New Theory

[catdude33]

We just can't make a shot.  Sure our defense isn't great, and rebounding is not to the level it was last year, but those things seem much more glaring when you just can't put the fracking ball into the basket.  When you're making shots it often cures, or at least glosses over, all those little details of playing basketball.

We are 9th in FG% (46.9%)
We are 11th in 3FG% (32.8%)
We are 11th in FT% (61.9%)

I think not being able to make wide open jump shots is our most glaring weakness, and also one the magnifies all the others.

[Pike]

Yeah we're horrible at shooting unless were right under the hoop

[MTC44]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

[catdude33]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

[ksu_FAN]

Shooting isn't great, but its really not that different than what we have come to expect from a Martin team.  FT shooting is really the "most horrible" shooting stat right now.  3PT shooting slightly below "normal" K-State 3PT shooting.  2PT shooting is actually up.  Overall offensive efficiency isn't bad either.

But like most teams, its not one thing. 

[MTC44]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

Don't get how that matters....if we shoot better we STILL allow 76 to a crap team.  We shot the ball poorly.  Shouldn't matter.  Our D should be good enough that we can shoot poorly against crap opponents and not worry.

So, whether we score 112 or 83, the major concern is the fact that we can't stop a terrible offense.

[1/64th]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

We might have beat them that bad if OUR GOOD PLAYERS WERE PLAYING instead of CMerr and VOje.  

[JTKSU]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

Don't get how that matters....if we shoot better we STILL allow 76 to a crap team.  We shot the ball poorly.  Shouldn't matter.  Our D should be good enough that we can shoot poorly against crap opponents and not worry.

So, whether we score 112 or 83, the major concern is the fact that we can't stop a terrible offense.

You do know that they put 68 on the #1 team in the nation, right?  Their offense isn't exactly "horrible."

[pissclams]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

Don't get how that matters....if we shoot better we STILL allow 76 to a crap team.  We shot the ball poorly.  Shouldn't matter.  Our D should be good enough that we can shoot poorly against crap opponents and not worry.

So, whether we score 112 or 83, the major concern is the fact that we can't stop a terrible offense.

You do know that they put 68 on the #1 team in the nation's 2nd and 3rd string, right?  Their offense isn't exactly "horrible."

JT, I FYP'd.

[JTKSU]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

Don't get how that matters....if we shoot better we STILL allow 76 to a crap team.  We shot the ball poorly.  Shouldn't matter.  Our D should be good enough that we can shoot poorly against crap opponents and not worry.

So, whether we score 112 or 83, the major concern is the fact that we can't stop a terrible offense.

You do know that they put 68 on the #1 team in the nation's 2nd and 3rd string, right?  Their offense isn't exactly "horrible."

JT, I FYP'd.

To be fair, they put a ton of those points on our 2nd and 3rd teamers as well. 

[mcmwcat]

don't be too hard on 'clams.  he was prolly busy watching his team win a huge game last night.

[pissclams]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

Don't get how that matters....if we shoot better we STILL allow 76 to a crap team.  We shot the ball poorly.  Shouldn't matter.  Our D should be good enough that we can shoot poorly against crap opponents and not worry.

So, whether we score 112 or 83, the major concern is the fact that we can't stop a terrible offense.

You do know that they put 68 on the #1 team in the nation's 2nd and 3rd string, right?  Their offense isn't exactly "horrible."

JT, I FYP'd.

To be fair, they put a ton of those points on our 2nd and 3rd teamers as well. 

it would have been worse if Martin had left the 1st string in.


i do like CD33's theory though and its a good one.

