Date: 29/08/25 - 12:47 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: I do not like how KSU matches up with ku...  (Read 3884 times)

November 03, 2009, 11:33:52 AM
Reply #60

Dick Knewheizel

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1) We don't get much pass rush.  VERY inexperienced in the secondary.  Good passing teams have picked us apart (Tech w/ Sheffield, and OU)

2) Reesing is mobile and he has a lot of chemistry with his receivers (prolly both on & off the field...eeeuuuwww!!)

3) Snyder's offense works against OU's defense because OU is NOT an assignment disciplined D rather they turn their players loose in a "controlled chaos" type fashion.  That is why w/ the duel threat running game and mobile OL(yes, our OL is mobile) we can create running lanes, cutbacks, etc.  ku is more fundamentally sound w/ regards to their own assignments. 

4) While I realize this game is HUGE for KSU given the past few years vs. ku, Snyder's return, etc, etc...this game may be even bigger for ku.  They had big expectations, they're wounded, cornered, and they need this one in the worst way.  They have the team that has been embarrassed this year from their season.

5) I hate to say it but this one smells like CU '01 after coming back from OU "moral victory" '01.  Yes, this ku team is nothing close to that CU '01 team but KSU '09 is nothing close to KSU '01, at least not defensively.

 :ohno:

1.  Lack of pass rush has been true at times but has not always been true especially at home.  Even against OU I thought we got pressure at times and forced a number of holding calls.  Fitzgerald has really upped his game lately OU had Trent Williams a first round draft pick to match up on him ku has nothing even remotely close to that.  Calvin is playing welll too really impressed me vs. OU and I like the matchups Calvin will see vs. ku.   I think we can get pressure on ku similar to the A&M and CU games.  Good passing teams have picked us apart on the road for sure.  At home again it is a different story A&M is a good passing team by any measure and we were able to shut them down at home.  I don't expect us to shut down ku like we did A&M but I don't expect a repeat of Tech or OU either.  

2.  agree with this though Reesing is not as fast as people make him out to be.  Has good instincts and feels pressure well but for whatever reason he has not been doing as good a job at this lately.

3. don't agree with this at all.  OU is aggressive but they are sound.  ku is not as well coached as OU on defense and they are not nearly as experienced.  ku is are very inexperienced they have been plugging in freshman all over the field the last few weeks and moving back up o-lineman and WR's to key rolls on defense.  These kids have only been playing for the last couple of weeks and they'll see a totally different type of offense then what they've seen before.  

4.  I think this game will be big for both teams don't expect either side to look past it or gain an edge motivation wise.  

5.  01 CU wasn't a let down game they were just much better then we were that season.  I think the OU game will boost confidence but I don't think it is likely for this bunch to be over confident given what happened against ku last year.  

this is accurate of someone who's watched any of the teams play.  Thank you

November 03, 2009, 11:35:48 AM
Reply #61

Dick Knewheizel

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We didn't have great pressure against aTm and cu but we confused their qb's into holding the ball too long which created sacks.

I don't remember in those games getting to the qb's very quickly.

This is absolutely false

November 03, 2009, 12:04:52 PM
Reply #62

Bookie Pimp

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Let me simplify this one for y'all....

a) two teams going in opposite directions.

b) more importantly, KSU's DE coach (Joe Bob Clements) was on the ku staff last year as the DL coach. historically, when one team has a coach from the opponents staff from the previous year, the moving coach(s)'s team wins. examples include: (OU vs KSU when Mangino, etc left KSU, NC State vs FSU when Amato, etc left, Rice vs Tulsa recently... and many more.

Call me a homer, but I'm loading up on Snyder and the 'Cats!!

Hope this helps.


 :WeirdRobert:

November 03, 2009, 12:10:00 PM
Reply #63

Pete

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The thing that scares me the most is that the Powertards have the "w" written in permanent marker already.   :ohno:

November 03, 2009, 12:26:04 PM
Reply #64

Guscat

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Let me simplify this one for y'all....

a) two teams going in opposite directions.

b) more importantly, KSU's DE coach (Joe Bob Clements) was on the ku staff last year as the DL coach. historically, when one team has a coach from the opponents staff from the previous year, the moving coach(s)'s team wins. examples include: (OU vs KSU when Mangino, etc left KSU, NC State vs FSU when Amato, etc left, Rice vs Tulsa recently... and many more.

