should ku quit trying if they can't win the north this year?

[sonofdaxjones]

Mangino's role as "recruiting coordinator" at K-State may be one of the most overrated discussion points in college football history.

It's hilarious that you can't just accept that until further notice 2007 was a fluke . . . the very next season 4-4 in the Big 12 . . . and I am not, nor is anybody saying that ku should have "dominated" the Big 12 at any time.   We all know that ku pulls off a fluke season now and again . . . like 2007 for example.

If ku goes 7-1 in conference this year, we'll know that 2007 wasn't a fluke.

[CrimsonBlue]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

[fatty fat fat]

missouri being a complete f*cking powerhouse kills us. 

ku being a complete non-player in the big 12 doesn't even show up on the radar.

[LimestoneOutcropping]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

[CrimsonBlue]

missouri being a complete f*cking powerhouse kills us. 

ku being a complete non-player in the big 12 doesn't even show up on the radar.

1.  40-37



2.  52-21 >>>>  41-24

3.  Mizzou is going to be down next season


Anything else?

[CrimsonBlue]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

So if ku had Aqib Talib (1st team All-American) and Anthony Collins (2nd-team All-American) back for '08, they would have still been mediocre? 

[cireksu]

5-3 will win the north easily  6-2 is a slam dunk.

[LimestoneOutcropping]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

So if ku had Aqib Talib (1st team All-American) and Anthony Collins (2nd-team All-American) back for '08, they would have still been mediocre? 

fluke actually played some good teams in 08 so, in a word, yes. 

[catdude33]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

So if ku had Aqib Talib (1st team All-American) and Anthony Collins (2nd-team All-American) back for '08, they would have still been mediocre? 

Every game you lost in 2008, with the exception of a terrible USF team, was by double digits.  Stop pretending like you were a couple players away from being great.  You were very mediocre.

[CrimsonBlue]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

So if ku had Aqib Talib (1st team All-American) and Anthony Collins (2nd-team All-American) back for '08, they would have still been mediocre? 

fluke actually played some good teams in 08 so, in a word, yes. 

Okay, then.  I tend to disagree with you.  A 1st team All-American, top 20 NFL draft pick at cornerback along with a 2nd team All-American, 3rd round NFL draft pick at o-tackle would make a bit of a difference, IMO.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you. 

How much did 11 straight kill you?  How much did our Big 12 Football Championship kill you?  From your constant presence on this board, I would have to say a great deal.  You are trying to get in some smack talk now while you still can.  Smart move on your part.  Enjoy.

Bill's back, bitch.   

[sonofdaxjones]

ku built up enough talent to have their "once a decade" Fluke Season . . . then promptly lost key coaches and key talent, and fell back to .500 in conference.   But in the era of 4 ooc games, Mangino cream puff scheduling and 52 bowls ku did just enough to get into a bowl against a Minnesota team in the midst of a complete meltdown (losers of 5 straight to end the season).

Again, this is the year that ku gets to prove that 2007 wasn't a fluke, just embrace the reality Captain Meltdown.

[CrimsonBlue]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

So if ku had Aqib Talib (1st team All-American) and Anthony Collins (2nd-team All-American) back for '08, they would have still been mediocre? 

fluke actually played some good teams in 08 so, in a word, yes. 

Okay, then.  I tend to disagree with you.  A 1st team All-American, top 20 NFL draft pick at cornerback along with a 2nd team All-American, 3rd round NFL draft pick at o-tackle would make a bit of a difference, IMO.

In 2002 we lost 4 draft picks (1 in the top 5 and 4 others). From that team 9 players made NFL rosters or practice squads. That team was 11-2. The next year(2003) we returned to win the Big 12 and go to the Fiesta Bowl. That will never happen with uk football...We know it, you know it...Quit all the whining about losing two players being the reason why you  couldn't repeat. 

Seriously?  You can't be that dense.  K-State's football program in' 03 was light years ahead of where ku was at in '07.  Snyder was in his 14th year of building a dominant football program and establishing plenty of depth on both sides of the ball.  ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 Championships.  We are the favorite to win the North in '09 after winning 20 games in two seasons. ku just went to back-to-back bowls for the first time in school history and was one game away from playing in the Big 12 title last season.  '08 wasn't a bad year at all.  I always find it ironic that a fan of a program which is regarded as one of the worst in D-1 football history, a program that was the first in D-1 to reach 500 losses, is telling a fan of another school that their program can't do something. 

[MOKSUAZ]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

So if ku had Aqib Talib (1st team All-American) and Anthony Collins (2nd-team All-American) back for '08, they would have still been mediocre? 

fluke actually played some good teams in 08 so, in a word, yes. 