"we just can't make a shot" -
frank's offense is set up to score in transition.  
he's got two small and quick guards, clemente who loves his runner in the lane and pullen who shoots well from the perimeter when he has time to get set and generally knocks down the open 3.
he's recruited a stable of long, athletic, and quick, big men who can get up and down the floor (I'm looking at you Luis   ).

the problem comes in that his attacking defense isn't generating the turnovers it needs to avoid the half court offense and therefore our team struggles to find a way to score, a.k.a. "make a shot"

martin at this point has two options, he can stick with the guys who are too overmatched to stop someone but play defense the way frank wants it played and offensively suck enought that they can't score, or he go with the guys who don't want to run his defense but can score if given the opportunity to adapt to a half court set.  

option a is obviously what frank is going with, he's going to out stubborn his team and beat them into submission.  we see it every year, the coaches have to force these clowns into playing as hard as they need to play.

i really think he's moving more towards option b though, with his recruitment of bigger guards who not only can create for themselves, more importantly, they can create for others.  right now, clemente and pullen really struggle with that- but those are the guards that martin inherited when he came.

so ya, i agree that we just can't make a shot.

don't be too hard on 'clams.  he was prolly busy watching his team win a huge game last night.

i LOL'd when Youngstown txt'd me and asked for the score, I don't think he knew K-State played last night.

[JTKSU]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

Don't get how that matters....if we shoot better we STILL allow 76 to a crap team.  We shot the ball poorly.  Shouldn't matter.  Our D should be good enough that we can shoot poorly against crap opponents and not worry.

So, whether we score 112 or 83, the major concern is the fact that we can't stop a terrible offense.

You do know that they put 68 on the #1 team in the nation's 2nd and 3rd string, right?  Their offense isn't exactly "horrible."

JT, I FYP'd.

To be fair, they put a ton of those points on our 2nd and 3rd teamers as well. 

it would have been worse if Martin had left the 1st string in.


i do like CD33's theory though and its a good one.

"we just can't make a shot" -
frank's offense is set up to score in transition.  
he's got two small and quick guards, clemente who loves his runner in the lane and pullen who shoots well from the perimeter when he has time to get set and generally knocks down the open 3.
he's recruited a stable of long, athletic, and quick, big men who can get up and down the floor (I'm looking at you Luis   ).

the problem comes in that his attacking defense isn't generating the turnovers it needs to avoid the half court offense and therefore our team struggles to find a way to score, a.k.a. "make a shot"

martin at this point has two options, he can stick with the guys who are too overmatched to stop someone but play defense the way frank wants it played and offensively suck enought that they can't score, or he go with the guys who don't want to run his defense but can score if given the opportunity to adapt to a half court set.  

option a is obviously what frank is going with, he's going to out stubborn his team and beat them into submission.  we see it every year, the coaches have to force these clowns into playing as hard as they need to play.

i really think he's moving more towards option b though, with his recruitment of bigger guards who not only can create for themselves, more importantly, they can create for others.  right now, clemente and pullen really struggle with that- but those are the guards that martin inherited when he came.

so ya, i agree that we just can't make a shot.

don't be too hard on 'clams.  he was prolly busy watching his team win a huge game last night.

i LOL'd when Youngstown txt'd me and asked for the score, I don't think he knew K-State played last night.

That's just plain silly. You really think that FHSU would have given our #1s a better game than, say, Boston U or Dayton?  Or did we suddenly replace that team with an entirely different group of players?

[catdude33]

Allowed 76 to a piece of ish FHSU team.  Don't care how poorly we shot, defense is our biggest issue.

Don't overthink it, you might hurt yourself.

Had we beat them 112 to 76 none of these threads would exist.

Don't get how that matters....if we shoot better we STILL allow 76 to a crap team.  We shot the ball poorly.  Shouldn't matter.  Our D should be good enough that we can shoot poorly against crap opponents and not worry.

So, whether we score 112 or 83, the major concern is the fact that we can't stop a terrible offense.

You do know that they put 68 on the #1 team in the nation's 2nd and 3rd string, right?  Their offense isn't exactly "horrible."

JT, I FYP'd.

To be fair, they put a ton of those points on our 2nd and 3rd teamers as well. 

it would have been worse if Martin had left the 1st string in.


i do like CD33's theory though and its a good one.

