key for being better than good

[catdude33]

We know the talent in the front court will be improved this season.  We know pullen and clemente are very good.  We know this is the most balanced in terms of depth and talent that we've had in a very long time.  We will be good.  But what will it take to be great?  Here's my #1 key this season to push us past the realm of goodness and into a 12-4, top 20 type season.

One of our incoming guards has to step up and make an impact.  Yes Denis and Pullen will be very good, but we desperately need a guard to step up and be something special off the bench.  We definitely need our incoming freshmen guards to step up and take every single one of CM's minutes away from him.  If Russell/McGruder/Irving are merely average freshmen in the Big XII we will still have a good season.  Maybe 10-6.  But if 1 or 2 of them turn out to be a difference maker off the bench we could looking at a special season.

Agree?  Thoughts?  What are your #1 keys for being better than just good?

[Pett]

Looked at Lindy's basketball season preview mag today while at the bookstore in the Union. He picks us to finish sixth in the Big XII.

Pullen and his season predictions would demolish that mother fracker....

[sys]

Agree?  Thoughts?  What are your #1 keys for being better than just good?

sutton.

[WildCatzPhreak]

I hope our big men are better at defense than they were in the past.

I like Sutton at the 3 a lot.  If he ever found a jumpshot, we'd be pretty hard to defend.

[jthutch]

I hope our big men are better at defense than they were in the past.

I like Sutton at the 3 a lot.  If he ever found a jumpshot, we'd be pretty hard to defend.

I'm not sure if sutton really needs a jump shot.  I think he just needs to me more aggressive to the hole.  Attack and dunk (no pansy ass layups if your with in 4 feet of the basket) or pass.  Leave the outside jump shots to McGruder (although I think  he will be good at attacking too) Pullen, and Clemente.  We have scoring threats at every position now more so than ever before.  Sutton is defense and slashing player. 

[ksu_FAN]

I agree on Sutton, but mainly I think it comes down to our bigs.  Namely, can one of the bigs (I'm thinking Kelly or Judge) become a guy that can be a consistent back to the basket, post up player.  We've simply got to have another option when games come down to possessions (and they will) besides a drive or chuck from Clemente/Pullen. 

[fatty fat fat]

hmmm...pretty sure i've started a thread about similar. gonna try to dig er up.

[fatty fat fat]

Agree?  Thoughts?  What are your #1 keys for being better than just good?

sutton.

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=41959.0

[pissclams]

k-state fan's love affair with clemente is puzzling to me.  he's not the type of player you want to rely on or build a team around.  
take a look at these stats from last year and tell me what it is that has you so impressed-
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=3376

i just don't see it.  he's streaky and is the farthest thing from a go-to guy that there could be.  every team needs a go-to player, he isn't one and will never be one.

fun to watch?  sure, sometimes - when he's dropping dimes from midcourt and they happen to be falling, otherwise, not so much.

he's not big enough to create his own shot, doesn't shoot well enough to even be counted on to drop them when he's open.

[catdude33]

Sutton will never be able to shoot.  Just like Hoskins was never able to shoot.  And that's ok as long as he attacks the rim.  My 'key' is better.

[pissclams]

key to being better:  the 4 and the 5 need to contribute on both ends of the floor.  that's it.
samuels hopefully bulked up in the off season to match his athleticsm.  CK needs to play like an experienced post player.
judge is a wildcard, our site has him listed at 248lbs, can he be that thick?  i always thought he was wirey, he'll need to learn to play with his back to the basket and gain experience at the d1 level.  with our undersized guards we can't have 4 players facing the basket on offense.

[fatty fat fat]

piss, what is your bball background. pretty solid? love your anally.

[pissclams]

piss, what is your bball background. pretty solid? love your anally.

thanks trips, i would say my bball background is very reliable.   

[ksu_FAN]

k-state fan's love affair with clemente is puzzling to me.  he's not the type of player you want to rely on or build a team around.  
take a look at these stats from last year and tell me what it is that has you so impressed-
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=3376

Top 15 in scoring, FG%, FT%, A:TO ratio, and assists?  



He needs to get better/more consistent at shooting from behind the arc, controlling emotions, and he can't finish as inconsistenly as he did last year, but kid is a pretty damn good player.

[Pete]

Agree?  Thoughts?  What are your #1 keys for being better than just good?

sutton.

