Date: 26/08/25 - 23:55 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Anybody? Can it Happen again?  (Read 1725 times)

November 27, 2009, 11:40:43 AM
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royalswild

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In a few years can we go back to the old days of being ranked in the top 5?  Can we go back to big bowl games?

I want to believe it can happen, but I don't want my hopes crushed.

November 27, 2009, 12:21:37 PM
Reply #1

kst8cat

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Consult your local Magic Eight Ball.  Mine told me not to count on it.   :'(

November 27, 2009, 12:23:32 PM
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michigancat

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November 27, 2009, 12:26:08 PM
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Special_K

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In a few years can we go back to the old days of being ranked in the top 5?  Can we go back to big bowl games?

I want to believe it can happen, but I don't want my hopes crushed.
We're not as far off as some people might think.

We need to fill some holes on defense (hopefully the jucos we're bringing in will prove to be the answer) and we need to find a QB, be it Lamur, Harper, or a QB not yet on this roster.

IMO the biggest thing to getting back to that level will be keeping this coaching staff intact and recruiting at a high level on the defensive side of the ball. Our defense was the biggest reason for our success during the DOD and it will have to be again if we're ever going to get back to that.

November 27, 2009, 12:32:12 PM
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cooter

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if Cincy, BSU, tcu and Utah can do it why not us again. 

Just need a break or two a couple stud players and we are back. 

November 27, 2009, 01:21:37 PM
Reply #5

cireksu

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Not with a lame duck coach that can't recruit a qb

November 27, 2009, 01:35:01 PM
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Chingon

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In a few years can we go back to the old days of being ranked in the top 5?  Can we go back to big bowl games?

I want to believe it can happen, but I don't want my hopes crushed.
We're not as far off as some people might think.

We need to fill some holes on defense (hopefully the jucos we're bringing in will prove to be the answer) and we need to find a QB, be it Lamur, Harper, or a QB not yet on this roster.

IMO the biggest thing to getting back to that level will be keeping this coaching staff intact and recruiting at a high level on the defensive side of the ball. Our defense was the biggest reason for our success during the DOD and it will have to be again if we're ever going to get back to that.
We are quite a bit further away than you think.  I think most people vastly underestimate how good those top 5 teams were.  Our defense is very far away from that kind of dominance, and the offense is light years behind. 


November 27, 2009, 01:40:29 PM
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royalswild

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Not with a lame duck coach that can't recruit a qb
Snyder is not a lame duck coach.  He beat the low expectations the critics gave the Wildcats for this season.

November 27, 2009, 01:48:40 PM
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WillieWannabe

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Not with a lame duck coach that can't recruit a qb
Snyder is not a lame duck coach.  He beat the low expectations the critics gave the Wildcats for this season.

Might as well just stop. You are not going to get the answer you are looking for in here.
I walk out of that tunnel in this building and the passion of our fans, just gets me going. I mean just gives me an adrenaline rush that you guys just don't understand. - Frank Martin

November 27, 2009, 02:38:21 PM
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royalswild

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Not with a lame duck coach that can't recruit a qb
Snyder is not a lame duck coach.  He beat the low expectations the critics gave the Wildcats for this season.

Might as well just stop. You are not going to get the answer you are looking for in here.
I certainly have to agree with you on that one.

November 27, 2009, 02:57:03 PM
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JTKSU

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Not with a lame duck coach that can't recruit a qb
Snyder is not a lame duck coach.  He beat the low expectations the critics gave the Wildcats for this season.

Dude, didn't you get the memo?  Snyder wasn't the reason for the DoD, it was his assistant's doing.  Snyder sucked before, he sucked this season, and he'll continue to suck.
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November 27, 2009, 03:02:08 PM
Reply #11

catsfan20052006

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You're going to have to define what you mean by "good old days" (believe me the OLD days weren't that good) when you ask this question. You speak of going to "big" bowl games. We've been to two Fiesta Bowls in 20 years? That's two unless you count Cotton Bowls which I'm pretty sure makes the total four. Lets not try to make two to four "big" bowl games in 20 years mean that we're suddenly a dynasty. As far as being in the Top 5 is concerned, haven't we only finish in the Top 5 once in 113 years?

