Prince on the shotgun

[michigancat]

Really the only significant thing that came out of the "presser". 

The shotgun can be a valuable thing. One thing is that the defense knows where you are, and you have to keep your eye on the snap instead of looking and reading the defense. There are a lot of people that make their living in the shotgun offense, but some people would prefer to have the quarterback keeping his eye on the defense. At our point in development, who is snapping and receiving that snap is a factor, and I’m trying to reduce the variables more than anything to improve play.

This was kind of odd, too:

Most drives will statistically have one play of 20 or more yards somewhere in there.

Huh?


http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3065&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=653548

[coitus]

i translate those comments this way:

- if thomas barnett were still on the team, we'd have the shotgun in play

- if you want to get into the endzone on offense, you need to break a big play at somepoint

[michigancat]

- if you want to get into the endzone on offense, you need to break a big play at somepoint

Oh, I guess he could have meant scoring drives.

[catzacker]

At our point in development, who is snapping and receiving that snap is a factor, and I’m trying to reduce the variables more than anything to improve play.

 

Apparently we were never in shotgun last year, also if we were in shotgun every single snap never got to the QB, and finally Freeman has never been in the shotgun in HS.

 I know it's Rooker back there instead of Bedore, but we weren't in shotgun with Bedore under center this year and he was snapping them last year.  That is such a jackass excuse.  I can buy the idea that the QB has more time to read the defense when he's under center, but with the way our o-line is blocking, Freeman isn't reading coverages, he's reading the jersey numbers of the incoming defensive line. 

[WILDCAT NATION]

This is like a bad mix of Dick Vermeil and Herman Edwards...without the wins of Vermeil.

How many scoring drives has this offense been on in Big 12 play...(TD's)?

[michigancat]

This is like a bad mix of Dick Vermeil and Herman Edwards...without the wins of Vermeil.

How many scoring drives has this offense been on in Big 12 play...(TD's)?

2

[cireksu]

Shotgun would not help with out line being so bad.  You think they are pinning their ears back now?  wait and see what happens when we go to shotgun.  you can get rid of the ball faster under center than you can in a shot gun. 

[WILDCAT NATION]

Why, if our coach is some sort of OL guru, does the OL completely suck ass?

That's my question.

Square peg, round hole?

[michigancat]

Why, if our coach is some sort of OL guru, does the OL completely suck ass?

That's my question.

Square peg, round hole?

I can understand the "square peg, round hole" theory with new run blocking schemes.  It's the pass protection that boggles the mind.  What can they be doing with pass protection that is significantly new and/or confusing?

[ksu_FAN]

The pass protection issues are magnified by a lack of a running game.  Teams are able to put only 7 in the box to stop our running game, then they can send blitzes (and keep them disguized) from anywhere which is magnified by having an inexperienced QB.  Plus the down and distance situations (often 3rd and long) makes it easier on the defense also.  Throw in the inexperience we now have up front (outside Wafford, though he is playing a new position) and its easy to see why we are struggling.

I can see the frustration with no shotgun from the fans, but I can also buy Prince's explanation.  IMO the use of the shotgun is not keeping this offense from scoring 20 PPG.  Until we adjust to and master our run block schemes, mix more man schemes like we've tried to do the past two games (worked well vs OSU, not so well vs NU), or get some of our key players (Jordy Nelson for one) healthy then this offense is going to struggle.

This only leads me back to what IMO is an easier way to force your hand on defense by using variations of formation and shifting.  If there is anything that has been disappointing about this offense (besides our running game) it is that.

[michigancat]

IMO the use of the shotgun is not keeping this offense from scoring 20 PPG.

It's the lack of QB sneaks, right?

This only leads me back to what IMO is an easier way to force your hand on defense by using variations of formation and shifting.  If there is anything that has been disappointing about this offense (besides our running game) it is that.

I agree...it's like we're going to line up and man up against everyone.  An odd "pride" thing, it seems like to me.

[WILDCAT NATION]

FAN, that might be the most disappointing thing...I've seen Jr. High Running schemes that are more imaginative.

[ksu_FAN]

It might be partly a pride thing, but I think its more than that.  Its could be this staff oversimplifying, or it could be not getting across/taught to kids what's expected, or it could be that these kids simply can't execute it, or it could be that the staff is starting to doubt what they brought from Indy and is going back to what they've (Prince) has done in the past, so the kids are even more confused.  I also think we tried the "win now with older kids approach" early, and when it was obvious it was going to fail, we went with more youth.  Not a complete youth movement (see Wafford, Moreira, Figurs) but at least a partial one as we saw older kids that in the long run weren't going to help us.

I will say I was encouraged by the way we mixed our running game (even if we were fairly simply by formation) against OSU.  I think we tried to do the same vs NU, but it just didn't work and we didn't really have an answer (NU had seen it so, they could gameplan for it, plus they are pretty solid up front). 