Forgot about something that Frank talked about at the KC banquet...

Frank was asked about Dom, and shared the following story, which I am sure I'll butcher...

Dom played the 5 and 4 in HS, and that he's progressing very well given that he's now a 2/3 for the first time ever.

Apparently the coach of the international team that Dom and Jake played on told Frank that our guys were the hardest working and most coach-able guys on the team.  That Dom was a force and that he was the focus of other teams. As the story goes, Dom was averaging 6-7 assist a game and Figger was geeked about it (Frank went on and on about how "Figgs" is the numbers guy on the staff).  Tell's Frank about this...Frank ask Dom why he isn't doing that for us...Dom says because he's getting double-trippled teamed on the international team "against grown men" and so he has to pass the ball.  

It had to be in the delivery, because then laughter errupt....or I missed something in the midst of the anecdote while I was thinking "If Dom can actually start creating his own shot and then make that shot, we are going to be really, really fracking good this year...hey, I have an erection now, wow!"

Probably fouled it all up, but that's what I got on that.  

[doom]

k-state fan's love affair with clemente is puzzling to me.  he's not the type of player you want to rely on or build a team around. 
take a look at these stats from last year and tell me what it is that has you so impressed-
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=3376

Top 15 in scoring, FG%, FT%, A:TO ratio, and assists? 



He needs to get better/more consistent at shooting from behind the arc, controlling emotions, and he can't finish as inconsistenly as he did last year, but kid is a pretty damn good player.

I love his EMAWness.   

Agree?  Thoughts?  What are your #1 keys for being better than just good?

sutton.

Forgot about something that Frank talked about at the KC banquet...

Frank was asked about Dom, and shared the following story, which I am sure I'll butcher...

Dom played the 5 and 4 in HS, and that he's progressing very well given that he's now a 2/3 for the first time ever.

Apparently the coach of the international team that Dom and Jake played on told Frank that our guys were the hardest working and most coach-able guys on the team.  That Dom was a force and that he was the focus of other teams. As the story goes, Dom was averaging 6-7 assist a game and Figger was geeked about it (Frank went on and on about how "Figgs" is the numbers guy on the staff).  Tell's Frank about this...Frank ask Dom why he isn't doing that for us...Dom says because he's getting double-trippled teamed on the international team "against grown men" and so he has to pass the ball. 

It had to be in the delivery, because then laughter errupt....or I missed something in the midst of the anecdote while I was thinking "If Dom can actually start creating his own shot and then make that shot, we are going to be really, really fracking good this year...hey, I have an erection now, wow!"

Probably fouled it all up, but that's what I got on that.   

Fantastic story even if you did butcher it. 

[sys]

Frank went on and on about how "Figgs" is the numbers guy on the staff.

i figgered as much.


agree w. 'clams on clemente being overrated by pretty much everyone ('cept clams, me and one guy on ouhoops  ).  he's not an efficient player.  hopefully his role on the team is reduced.  if not, kstate isn't going to be as improved as everyone wants to predict.

agree w. '33 that sutton isn't likely to be dramatically improved.  that's why kstate is unlikely to be better than good.

agree w. 'verybody that the bigs need to be improved on both ends of the court.  but, that is just the step to be good, rather than mediocre.  thread is about being better than good.

[michigancat]

I think Clemente is appropriately rated at second team All Big 12.

[yosh]

NBA players.  If we are an elite team this year, we'll have a player or two that could be taken in the next draft. 

All the other keys that have been mentioned, are the keys to being good.  Elite level teams have pros.  At this point, I don't think we have any, though we do have some players with pro upside.  Would be a huge statement about Frank's ability to develop if we had a player drafted (or projected to be drafted) this year.

[catzacker]

who overrates Clemente?  He's a good Big 12 point guard, he just needs to reduce his turnovers.  But that doesn't take away from him being good. 

We're going to be a good, not great team because we have good, not great talent.  I mean, sure, if Sutton somehow finds some type of range (which he hasn't) then we could be above good AND....if Curtis Kelly plays up to his talent (which he hasn't) ....AND if Judge and McGruder provide quality play (which, obviously they haven't shown they can yet) .....AND if Jake becomes more consistent (which he hasn't) then we could become an above good team......also, if I won the lottery I'd be rich. 