If you mean like it really was (becoming consistantly bowl eligible and occasionally competing for a Big XII Championship and maybe even a National Championship) sure we can. We just have to make sure that coach Snyder's successor is someone with ties to the program who understands what it takes to win here (dumbing down the non conference schedule and beating the teams that we're supposed to beat on a regular basis).
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November 27, 2009, 03:37:24 PM
Reply #12

powercat5000

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You're going to have to define what you mean by "good old days" (believe me the OLD days weren't that good) when you ask this question. You speak of going to "big" bowl games. We've been to two Fiesta Bowls in 20 years? That's two unless you count Cotton Bowls which I'm pretty sure makes the total four. Lets not try to make two to four "big" bowl games in 20 years mean that we're suddenly a dynasty. As far as being in the Top 5 is concerned, haven't we only finish in the Top 5 once in 113 years?

If you mean like it really was (becoming consistantly bowl eligible and occasionally competing for a Big XII Championship and maybe even a National Championship) sure we can. We just have to make sure that coach Snyder's successor is someone with ties to the program who understands what it takes to win here (dumbing down the non conference schedule and beating the teams that we're supposed to beat on a regular basis).

agreed

November 27, 2009, 05:01:27 PM
Reply #13

Special_K

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We are quite a bit further away than you think.  I think most people vastly underestimate how good those top 5 teams were.  Our defense is very far away from that kind of dominance, and the offense is light years behind. 
Could not disagree more. Our offense is a good QB and a couple of offensive lineman away from being back to DOD form. The skill players we have returning next year along with the depth along the OL is going to be something we haven't seen since '03.

I agree that our defense isn't there yet, but a couple more solid recruiting classes and we could be. The thing was those DOD defenses were loaded with NFL talent and alot of other players that were just good college football players (aka Josh Buhl, Tank Reese, etc.).

We have some players on this defense that I think will end up on NFL rosters at some point but not to the extent of what we once had and with not near the talent at LB or depth along the DL.

November 27, 2009, 08:18:56 PM
Reply #14

kst8cat

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You're going to have to define what you mean by "good old days" (believe me the OLD days weren't that good) when you ask this question.
I believe he did define this as being years KSU was ranked in the top 5.  Anybody with half a brain would know the era being referred to.  Most of those 11-win teams had weeks during the season that they were ranked in the top 5.  Take 1998, for instance, in which the team was ranked in the top 5 during 14 of 16 weekly polls.

You speak of going to "big" bowl games. We've been to two Fiesta Bowls in 20 years? That's two unless you count Cotton Bowls which I'm pretty sure makes the total four. Lets not try to make two to four "big" bowl games in 20 years mean that we're suddenly a dynasty.
Fiesta Bowl years were 1997 and 2003.  That is two in a seven-year stretch, or two in the past 13 years.  Why are you arbitrarily increasing it to 20 years?  Also, I don't see how the Cotton or Holiday Bowls would not be considered big bowls since they are supposed to take the 2nd and 3rd place Big 12 team, respectively.  In fact, all three times KSU went to the Holiday Bowl, they were ranked in the top 10 going into the game, won it, and ended up ranked in the 6th/7th/8th range.  To KSU fans those were big bowls, and some years the team's on-field performance actually warranted a higher bowl than what they got (see 1998, 1999, and 2002). 

As far as being in the Top 5 is concerned, haven't we only finish in the Top 5 once in 113 years?
KSU never did finish a season ranked in the top 5.  But what does that prove?  There were six top 10 finishes (including three at 6th place), and an additional four top 20 finishes.  I guess I don't understand what you are getting at, however.  Nobody here proclaimed KSU an all-time football dynasty, yet you seem to be arguing against that point as if somebody did.  KSU did win 11 games six times in a seven-year span and was only the second program ever to do that, and people just want to have some more years like that.  Why bring up ancient history as if nobody is aware of how bad KSU was before Snyder. 

If you mean like it really was (becoming consistantly bowl eligible and occasionally competing for a Big XII Championship and maybe even a National Championship) sure we can. We just have to make sure that coach Snyder's successor is someone with ties to the program who understands what it takes to win here (dumbing down the non conference schedule and beating the teams that we're supposed to beat on a regular basis).
I don't agree with your point about "dumbing down the non-conference schedule" either.  There is no reason not to play at least one halfway decent top-35 caliber team each year, particularly now with 4 non-con games available instead of 3 like it was prior to 2006.  It still bothers me that the 1997-1999 teams didn't get to play any non-con teams with a pulse during the regular season.  Those teams were so good, they could have manhandled virtually any OOC team out there, and yet they got stuck playing way below-average teams.  Maybe we are splitting hairs here, though.  I agree we don't need to be scheduling two top 25 teams a year, especially during a rebuilding mode. 