I would like to see us come out early and either use multiple shifting or 3 wide for a series vs MU, then come back with double tight run game stuff. 

[michigancat]

From a GREAT NY Times article on Mike Leach:

The first play Leach called against Texas A.&M. was the first play on Cody Hodges's wrist. That wrist held a mere 23 ordinary plays, 9 red-zone plays (for situations inside an opponent's 20-yard line), 6 goal-line plays, 2 2-point-conversion plays and 5 trick plays. "There's two ways to make it more complex for the defense," Leach says. "One is to have a whole bunch of different plays, but that's no good because then the offense experiences as much complexity as the defense. Another is a small number of plays and run it out of lots of different formations." Leach prefers new formations. "That way, you don't have to teach a guy a new thing to do," he says. "You just have to teach him new places to stand." Texas Tech's offense has no playbook; Cody Hodges's wrist and Mike Leach's back pocket hold the only formal written records of what is widely regarded as one of the most intricate offenses ever to take a football field. The plays change too often, in response to the defense and the talents of the players on hand, to bother recording them.

It's worth the read just for the "Mike's Pirates" reference, but his philosophy is very interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/04/magazine/04coach.html?ei=5088&en=d9f46209dc95fc9d&ex=1291352400&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

[catzacker]

This only leads me back to what IMO is an easier way to force your hand on defense by using variations of formation and shifting.  If there is anything that has been disappointing about this offense (besides our running game) it is that.

I agree...it's like we're going to line up and man up against everyone.  An odd "pride" thing, it seems like to me.

I thought, after watching the OSU game, that the coaching staff had begun the process of trying to "scheme" through some of its weaknesses as they went to more 2 TE sets and used the fullback/h-back more....only to find out that it was a one-trick pony.  And our defense, while good, is not good enought go "Chicago Bears" on every team, especially considering the amount of rushing yards we give up to competent rushing teams.  

[pissclams]

FAN, that might be the most disappointing thing...I've seen Jr. High Running schemes that are more imaginative.

I've seen college teams line up with 3rd string walk on QB's and no WR's in formation and win on the road, so the &@#% what.

[ksu_FAN]

I agree completely with Leach's philosophy.  Run several plays very well, but be able to do them out of a bunch of formations both in the running and passing game.  Snyder formationed the heck out of teams as well, though he also had quite a bit of offense too. 

[WILDCAT NATION]

Kind of like the simpletons that thought Snyder's offense was boring because all he ever did was run up the gut with the power or the QB run game...

Same play...run and blocked many different ways.

Has KSU run a single misdirection play?  Pulled a guard to get an advantage?  Anything?

I'd love to see something like the Giants offense, if he insists on going pro.

[ksu_FAN]

Has KSU run a single misdirection play?  Pulled a guard to get an advantage?  Anything?

Against OSU, yes, with success at times.  Against NU, I think we tried but gave up on it early.

[coitus]

   

^^^^^^^^^^^^

anyone that watches this offensive line and thinks that increased complexity is the key to success

[catzacker]

ksu_Fan,
would cutting the line splits down help out?  ku had cut down their line splits in their game against NU after the half and it seemed to help out their pass protection.  I tried to notice our line splits against NU, they seemed like normal splits, not too wide, not too tight.  

[ksu_FAN]

It might, just depends on the protection.  I think opponents are consistently getting more numbers than we have in passing situations right now and that will continue until Freeman consistently burns them.

[Racquetball_Ninja]

Has anyone ever stopped to think that maybe... just maybe this O-LINE IS TOO F'ING SMALL AND WEAK TO BLOCK ANYBODY THAT'S WORTH A DAMN!?!?!? 

[cireksu]

The only thing that will  help the line is more experience.  Stan webber has said and I agree that there are times on running plays when our linemen get in great position but then fail to find someone to block in open field.  That will come with experience.  Firing off the ball as a unit, experience.  If we run the ball well this weekend like I think we can after ok st.  I will feel much better, I think we will be able to run on avg defensive fronts but we absolutely can't get anything against the decent ones like NU.

[Dan Rydell]

Kind of like the simpletons that thought Snyder's offense was boring because all he ever did was run up the gut with the power or the QB run game...

Same play...run and blocked many different ways.

No freakin' kidding.  Watch those highlight films from 2003...you'll see strong, weak, all kinds of I, and various shotgun formations, just to run the option and dives.

Heck, one of my most effective plays on NCAA on PS2 is the halfback dive, because my HB runs it well and now I run it out of about 8 different formations.

[mjrod]

Look at it from this angle:

Snyder had the same play in various formations.   He also has formations that you can run several different plays from.

It's called The Snyder Matrix.

[sam adams]

This is an excellent thread, good job fellas.

I sure do miss offensive touchdowns.  They were neato.

[JPksu]

I suppose the QB sneak is too complicated too. 

I'm sorry but Prince is officially on the clown-list until he proves otherwise...