[pissclams]

k-state fan's love affair with clemente is puzzling to me.  he's not the type of player you want to rely on or build a team around. 
take a look at these stats from last year and tell me what it is that has you so impressed-
http://www.big12sports.com/ViewContent.dbml?&DB_OEM_ID=10410&CONTENT_ID=3376

Top 15 in scoring, FG%, FT%, A:TO ratio, and assists? 



He needs to get better/more consistent at shooting from behind the arc, controlling emotions, and he can't finish as inconsistenly as he did last year, but kid is a pretty damn good player.

top 15 is good, it's not great.  fans here overrate him, as if our back court is so great. it's not.  he's our go-to guy, our #1 offensive threat.  he needs size, the ability to create his own shot, and the ability to consistently knock down the open jumper when we run a play for him, he doesn't have any of those things.

on the flip side, i love jake.

I think Clemente is appropriately rated at second team All Big 12.

i don't know if i agree.  if you were asked who the 2nd best 2 guard in the b12 is, would you say Denis?  i realize that's now how the all-big 12 teams are assembled but that's how i like to look at it. 

[KITNfury]

agree with a lot of the points made here. It's not impossible with the talent we have, but sometimes teams just have things click for them, like MU last year. I don't think there's any real hope of that, but you never know when teams just kind of "get it" or "have it" out of nowhere. Like said though, that'd be the sports equivalent of winning the lottery.

[Pett]

love your anally.

No homo?

[pissclams]

who overrates Clemente?  He's a good Big 12 point guard, he just needs to reduce his turnovers.  But that doesn't take away from him being good. 

We're going to be a good, not great team because we have good, not great talent.  I mean, sure, if Sutton somehow finds some type of range (which he hasn't) then we could be above good AND....if Curtis Kelly plays up to his talent (which he hasn't) ....AND if Judge and McGruder provide quality play (which, obviously they haven't shown they can yet) .....AND if Jake becomes more consistent (which he hasn't) then we could become an above good team......also, if I won the lottery I'd be rich. 

denis doesn't play point 

[kcchiefdav]

I think 'clams is being too hard on Denis. I think people are forgetting that Denis has to play kind of reckless because of the people who are around him. Remember who we had playing the 4 and 5 last year. DK and LC. DK scored 9 pts per game and got 6 boards per game last year because teams were so worried about stopping Denis and Pullen. I'm expecting a more controlled game out of our guards this year because I'm expecting that we'll have some offensive threat inside the paint.

[kcchiefdav]

Oh, and my key for us being a good team this year...how about we start making some free throws before February this year.

[catzacker]

who overrates Clemente?  He's a good Big 12 point guard, he just needs to reduce his turnovers.  But that doesn't take away from him being good. 

We're going to be a good, not great team because we have good, not great talent.  I mean, sure, if Sutton somehow finds some type of range (which he hasn't) then we could be above good AND....if Curtis Kelly plays up to his talent (which he hasn't) ....AND if Judge and McGruder provide quality play (which, obviously they haven't shown they can yet) .....AND if Jake becomes more consistent (which he hasn't) then we could become an above good team......also, if I won the lottery I'd be rich. 

denis doesn't play point 

ball bringer-uppper?

[pissclams]

who overrates Clemente?  He's a good Big 12 point guard, he just needs to reduce his turnovers.  But that doesn't take away from him being good. 

We're going to be a good, not great team because we have good, not great talent.  I mean, sure, if Sutton somehow finds some type of range (which he hasn't) then we could be above good AND....if Curtis Kelly plays up to his talent (which he hasn't) ....AND if Judge and McGruder provide quality play (which, obviously they haven't shown they can yet) .....AND if Jake becomes more consistent (which he hasn't) then we could become an above good team......also, if I won the lottery I'd be rich. 

denis doesn't play point 

ball bringer-uppper?

[yosh]

Dennis is a good player.  However, PC is right when he says that: A. he can't carry the team to greatness  and B. If we're going to be a lot better this year, Denis has to carry a lower % of the scoring load.  

I'd love to see Denis get more steals as well.  For a small quick guy, he should pick a lot more pockets.

[pissclams]

i'm in no way saying Denis isn't a good player, he is.  my biggest point is that he's also very limited in what he can contribute to the team and a lot of posters here don't seem to realize that.