I do not like how KSU matches up with ku...

[nicname]

You don't have to get intense pressure on Reesing.  The most important thing is keeping him within the tackles.  That means having you DE's stay at home and not letting Reesing hit his quick passes to the sideline or his sprint out passes.  As long as you can get a little heat on him from the middle then you are ok.  Oh yeah, and recognize the shovel pass play to Sharp.

I think we get a pick 6.  

[The Manhatter]

We won't move the ball against ku like we did against OU because ku is more fundamentally sound?

Are you out of your freaking mind?

I understand the worry.  We lost to LaLa and barely beat UMass.  We should be worried about every game including this one.  We could get blown out by anyone.  But to claim ku's defense will be better against us than OU's?  That is beyond stupid.

I will repeat that, ku is more fundamentally sound defensively than OU from a standpt of being disciplined within their own scheme.

OU has success but they're primarily about turning their athletes loose and making plays...they can do that because they are experienced defensively and have the athletes.  But their scheme creates running lanes if you can pick them off...easier said than done.  OU's successful because they generally get penetration in the backfield and that leads to problems and they can get off blocks for receivers on short routes.  They have the recovery speed all over the field.

ku does not play this way...more conservative in their schemes.  The problem for them is that they don't have the difference makers all over the field like OU so if you can get the quicks in space with the ball things can happen against them.  Their defense has some deficiencies in experience compared to some recent years and I think that is what is hurting them.  The problem KSU faces with these guys is that we're very one dimensional and a disciplined, assignment sound front 7 w/ safety support (stuckey) can take away our bread and butter.

Football is about matchups and style of play....compare KSU's past success offensively vs. OU vis a vis some defenses like ku since '05.

[The Manhatter]

I noticed that several of you mentioned, "we'll get pressure because ku OL not very good this year"....etc, etc.

pfft.  We faced the worst OLines TTech and OU have put on the field in years and how many times did our guys hit their QB's up in their moustache? 

I fear ku will get the short-medium passing game going early and it will open up more of their offense. 

I hate this matchup. 

[kougar24]

Xs and Os are for bitches and ho's, Hatter. Bill has had this game freaking circled, man.

[Legore]

1) We don't get much pass rush.  VERY inexperienced in the secondary.  Good passing teams have picked us apart (Tech w/ Sheffield, and OU)

2) Reesing is mobile and he has a lot of chemistry with his receivers (prolly both on & off the field...eeeuuuwww!!)

3) Snyder's offense works against OU's defense because OU is NOT an assignment disciplined D rather they turn their players loose in a "controlled chaos" type fashion.  That is why w/ the duel threat running game and mobile OL(yes, our OL is mobile) we can create running lanes, cutbacks, etc.  ku is more fundamentally sound w/ regards to their own assignments. 

4) While I realize this game is HUGE for KSU given the past few years vs. ku, Snyder's return, etc, etc...this game may be even bigger for ku.  They had big expectations, they're wounded, cornered, and they need this one in the worst way.  They have the team that has been embarrassed this year from their season.

5) I hate to say it but this one smells like CU '01 after coming back from OU "moral victory" '01.  Yes, this ku team is nothing close to that CU '01 team but KSU '09 is nothing close to KSU '01, at least not defensively.

 

1.  Lack of pass rush has been true at times but has not always been true especially at home.  Even against OU I thought we got pressure at times and forced a number of holding calls.  Fitzgerald has really upped his game lately OU had Trent Williams a first round draft pick to match up on him ku has nothing even remotely close to that.  Calvin is playing welll too really impressed me vs. OU and I like the matchups Calvin will see vs. ku.   I think we can get pressure on ku similar to the A&M and CU games.  Good passing teams have picked us apart on the road for sure.  At home again it is a different story A&M is a good passing team by any measure and we were able to shut them down at home.  I don't expect us to shut down ku like we did A&M but I don't expect a repeat of Tech or OU either.  