"we just can't make a shot" -
frank's offense is set up to score in transition. 
he's got two small and quick guards, clemente who loves his runner in the lane and pullen who shoots well from the perimeter when he has time to get set and generally knocks down the open 3.
he's recruited a stable of long, athletic, and quick, big men who can get up and down the floor (I'm looking at you Luis  ).

the problem comes in that his attacking defense isn't generating the turnovers it needs to avoid the half court offense and therefore our team struggles to find a way to score, a.k.a. "make a shot"

martin at this point has two options, he can stick with the guys who are too overmatched to stop someone but play defense the way frank wants it played and offensively suck enought that they can't score, or he go with the guys who don't want to run his defense but can score if given the opportunity to adapt to a half court set. 

option a is obviously what frank is going with, he's going to out stubborn his team and beat them into submission.  we see it every year, the coaches have to force these clowns into playing as hard as they need to play.

i really think he's moving more towards option b though, with his recruitment of bigger guards who not only can create for themselves, more importantly, they can create for others.  right now, clemente and pullen really struggle with that- but those are the guards that martin inherited when he came.

so ya, i agree that we just can't make a shot.

I agree with your premise that when we aren't scoring in transition we have a hard time scoring in the half court.  However last night it was much simpler than that several times.  FHSU did not play great defense.  We missed at least 6 or 7 threes with no defender in sight.  Sometimes it's just about shooting.

[michigancat]

I think they should try to run more off made baskets and plain ol' rebounds.

[JTKSU]

I think they should try to run more off made baskets and plain ol' rebounds.

Bingo.  I thought about that a ton last night.  We don't seem to be very effective in the traditional half court game and our athletic ability (I think) could be better utilized on the break.  Plus, Denis seems to shoot better in transition.  (How many little tear drops did he even attempt last night?  Seemed like very few, if any.)  Also, that way at least our bigs are already moving towards the rim, whereas in the half court offense, it appeared that our bigs were much more concerned with getting back to play defense than they were with getting rebounds.  Can't count how many times I saw our bigs hustling back while the ball was still up for grabs, often still in the air.

[sys]

I think they should try to run more off made baskets and plain ol' rebounds.

martin talks a lot about running, but really his teams haven't played at a tremendous pace.  faster than your average slth, but nothing notable.

[mcmwcat]

don't get the hatin on the offense.  considering the lack of transition opportunities it seems we are getting a lot of points. the last 3 games I have been to (Ole Miss, IUPUI and FHSU) the defense has been a joke and the offense has been solid.

plus when samuels, kelly, pullen and clemente are on the floor we actually have 4 guys that can score at 4 different legitimate position.   when was the last time we could say that about a KSU team.

[pissclams]

I think they should try to run more off made baskets and plain ol' rebounds.

Bingo.  I thought about that a ton last night.  We don't seem to be very effective in the traditional half court game and our athletic ability (I think) could be better utilized on the break.  Plus, Denis seems to shoot better in transition.  (How many little tear drops did he even attempt last night?  Seemed like very few, if any.)  Also, that way at least our bigs are already moving towards the rim, whereas in the half court offense, it appeared that our bigs were much more concerned with getting back to play defense than they were with getting rebounds.  Can't count how many times I saw our bigs hustling back while the ball was still up for grabs, often still in the air.

i think i just said that.

[kougar24]

It's hard to run when a) your fastest guy has a bum ankle, b) your other guard has no one to pass to when he's in, and c) no one else on the court can dribble or shoot when said people are Merriewether, Ojeleye, and partially Sutton.

So unless Pullen and Samuels get out front, we aren't going to see beautiful transition buckets during the non-con.

[JTKSU]

I think they should try to run more off made baskets and plain ol' rebounds.

Bingo.  I thought about that a ton last night.  We don't seem to be very effective in the traditional half court game and our athletic ability (I think) could be better utilized on the break.  Plus, Denis seems to shoot better in transition.  (How many little tear drops did he even attempt last night?  Seemed like very few, if any.)  Also, that way at least our bigs are already moving towards the rim, whereas in the half court offense, it appeared that our bigs were much more concerned with getting back to play defense than they were with getting rebounds.  Can't count how many times I saw our bigs hustling back while the ball was still up for grabs, often still in the air.

i think i just said that.

Maybe, but I don't read your posts because you are dumb.