Okay, then.  I tend to disagree with you.  A 1st team All-American, top 20 NFL draft pick at cornerback along with a 2nd team All-American, 3rd round NFL draft pick at o-tackle would make a bit of a difference, IMO.

In 2002 we lost 4 draft picks (1 in the top 5 and 4 others). From that team 9 players made NFL rosters or practice squads. That team was 11-2. The next year(2003) we returned to win the Big 12 and go to the Fiesta Bowl. That will never happen with uk football...We know it, you know it...Quit all the whining about losing two players being the reason why you  couldn't repeat. 

Seriously?  You can't be that dense.  K-State's football program in' 03 was light years ahead of where ku was at in '07.  1. Snyder was in his 14th year of building a dominant football program and establishing plenty of depth on both sides of the ball.  2. ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 Championships.  We are the favorite to win the North in '09 after 3. winning 20 games in two seasons. ku just went to back-to-back bowls for the first time in school history and were one game away from playing in the Big 12 title last season.  '08 wasn't a bad year at all.  I always find it ironic that a fan of a program which is regarded as one of the worst in D-1 football history, a program that was the first in D-1 to reach 500 losses, is telling a fan of another school that their program can't do something. 

1. so mangino is light years behind gary pinkel (pinkel hired in '01, mangino in '02)?  mizzou didn't experience the dropoff kansas did after losing Rucker and Will Franklin who were both drafted.  hell, KSU lost almost all of our receiving stats from J. Nelson and we only had 200 less receiving yards in '08.

2. so you weren't in the process of winning big 12 championships before this season?  please tell the '07 team they sucked and Talib and Collins they wouldn't have made a difference in '08. 

3. please separate the two seasons b/c the difference in 4 wins between the two kinda scews the numbers a bit. 

[CrimsonBlue]

1.  No.  ku lost five guys to the NFL, including a top 20 overall draft pick and a 2nd-team All-American, while Mizzou lost Rucker and Franklin.  You've got to be kidding me. 

2.  "ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 championships" - meaning ku has only been competing for Big 12 titles recently.  That includes '07.

3.  20 wins in two seasons, whether you like it or not.

[JTKSU]

1.  No.  ku lost five guys to the NFL, including a top 20 overall draft pick and a 2nd-team All-American, while Mizzou lost Rucker and Franklin.  You've got to be kidding me. 

2.  "ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 championships" - meaning ku has only been competing for Big 12 titles recently.  That includes '07.

3.  20 wins in two seasons, whether you like it or not.

That would have been down years during the DoD.  But if it makes you feel better, feel free to keep bragging about that.

[cireksu]

1.  No.  ku lost five guys to the NFL, including a top 20 overall draft pick and a 2nd-team All-American, while Mizzou lost Rucker and Franklin.  You've got to be kidding me. 

2.  "ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 championships" - meaning ku has only been competing for Big 12 titles recently.  That includes '07.

3.  20 wins in two seasons, whether you like it or not.

Big 12 championships?  LOL

Big north championship?  maybe.

[JTKSU]

if not this year, when? 

Absolutely they should fold the football program.  They should move those resources to a sport that they actually have a chance winning a Big 12 title in.  Like hacky sack.  The uk guys just love that crap.

[CrimsonBlue]

1.  No.  ku lost five guys to the NFL, including a top 20 overall draft pick and a 2nd-team All-American, while Mizzou lost Rucker and Franklin.  You've got to be kidding me. 

2.  "ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 championships" - meaning ku has only been competing for Big 12 titles recently.  That includes '07.

3.  20 wins in two seasons, whether you like it or not.

Big 12 championships?  LOL

Big north championship?  maybe.

Isn't that the same thing pretty much?  If you can make it to the Big 12 title game, you never know what can happen.  Look at K-State/Oklahoma 2003. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Somebody get another stringer . . .

[fatty fat fat]

Isn't that the same thing pretty much?  If you can make it to the Big 12 title game, you never know what can happen.  Look at K-State/Oklahoma 2003.

lol. it doesn't work that way. you have to have an elite team to beat the south rep. ku's greatest team of all time, that was clocked by missouri, saw that same missouri team get clocked by the south rep one week later in the ccg.

[JTKSU]

1.  No.  ku lost five guys to the NFL, including a top 20 overall draft pick and a 2nd-team All-American, while Mizzou lost Rucker and Franklin.  You've got to be kidding me. 

2.  "ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 championships" - meaning ku has only been competing for Big 12 titles recently.  That includes '07.

3.  20 wins in two seasons, whether you like it or not.

Big 12 championships?  LOL

Big north championship?  maybe.

Isn't that the same thing pretty much?  If you can make it to the Big 12 title game, you never know what can happen.  Look at K-State/Oklahoma 2003. 

You seriously trying to say that a north division championship is the same as a conference championship?  I guess you guys were like co-co- Big 12 champions then.