2.  agree with this though Reesing is not as fast as people make him out to be.  Has good instincts and feels pressure well but for whatever reason he has not been doing as good a job at this lately.

3. don't agree with this at all.  OU is aggressive but they are sound.  ku is not as well coached as OU on defense and they are not nearly as experienced.  ku is are very inexperienced they have been plugging in freshman all over the field the last few weeks and moving back up o-lineman and WR's to key rolls on defense.  These kids have only been playing for the last couple of weeks and they'll see a totally different type of offense then what they've seen before.  

4.  I think this game will be big for both teams don't expect either side to look past it or gain an edge motivation wise.  

5.  01 CU wasn't a let down game they were just much better then we were that season.  I think the OU game will boost confidence but I don't think it is likely for this bunch to be over confident given what happened against ku last year.  

[The Manhatter]

1) We don't get much pass rush.  VERY inexperienced in the secondary.  Good passing teams have picked us apart (Tech w/ Sheffield, and OU)

2) Reesing is mobile and he has a lot of chemistry with his receivers (prolly both on & off the field...eeeuuuwww!!)

3) Snyder's offense works against OU's defense because OU is NOT an assignment disciplined D rather they turn their players loose in a "controlled chaos" type fashion.  That is why w/ the duel threat running game and mobile OL(yes, our OL is mobile) we can create running lanes, cutbacks, etc.  ku is more fundamentally sound w/ regards to their own assignments. 

4) While I realize this game is HUGE for KSU given the past few years vs. ku, Snyder's return, etc, etc...this game may be even bigger for ku.  They had big expectations, they're wounded, cornered, and they need this one in the worst way.  They have the team that has been embarrassed this year from their season.

5) I hate to say it but this one smells like CU '01 after coming back from OU "moral victory" '01.  Yes, this ku team is nothing close to that CU '01 team but KSU '09 is nothing close to KSU '01, at least not defensively.

 

3. don't agree with this at all.  OU is aggressive but they are sound.  ku is not as well coached as OU on defense and they are not nearly as experienced.  ku is are very inexperienced they have been plugging in freshman all over the field the last few weeks and moving back up o-lineman and WR's to key rolls on defense.  These kids have only been playing for the last couple of weeks and they'll see a totally different type of offense then what they've seen before.  

ku's problem is more about their secondary than it is upfront.  I think we will struggle to run the ball at them because of their front 7...I'm hopeful we get the passing game working early.  If that happens it would be very positive.

OU isn't necessarily better coached defensively, they have better, more experienced athletes and greater depth. 

[fatty fat fat]

Also, does anyone notice this clown just made a comparo of this years clown ku team to a 7-1 big 12 champion CU buffy squad? LMAO.

[fatty fat fat]

ku's rush "D"

Alejandro Robinson ISU = 27-152 (a-rob's season high)
Rodney Stewart CU = 24-108 (r-stew's conference high)
Chris Brown OU =  22-66
Baron Batch TTU = 17-123 (batch's season high)


this isn't the older ku d's that never seemed to allow a 100 yard rusher.

[Cem Blasoflas]

ku does not play this way...more conservative in their schemes.  The problem for them is that they don't have the difference makers all over the field like OU so if you can get the quicks in space with the ball things can happen against them.  Their defense has some deficiencies in experience compared to some recent years and I think that is what is hurting them.  The problem KSU faces with these guys is that we're very one dimensional and a disciplined, assignment sound front 7 w/ safety support (stuckey) can take away our bread and butter.

Football is about matchups and style of play....compare KSU's past success offensively vs. OU vis a vis some defenses like ku since '05.

The problem ku has is that it takes 11 of their guys to play an effective base defense while OU only needs about 8 or 9.

And I completely disagree that we are one dimensional.  In fact, I don't think we could be much more balanced.  Maybe the Ron Prince years got you accustomed to having zero running game and this just seems like an all ground attack.  We get almost the same number of yards running and passing and we run almost the same number of plays.

[MENSACat]

OU isn't necessarily better coached defensively, they have better, more experienced athletes and greater depth. 