Call me a homer, but I'm loading up on Snyder and the 'Cats!!

Hope this helps.


 :WeirdRobert:

That, and Snyder has won something like 13 of 14 over ku.  If you're betting, bet on trends.

November 03, 2009, 12:36:59 PM
Reply #65

cireksu

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We didn't have great pressure against aTm and cu but we confused their qb's into holding the ball too long which created sacks.

I don't remember in those games getting to the qb's very quickly.

This is absolutely false


Maybe when we were up 30 and pinning the ears back.

but yes, they were coverage sacks for the most part.

November 03, 2009, 12:49:52 PM
Reply #66

Legore

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I agree with KSU_fans analysis that shutting down ku's run game will be key.  If they don't run it well I think they have a hard passing well enough to win.   See the CU game for an example of this.  Really see any of their losses for an example if you can't run it and have to throw almost every down then you're going to most likely have some turnovers.   The exception to this would be if you had a very good offensive line but ku doesn't have a very good offensive line.    

Take away the run and play relatively mistake free on offense and we should win.  If we play on offense like we did in the second half vs. CU we'll probably get beat.   But i really just feel like this game is more about what we do then what ku does.  If we come out on offense like we did in the last 3 quarters against OU I think we win the game and there isnt much ku can do about it.  

November 03, 2009, 01:13:54 PM
Reply #67

catfan28

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Well, we don't have Freeman this year......

So that automatically helps us in the turnover/ratio for this game.

November 03, 2009, 01:43:47 PM
Reply #68

mcmwcat

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    Now that's how you get out a f***ing blood stain.
hatter you do this every year.

2005 - you were scared sh*tless about the ku defense shutting down our offense. (well, it happened)
2006 - http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=5277.msg51949#msg51949 (nailed it)
2007 - http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=16811.msg212497#msg212497 (nailed it)
2008 - no one gave a sh*t
2009 - this thread

now, you nailed it in previous years, but i think you are full of sh*t this year. go to hell clown.

can you pull up anything prior to the LALA game?
When I was a kid growing up in the projects, I used to dream of going into space, of escaping the slums, of killing an Ewok!

November 03, 2009, 02:11:32 PM
Reply #69

Dick Knewheizel

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We didn't have great pressure against aTm and cu but we confused their qb's into holding the ball too long which created sacks.

I don't remember in those games getting to the qb's very quickly.

This is absolutely false


Maybe when we were up 30 and pinning the ears back.

but yes, they were coverage sacks for the most part.

No they weren't.  CU's QB was running for his life every time he dropped back, and we dropped Johnson quickly about 6 times.  Most of the sacks and pressure was created with 4 down lineman and occasionally a LB.  The difference b/w a coverage sack and a "real sack" is impossibly unquantifiable (which is why they aren't kept as separate sacks even in the NFL) but I would say the pressure got there more often than not, in under 4 seconds which is not a coverage sack.  Both those QB's are mobile, don't take coverage sacks b/c they know if nobody is open they are supposed to take off.  Our excellent containment and what I think is kind of a spy in JoeKass on passing downs did a good job of limiting their runs.

Even the OLine in the OU game did a decent job moving Jones around in the pocket (particularly Calvin that night) when he wasn't throwing quick screens and stop routes.  OU seemed to have some strategy taking the hold instaed of allowing a sack (which was called 5-8 times iirc).

The fact of the matter is, you are not going to sack the QB if he is in shotgun throwing quick sideline patterns.  Furthermore, the other team won't throw those patterns if we are tackling them at the point of the catch.  If we do this well, they will be forced to look down field creating an opportunity for a sack, if not, there's no reason not to throw those balls all day long.  Tackling the WR's will be the difference in the passing game initially, then the pressure.

 

November 03, 2009, 02:24:04 PM
Reply #70

ksu_FAN

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We didn't have great pressure against aTm and cu but we confused their qb's into holding the ball too long which created sacks.

I don't remember in those games getting to the qb's very quickly.

This is absolutely false


Maybe when we were up 30 and pinning the ears back.

but yes, they were coverage sacks for the most part.

