously?  Just stop it.

The very first words in the Bill of Rights are the (Anti-)Establishment Clause.  The Bill of Rights was broadened to protect citizens from all state and local governments by the 14th Amendment.  This means no government at any level in the U.S. may prefer one religion over another.

The action is in whether putting a Christian cross on your city hall or outlawing peyote constitutes establishing a governmentally-approved religion or prohibits the free exercise thereof.

Please move to World Forum.

[Pete]

Seriously?  Just stop it.

The very first words in the Bill of Rights are the (Anti-)Establishment Clause.  The Bill of Rights was broadened to protect citizens from all state and local governments by the 14th Amendment.  This means no government at any level in the U.S. may prefer one religion over another.

The action is in whether putting a Christian cross on your city hall or outlawing peyote constitutes establishing a governmentally-approved religion or prohibits the free exercise thereof.

Please move to World Forum.

WORD.

Also, don't forget the ol' free exercise clause...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

Seems kinda official and stuff to me, no? 

[Dirty Sanchez]

No, not really.  But I do understand the ACLU and that's way more important.

Yes, because the aclu has way more influence on world political, social, economic policy, action and philosophy now and in the past.

ur a rubz!

[Thin Blue Line]

Seriously?  Just stop it.

The very first words in the Bill of Rights are the (Anti-)Establishment Clause.  The Bill of Rights was broadened to protect citizens from all state and local governments by the 14th Amendment.  This means no government at any level in the U.S. may prefer one religion over another.

The action is in whether putting a Christian cross on your city hall or outlawing peyote constitutes establishing a governmentally-approved religion or prohibits the free exercise thereof.

Please move to World Forum.

The current debate, concerning the anti-establishment clause:

1) Does denial of ability to pray in classroom, to teach creationism, to include religious values in the curriculum constitute hostility to religion violative of Free Exercise Clause and establish a religion of secularism?

2) Is any breach in the wall of separation of church and state in education a violation of 1st amendment?

I sincerely believe that if the writers of the constitution were to see where this country had gotten itself, they would shake their heads and cry, if not call for another revolution.

[Chingon]

Seriously?  Just stop it.

The very first words in the Bill of Rights are the (Anti-)Establishment Clause.  The Bill of Rights was broadened to protect citizens from all state and local governments by the 14th Amendment.  This means no government at any level in the U.S. may prefer one religion over another.

The action is in whether putting a Christian cross on your city hall or outlawing peyote constitutes establishing a governmentally-approved religion or prohibits the free exercise thereof.

Please move to World Forum.

The current debate, concerning the anti-establishment clause:

1) Does denial of ability to pray in classroom, to teach creationism, to include religious values in the curriculum constitute hostility to religion violative of Free Exercise Clause and establish a religion of secularism?

2) Is any breach in the wall of separation of church and state in education a violation of 1st amendment?

I sincerely believe that if the writers of the constitution were to see where this country had gotten itself, they would shake their heads and cry, if not call for another revolution.

1) Any student can pray to themselves in school. 

Creationism is religion, just like teaching kids about the Immaculate Conception or the Ascension of Mary, and has been ruled so many many times by even the most conservative of judges. 

Which religious values?  Be specific.  That's the problem.

Also please tell us all what you think secularism is, so we can see what makes it a religion to you.

[Thin Blue Line]

Seriously?  Just stop it.

The very first words in the Bill of Rights are the (Anti-)Establishment Clause.  The Bill of Rights was broadened to protect citizens from all state and local governments by the 14th Amendment.  This means no government at any level in the U.S. may prefer one religion over another.

The action is in whether putting a Christian cross on your city hall or outlawing peyote constitutes establishing a governmentally-approved religion or prohibits the free exercise thereof.

Please move to World Forum.

The current debate, concerning the anti-establishment clause:

1) Does denial of ability to pray in classroom, to teach creationism, to include religious values in the curriculum constitute hostility to religion violative of Free Exercise Clause and establish a religion of secularism?

2) Is any breach in the wall of separation of church and state in education a violation of 1st amendment?

I sincerely believe that if the writers of the constitution were to see where this country had gotten itself, they would shake their heads and cry, if not call for another revolution.

1) Any student can pray to themselves in school. 

Creationism is religion, just like teaching kids about the Immaculate Conception or the Ascension of Mary, and has been ruled so many many times by even the most conservative of judges. 

Which religious values?  Be specific.  That's the problem.

Also please tell us all what you think secularism is, so we can see what makes it a religion to you.

Secular humanists:  Do not rely upon gods or other supernatural forces to solve their problems or provide guidance for their conduct. They rely instead upon the application of reason, the lessons of history, and personal experience to form an ethical/moral foundation and to create meaning in life. Secular humanists look to the methodology of science as the most reliable source of information about what is factual or true about the universe they all share, acknowledging that new discoveries will always alter and expand their understanding of it and perhaps change their approach to ethical issues as well. In any case their cosmic outlook draws primarily from human experiences and scientific knowledge.

Religion: A specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.

In considering if secular humanism would fall into the definition of a religion, it is important to consider that secular humanism has formed groups (sects) wherein all members share the same beliefs. There have been numerous groups (sects) that have affiliated together to form the Council on Secular Humanism.

I could go on.

[Chingon]

Well using that definition of religion, then just about every human activity is a religion. Are sports a religion?

Your definition of religion is too broad to be useful in a legal discussion.

[Thin Blue Line]

Well using that definition of religion, then just about every human activity is a religion. Are sports a religion?

Your definition of religion is too broad to be useful in a legal discussion.

As the case of United States v. Ballard, 322 U.S. 78, 64 S. Ct. 882, 88 L. Ed. 1148 (1944), demonstrates, the Supreme Court must look to the sincerity of a person's beliefs to help decide if those beliefs constitute a religion that deserves constitutional protection. The Ballard case involved the conviction of organizers of the I Am movement on grounds that they defrauded people by falsely representing that their members had supernatural powers to heal people with incurable illnesses. The Supreme Court held that the jury, in determining the line between the free exercise of religion and the punishable offense of obtaining property under False Pretenses, should not decide whether the claims of the I Am members were actually true, only whether the members honestly believed them to be true, thus qualifying the group as a religion under the Supreme Court's broad definition.

In addition, a belief does not need to be stated in traditional terms to fall within First Amendment protection. For example, Scientology—a system of beliefs that a human being is essentially a free and immortal spirit who merely inhabits a body—does not propound the existence of a supreme being, but it qualifies as a religion under the broad definition propounded by the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court has deliberately avoided establishing an exact or a narrow definition of religion because freedom of religion is a dynamic guarantee that was written in a manner to ensure flexibility and responsiveness to the passage of time and the development of the United States. Thus, religion is not limited to traditional denominations.

   next

[Chingon]

Took you a while to google that answer, too bad it has nothing to do with my question.

Are sports a religion?  Why or why not?

Is it your position that teaching evolution or relativity is akin to religion?

[jeffy]

Pastafarianism.

All Hail FSM!