Seriously?

Brent V. vs. Clint Bowen

You understand why Clint Bowen even has that job...right?

[CerpinTaxt]

1) We don't get much pass rush.  VERY inexperienced in the secondary.  Good passing teams have picked us apart (Tech w/ Sheffield, and OU)

2) Reesing is mobile and he has a lot of chemistry with his receivers (prolly both on & off the field...eeeuuuwww!!)

3) Snyder's offense works against OU's defense because OU is NOT an assignment disciplined D rather they turn their players loose in a "controlled chaos" type fashion.  That is why w/ the duel threat running game and mobile OL(yes, our OL is mobile) we can create running lanes, cutbacks, etc.  ku is more fundamentally sound w/ regards to their own assignments. 

4) While I realize this game is HUGE for KSU given the past few years vs. ku, Snyder's return, etc, etc...this game may be even bigger for ku.  They had big expectations, they're wounded, cornered, and they need this one in the worst way.  They have the team that has been embarrassed this year from their season.

5) I hate to say it but this one smells like CU '01 after coming back from OU "moral victory" '01.  Yes, this ku team is nothing close to that CU '01 team but KSU '09 is nothing close to KSU '01, at least not defensively.

 

3. don't agree with this at all.  OU is aggressive but they are sound.  ku is not as well coached as OU on defense and they are not nearly as experienced.  ku is are very inexperienced they have been plugging in freshman all over the field the last few weeks and moving back up o-lineman and WR's to key rolls on defense.  These kids have only been playing for the last couple of weeks and they'll see a totally different type of offense then what they've seen before.  

ku's problem is more about their secondary than it is upfront.  I think we will struggle to run the ball at them because of their front 7...I'm hopeful we get the passing game working early.  If that happens it would be very positive.

OU isn't necessarily better coached defensively, they have better, more experienced athletes and greater depth. 

Bowen>>>>Venables 

[~WabashRoll~]

I'm going to tremendously enjoy watching D Thomas piss pound ku's "fundamentally sound" defense.  I really am.

My only hope is that he's as effective as the vaunted Texas Tech rushing attack, the one on display in the second half last Saturday when Leach finally realized he had a QB that wouldn't start at Washburn and decided to simply cram it down ku's throats.

[catzacker]

The deciding factor in the game will be how KSU's defense handles ku's offense.  That is the match up.  ku's passing offense is going to kill our secondary.  Sure would be nice if Harold wasn't such a complete pussy and Moore wasn't playing like trash.  I think we'll be able to move the ball against ku on the ground (hopefully snyds comes in with a game plan that doesn't consist of getting DT his first touch down 21 points).  I agree with Hatter though.  Those cut back runs that DT had against OU won't be there against ku's D, imo.  It's going to be a tough game. 

[TheCatsMeow]

Really what its going to come down to is stopping sharp from doing what he did last year, and keeping opurum in check too.  We keep them passing and hopefully containing a lead into and past halftime will be huge.  We must sustain drives and convert third downs in the 1-7 yard ranges.  3rd downs will be huge.  Same with stoping them.

[LimestoneOutcropping]

Snyds always circled the ku game. He saved a bunch of sneaky stuff for this game.

We are going to freaking win.

he let alot out during the ou game.  i was shocked.  it was like snyds thought they were going to win or something.

There is a school of thought that says he let a lot out to give ku a lot to chew on this week.  If Bowen plays the safeties back to watch for Banks, DT should be able to find some room to do what he does.

But I am not much of an X's and O's guy.  More a Williy's and Moe's.

[TheCatsMeow]

If Thomas continually gets to the second level we will win this game. 

[cireksu]

We didn't have great pressure against aTm and cu but we confused their qb's into holding the ball too long which created sacks.

I don't remember in those games getting to the qb's very quickly.

[TheCatsMeow]

Cire, the reason why we got pressure was due to good coverage in the secondary.  Coverage sacks and pressure.  linemen will break Down and the same for the secondary.  They must stay responsible.