No they weren't.  CU's QB was running for his life every time he dropped back, and we dropped Johnson quickly about 6 times.  Most of the sacks and pressure was created with 4 down lineman and occasionally a LB.  The difference b/w a coverage sack and a "real sack" is impossibly unquantifiable (which is why they aren't kept as separate sacks even in the NFL) but I would say the pressure got there more often than not, in under 4 seconds which is not a coverage sack.  Both those QB's are mobile, don't take coverage sacks b/c they know if nobody is open they are supposed to take off.  Our excellent containment and what I think is kind of a spy in JoeKass on passing downs did a good job of limiting their runs.

Even the OLine in the OU game did a decent job moving Jones around in the pocket (particularly Calvin that night) when he wasn't throwing quick screens and stop routes.  OU seemed to have some strategy taking the hold instaed of allowing a sack (which was called 5-8 times iirc).

The fact of the matter is, you are not going to sack the QB if he is in shotgun throwing quick sideline patterns.  Furthermore, the other team won't throw those patterns if we are tackling them at the point of the catch.  If we do this well, they will be forced to look down field creating an opportunity for a sack, if not, there's no reason not to throw those balls all day long.  Tackling the WR's will be the difference in the passing game initially, then the pressure.

 

Good points.  I will say that comparing what we did vs aTm, Tech, and OU vs what we did vs CU is a bit of apples and oranges b/c of what they do schematically.

I do agree that the keys against the spread are tackling and IMO getting the offense/QB out of rhythm.  You've got to give some looks defensively that get him at least a bit confused and when you do bring pressure you've got to hit him.  Granted, sometimes you do that (see games from the past against Kinsbury and Huepel) and the guy still does enough to beat you, but that's rare.  Either way you've got to do something with your defense to get the offense uncomfortable b/c most of the spread offenses are rhythm offenses; let them get going and things get ugly; see Tech and OU 1st/4th quarters.  The good thing about ku is that they aren't strong in the running game, which a good spread team will use enough to make you pay, and that will only help us in gameplanning for them.

November 03, 2009, 02:44:17 PM
Reply #71

cireksu

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Getting a sack after a qb runs around for 5-6 seconds is a coverage sack and not the type of pressure that will consistantly get you sacks against a decent qb.

A&M and CU are the only teams we've had sacks against.

November 03, 2009, 03:30:16 PM
Reply #72

nfl13

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1) We don't get much pass rush.  VERY inexperienced in the secondary.  Good passing teams have picked us apart (Tech w/ Sheffield, and OU)

2) Reesing is mobile and he has a lot of chemistry with his receivers (prolly both on & off the field...eeeuuuwww!!)

3) Snyder's offense works against OU's defense because OU is NOT an assignment disciplined D rather they turn their players loose in a "controlled chaos" type fashion.  That is why w/ the duel threat running game and mobile OL(yes, our OL is mobile) we can create running lanes, cutbacks, etc.  ku is more fundamentally sound w/ regards to their own assignments. 

4) While I realize this game is HUGE for KSU given the past few years vs. ku, Snyder's return, etc, etc...this game may be even bigger for ku.  They had big expectations, they're wounded, cornered, and they need this one in the worst way.  They have the team that has been embarrassed this year from their season.

5) I hate to say it but this one smells like CU '01 after coming back from OU "moral victory" '01.  Yes, this ku team is nothing close to that CU '01 team but KSU '09 is nothing close to KSU '01, at least not defensively.

 :ohno:

What a pussy............CATS by 2 touchdowns!!   :dancin:

November 03, 2009, 04:16:26 PM
Reply #73

berford

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We need for something good to happen early! Like a fumble recovery on ku's second play of the game (a la aTm).

In many ways this will be more of a test for our secondary than OU or TT. We need to spy Meier and Briscoe.

 :ksu:
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. -- C. S. Lewis (quoted in the movie, The Usual Suspects)

November 03, 2009, 05:19:52 PM
Reply #74

kstatefreak42

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1. Your right, Ksu's pass defense against "spread pass" ( tech, ou , etc) hasnt been the greatest. But keep in mind that in the second half of the ou game kstate's defense did a decent job getting them back into the game.. If they keep Briscoe/meir to a mediocre game.. then i think kstate's running game will win the game!! :steadymobbin':