November 27, 2009, 10:24:21 PM
Reply #15

JTKSU

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We are quite a bit further away than you think.  I think most people vastly underestimate how good those top 5 teams were.  Our defense is very far away from that kind of dominance, and the offense is light years behind. 
Could not disagree more. Our offense is a good QB and a couple of offensive lineman away from being back to DOD form. The skill players we have returning next year along with the depth along the OL is going to be something we haven't seen since '03.

I agree that our defense isn't there yet, but a couple more solid recruiting classes and we could be. The thing was those DOD defenses were loaded with NFL talent and alot of other players that were just good college football players (aka Josh Buhl, Tank Reese, etc.).

We have some players on this defense that I think will end up on NFL rosters at some point but not to the extent of what we once had and with not near the talent at LB or depth along the DL.

That quote pretty much directly contradicts the rest of your post.  I think we're not too far away from being a bowl-type of team, one that could win the north in a down year.  But we're light years away from DoD.  I think many people tend to totally underestimate the talent we had on those DoD teams.  We basically had every starting senior end up on an NFL roster, every year.  We had many guys that went on to productive careers, some had (or are having) very special NFL careers.  Our DoD lines would make this year's line look like high school kids.  Seriously.  We used to average well over 300 lbs per, with NFL type of talent.  This year's line will be lucky to have one guy get a cup of coffee.  Our skill players were among the best in the nation.  True lockdown corners.  Safeties that could actually defend the pass and the run.  Linebackers that were not only good sized, but very athletic.  Freaking Heisman caliber QBs.  Dudes like Beasley that won 11 games in back-to-back seasons.  Not to mention depth.  We could lose a guy like Andy Eby to injury and replace him with a freaking Nick Leckey.  Lawrence goes down, we replace him with Hickson.  (Or was it the other way around?)  If Thomas was injured this year, we replace him with Keithen and lose every remaining game.  We could put together a couple good classes and have a little run like Houston is having right now.  But, after they graduate their studs next year, do you think they'll reel off another 4 or 5 eleven win seasons?  I seriously doubt it.  My realistic goal for our program is to get back to being a bowl team basically every year.  Every few years, we'll make a little noise, maybe a few appearances in the CCG.  Hell, maybe pull off a big upset and beat UT or OU one year and live like kings in Tempe for a week.   We could do that.  I don't seen any more streaks like we had from 1997-2003 though.   :steadymobbin':

November 28, 2009, 06:46:12 AM
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Special_K

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That quote pretty much directly contradicts the rest of your post.  I think we're not too far away from being a bowl-type of team, one that could win the north in a down year.  But we're light years away from DoD.  I think many people tend to totally underestimate the talent we had on those DoD teams.  We basically had every starting senior end up on an NFL roster, every year.  We had many guys that went on to productive careers, some had (or are having) very special NFL careers.  Our DoD lines would make this year's line look like high school kids.  Seriously.  We used to average well over 300 lbs per, with NFL type of talent.  This year's line will be lucky to have one guy get a cup of coffee.  Our skill players were among the best in the nation.  True lockdown corners.  Safeties that could actually defend the pass and the run.  Linebackers that were not only good sized, but very athletic.  Freaking Heisman caliber QBs.  Dudes like Beasley that won 11 games in back-to-back seasons.  Not to mention depth.  We could lose a guy like Andy Eby to injury and replace him with a freaking Nick Leckey.  Lawrence goes down, we replace him with Hickson.  (Or was it the other way around?)  If Thomas was injured this year, we replace him with Keithen and lose every remaining game.  We could put together a couple good classes and have a little run like Houston is having right now.  But, after they graduate their studs next year, do you think they'll reel off another 4 or 5 eleven win seasons?  I seriously doubt it.  My realistic goal for our program is to get back to being a bowl team basically every year.  Every few years, we'll make a little noise, maybe a few appearances in the CCG.  Hell, maybe pull off a big upset and beat UT or OU one year and live like kings in Tempe for a week.   We could do that.  I don't seen any more streaks like we had from 1997-2003 though.   :steadymobbin':
There is no contradiction in my post. My point is our offense is really a solid QB and a few offensive lineman away from being back to the DOD form next season. We have skill players on our offense next season that would challenge or beat some of the players we saw during that period (ala D. Thomas, C. Harper, B. Smith, etc.).