[cireksu]

yeah but we're not playing aTm's qb or CU's second start ever first on the road qb.

[ksu_FAN]

If you want to watch one stat for this game, watch YPC.  Against Big 12 teams ku has failed to reach 4.0 YPC in any game, and that was 3.5 in their win over ISU.  The Cats best 2 games (aTm and CU) we allowed less than 2 YPC.  Against ISU we gave up 5 YPC which usually gets you beat, but ISU's subpar passing game helped us overcome that.  Against OU it was 4.7 and obviously we couldn't overcome that.  Tech was over 7 YPC and they blew us out, ku also had over 7 YPC against us last year in blowing us out, and that with a team that averaged under 4 YPC on the year.  ku's opponents in Big 12 play this year have had more YPC in every game.

Meanwhile, the Cats have been over 4 YPC in 4 of 5 games, the only time under was ISU at 3.7.  Only that game and against Tech did our opponent have more YPC.  And our best 2 games at over 4.5 YPC were aTm and CU.  

To me, besides TOs and big plays, this will be the most interesting thing to watch.  ku will get some passing yards, likely around 300.  But if we can limit their run game and hold them to 3 YPC or so, we put ourselves into a great position to win the game.  Offensively we've got to be at 4 or better.  This will be one of the biggest keys in deciding who wins this game.

IMO I'd put the preference in this order:

1. Win the TO battle.
2. Win the big play battle (# of plays over 20 yards).
3. Win the YPC battle by at least 1 YPC.

All those seem managable given the style of play we have this year.  I'm most concerned about #2, we can't give ku a bunch of big plays through their passing game.  But I think we can offset that a bit with special teams; we should be able to get a few there and are more likely to than ku who has average (at best) special teams this year.  Also, one of things Snyder has emphasized this year has been TO margin, we are Top 20 nationally there averaging nearly 1 more TO per game than our opponents.

[Legend]

Tech and OU's offensive lines are not and day better thna ku's.  (2) ku's receivers aren't near as athletic as OU's receivers.  (3) Tech and OU had a much better running game. (4) Everyone and their mother has been able to blitz the hell out of the Toddler. 

[mavrick1821]

Great post KSU_Fan!

[catzacker]

Tech and OU's offensive lines are not and day better thna ku's.  (2) ku's receivers aren't near as athletic as OU's receivers.  (3) Tech and OU had a much better running game. (4) Everyone and their mother has been able to blitz the hell out of the Toddler. 

I don't think because ku's OL, WR's, and run game aren't as good as OU's and Tech is necessarily a reason to think that we have some advantage over them in these areas or that we match up with them.  Their run game vs. our rush defense is the only place that we match up relatively well especially considering that Mangino just refuses to learn how to effectively use a run game with his current team.  And we do not blitz all that much, and when we do, tyson makes the wrong read and allows chris brown to go for a near TD and moore gets hurt. 

[ksu_FAN]

I don't think because ku's OL, WR's, and run game aren't as good as OU's and Tech is necessarily a reason to think that we have some advantage over them in these areas or that we match up with them.  Their run game vs. our rush defense is the only place that we match up relatively well especially considering that Mangino just refuses to learn how to effectively use a run game with his current team.  And we do not blitz all that much, and when we do, tyson makes the wrong read and allows chris brown to go for a near TD and moore gets hurt. 

I don't think anyone would say we have an advantage here.  I just think they won't be able to get as many big plays against us as Tech and OU b/c of this.  No doubt, ku will put together some drives and move the ball.  But against their passing game, just keep them around 10  or less yards per completion.  ku's team this year will start to hurt you when they get to 12 or more yards per completion, but limit that and make them drive and they are very beatable. 