[CrimsonBlue]

Fatty:  K-State in '03 was a very good team, but you weren't great.  Oklahoma was undefeated going into that game and still played in the national title.  They were loaded that year.  It was quite an upset, especially given the way K-State completely dominated.  Oklahoma was shell-shocked.  All I'm saying is that you never know what can happen on any given night.


JT:  No, that's not what I'm saying at all.  What I'm saying is that if you compete for the North, you compete for the Big 12.  If you win the North, you play in the Big 12 championship. 

[fatty fat fat]

Fatty:  K-State in '03 was a very good team, but you weren't great.  Oklahoma was undefeated going into that game and still played in the national title.  They were loaded that year.  It was quite an upset, especially given the way K-State completely dominated.  Oklahoma was shell-shocked.  All I'm saying is that you never know what can happen on any given night.

It doesn't work that way. Look at the last 5 years in the big 12 title game. The average MOV for the south has been 37 points. The better team pretty much always wins. 1996 was the only real fluke, (that includes aTm beating us, that was a hell of a team as much as we like to ignore that fact)


ku isn't close to winning the big 12. You actually needs some good players on defense. I'm sorry, dude.

[LimestoneOutcropping]

You're not making any sense at all, as usual.  The '07 season and '08 season featured two different teams with different personnel and a different schedule.  Just admit that the 12-1 Orange Bowl season is still killing you.  Just admit that the fact ku is the favorite to win the North in '09 is already killing you.  TIA.

What on earth does different personnel have to do with anything?  07 was a good season against weak competition in which you didn't play for Big XII championship and '08 was mediocre. 

So if ku had Aqib Talib (1st team All-American) and Anthony Collins (2nd-team All-American) back for '08, they would have still been mediocre? 

fluke actually played some good teams in 08 so, in a word, yes. 

Okay, then.  I tend to disagree with you.  A 1st team All-American, top 20 NFL draft pick at cornerback along with a 2nd team All-American, 3rd round NFL draft pick at o-tackle would make a bit of a difference, IMO.

Everyone in the conference looses players.  If you want to be considered not a fluke who played a horrific schedule, build of a program to stay at that level and not fall back to a .500 team the minute you experience some attrition.

[PowercatPat]

1.  No.  ku lost five guys to the NFL, including a top 20 overall draft pick and a 2nd-team All-American, while Mizzou lost Rucker and Franklin.  You've got to be kidding me. 

2.  "ku is just now beginning the process of contending for Big 12 championships" - meaning ku has only been competing for Big 12 titles recently.  That includes '07.

3.  20 wins in two seasons, whether you like it or not.

And how many wins of those 20 wins were against teams that finished the season ranked? 2, BMW. And how many of those wins were against non BCS schools? 7  

[JTKSU]

Fatty:  K-State in '03 was a very good team, but you weren't great.  Oklahoma was undefeated going into that game and still played in the national title.  They were loaded that year.  It was quite an upset, especially given the way K-State completely dominated.  Oklahoma was shell-shocked.  All I'm saying is that you never know what can happen on any given night.


JT:  No, that's not what I'm saying at all.  What I'm saying is that if you compete for the North, you compete for the Big 12.  If you win the North, you play in the Big 12 championship. 

So, we dominated a great team, yet we were only a good team?  If that 2003 team was only good, then I never want to hear you refer to uk's 2007 team as anything but "decent."  Unless of course, somehow in your crazy twisted view, you think that team was better than our Big 12 championship team.  Guess I now understand how you think a co-division championship is "pretty much the same" as an actual conference championship.

[Pett]

You actually needs some good players on defense. I'm sorry, dude.

ku wasn't close to winning the Big XII in '08 and they lost their LB trio & Laptad. <---


You guys had your chance last year and blew it.

[jkeys1313]

Isn't that the same thing pretty much?  If you can make it to the Big 12 title game, you never know what can happen.  Look at K-State/Oklahoma 2003.

lol. it doesn't work that way. you have to have an elite team to beat the south rep. ku's greatest team of all time, that was clocked by missouri, saw that same missouri team get clocked by the south rep one week later in the ccg.

VFT.  Luck had nothing to do w/ 2003...elite talent and planning had everything to do with it.  LOL at the Bentard in this stretch of posts. 

[CrimsonBlue]

Fatty:  The South is loaded.  I realize that.  Again, all I'm saying is that on any given night, an upset can happen.  Look at Colorado upsetting Oklahoma in Boulder a couple years ago.  As for the rest of your post, ku has a 1st team All Big 12 safety in Darrell Stuckey.  


PowercatPat:  11 of those wins were against Big 12 competition.  2 of them were against teams that finished the season ranked: (9) Va Tech and (16) Mizzou.  


JT:  I said '03 K-State was very good.  Better than good, but not quite great, IMO.