The defense isn't as close but can get there with a few more recruiting classes. If I look at our roster for next season, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Harold and Josh Moore will at some point be on NFL rosters. Guys like Lamur, Darius Thomas, Bumpas, Terrell, and several of the jucos we're bringing in could develop into NFL-caliber players or, at the very least, very solid college football players.

And, no, every starter on those DOD defenses didn't end up in the league, but the point was we surrounded our NFL talent with guys that played fundamentally sound and were solid players at the college level despite what they might have lacked in talent.

November 28, 2009, 08:14:59 AM
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There is no contradiction in my post. My point is our offense is really a solid QB and a few offensive lineman away from being back to the DOD form next season. We have skill players on our offense next season that would challenge or beat some of the players we saw during that period (ala D. Thomas, C. Harper, B. Smith, etc.).

The defense isn't as close but can get there with a few more recruiting classes. If I look at our roster for next season, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Harold and Josh Moore will at some point be on NFL rosters. Guys like Lamur, Darius Thomas, Bumpas, Terrell, and several of the jucos we're bringing in could develop into NFL-caliber players or, at the very least, very solid college football players.

And, no, every starter on those DOD defenses didn't end up in the league, but the point was we surrounded our NFL talent with guys that played fundamentally sound and were solid players at the college level despite what they might have lacked in talent.

The solid Qb and recruiting players part is sort of where your argument breaks down.



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November 28, 2009, 09:02:52 AM
Reply #18

Stupid Fitz

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Not with a lame duck coach that can't recruit a qb

This  :-[

Amazing thread btw
« Last Edit: November 28, 2009, 09:04:28 AM by Stupid Fitz »

November 28, 2009, 01:32:58 PM
Reply #19

JTKSU

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That quote pretty much directly contradicts the rest of your post.  I think we're not too far away from being a bowl-type of team, one that could win the north in a down year.  But we're light years away from DoD.  I think many people tend to totally underestimate the talent we had on those DoD teams.  We basically had every starting senior end up on an NFL roster, every year.  We had many guys that went on to productive careers, some had (or are having) very special NFL careers.  Our DoD lines would make this year's line look like high school kids.  Seriously.  We used to average well over 300 lbs per, with NFL type of talent.  This year's line will be lucky to have one guy get a cup of coffee.  Our skill players were among the best in the nation.  True lockdown corners.  Safeties that could actually defend the pass and the run.  Linebackers that were not only good sized, but very athletic.  Freaking Heisman caliber QBs.  Dudes like Beasley that won 11 games in back-to-back seasons.  Not to mention depth.  We could lose a guy like Andy Eby to injury and replace him with a freaking Nick Leckey.  Lawrence goes down, we replace him with Hickson.  (Or was it the other way around?)  If Thomas was injured this year, we replace him with Keithen and lose every remaining game.  We could put together a couple good classes and have a little run like Houston is having right now.  But, after they graduate their studs next year, do you think they'll reel off another 4 or 5 eleven win seasons?  I seriously doubt it.  My realistic goal for our program is to get back to being a bowl team basically every year.  Every few years, we'll make a little noise, maybe a few appearances in the CCG.  Hell, maybe pull off a big upset and beat UT or OU one year and live like kings in Tempe for a week.   We could do that.  I don't seen any more streaks like we had from 1997-2003 though.   :steadymobbin':
There is no contradiction in my post. My point is our offense is really a solid QB and a few offensive lineman away from being back to the DOD form next season. We have skill players on our offense next season that would challenge or beat some of the players we saw during that period (ala D. Thomas, C. Harper, B. Smith, etc.).

The defense isn't as close but can get there with a few more recruiting classes. If I look at our roster for next season, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume Harold and Josh Moore will at some point be on NFL rosters. Guys like Lamur, Darius Thomas, Bumpas, Terrell, and several of the jucos we're bringing in could develop into NFL-caliber players or, at the very least, very solid college football players.

And, no, every starter on those DOD defenses didn't end up in the league, but the point was we surrounded our NFL talent with guys that played fundamentally sound and were solid players at the college level despite what they might have lacked in talent.

I said just about every senior starter ended up on an NFL roster  And some juniors as well.  From 99-03, we had 27 players drafted.  That's over 5 per season that were drafted, not including the free agent signings.   That's pretty much all of the starters that declared for the draft every season.