Will this be tough?  Yes, they've got experience players.  But with their lack of running game, average O-line, and playing on the road; I like our chances to do just that.  Plus, they are not a confident team right now, so we need to keep that lack of confidence in the back of their minds.  I understand that ku had just gotten drilled last year as well, but they came out and ripped us with their running game early, they quickly got confidence back, and the route was on.  I don't think we'll allow that to happen this year.  If ku beats us through the air, so beat it, but I don't think this staff will not allow ku to run all over us for 280 yards and 7.1 YPC. 

[catzacker]

_Fan, I agree.  I just don't think, from what I've seen of this pass defense, that we're going to keep their yards per completion down (especially the horrid tackling).  IMO, our pass defense has relied on (a) the other team dropping catchable balls - I've seen all year, even against TennTech, where receivers were just damn open and dropped the ball (b) turnovers - that's pretty much what did in A&M or allowed the game to get out of hand.  In general, I don't think that either (a) or (b) were caused by KSU's defense, just retarded (correctable) things for the opposing team.  That said, I think this game will kind of play out like '07's game....and if Sprinks turns the ball over that much in the first half, Snyds will know what to do with it (and Snyds prolly won't be throwing it up a TD with like a minute left in the half). 

I don't like to play teams that have underachieved because at some point they don't/won't (especially considering that KSU has, so far, "overachieved").  ku has had their head squarely in their ass since CU, so you either believe the trend will continue or that they'll snap out of it.  What does give me hope is that Mang could have won that game in '05 in Manhattan but chose to keep the ball in the hands of his QB's (who were struggling) instead of feedding it to McAnderson and playing defense...and he seems to want to do that again. 

[mavrick1821]

YPC=Yard's per Carry.  KSU fan is pointing out that controlling the ku run game is key to winning among other things.

[ksu_FAN]

YPC=Yard's per Carry.  KSU fan is pointing out that controlling the ku run game is key to winning among other things.

To be fair, in my last post I did address yards per completion as well.

I see your points 'zacker.  I think some of that is legit, and some probably b/c you have a pessimistic (understandable) view of the Cats.  I don't necessarily think ku has underachieved a ton, I just think a) ku probably isn't that great b/c b) they can't run the ball very well and c) they have an average O-line.  Additionally, I think people are figuring out ku's scheme more and more and finding ways to defend it.  Now that we have sound coaching, we can as well. 

Throw in that they have a pretty poor defense and I like our chances in this game.  I understand the match-up problems against our defense, especially the concerns with tackling.  I just think we'll have a sound scheme and be much better in space than we were at Tech.  OU I think was more getting "out-athleted" as compared to Tech, where we just didn't make plays.  ku will be more like Tech, and I like that its at home where we overall have played better defense.

And while your points about "dropped passes" and other teams "just playing bad" against us may have some merit, at some point you have to give your own team a bit of credit.  Granted, this is not a great defense, but the improvements to be an average defense have some legitimacy at this point over the course of 8 games.  This not a Prince/Tibs defense and I think we have shown we're not going to get tore up like that, unless we just don't show like we did in Lubbock.  I just don't see that happening. 

We could certainly lose this game, but it will be a 1 possession game if we do.  JMHO.

[mavrick1821]

Good points all the way around.  They key here is making ku one-dimensional, it is akin to only being forced to defend 1/2 the field instead of the whole thing.  I think the insight that controlling the ku run game is critical to other things like a successful pass rush, possible turnovers and constant 3rd and longs.

[ksu_FAN]

Good points all the way around.  They key here is making ku one-dimensional, it is akin to only being forced to defend 1/2 the field instead of the whole thing.  I think the insight that controlling the ku run game is critical to other things like a successful pass rush, possible turnovers and constant 3rd and longs.

Yes.  I imagine early we'll plan to keep as many as we can in the box, with some sort of zone coverage that keeps ku WRs underneath us.  Force them to put together a multi-play drive with their short passing game.  You've got to send some pressure just to get Reesing on the move and see if that injury is legit as well. 

Another important aspect is being physical early as well.  Probably most sickening thing the last few years is watching ku out-physical us in nearly every phase of the game.  Unexcusable.

[ew2x4]

This thread has had me on a roller coaster