credit card churning

[Rick Daris]

so i've been reading up on this and think i may start.

ex.---Citibank has both personal and business credit cards that you can get and receive 20,000 American Airline miles by signing up for each (40,000 total). A person can cancel the credit card and signup for a new one after 60 days (personal) and after 90 days (business). In a year a person could easily get over 100,000 American Airline Miles. People think that it has a very minimal effect (if any) on your credit rating (around 20 points).

Below shows you what you could get w/ 100,000 American Airline Miles...

http://www.aa.com/aa/pubcontent/en_US/AAdvantage/partners/airlines/americanAirlines.jsp



any opinions? 

[jeffy]

90% of airline miles are not redeemed.

Credit Scores are WAYYYYY overrated.

[fatty fat fat]

i bought an AA shirt. it looks really good.

[Rick Daris]

i bought an AA shirt. it looks really good.

what kinda sleeve... long, short, muscle, tank? color?

[fatty fat fat]

http://cgi.ebay.com/American-Airlines-Tee-Vintage-Logo-T-Shirt-black-LARGE_W0QQitemZ220342235345QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15687QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


now, don't you go buying one!

[hillwalking03]

 

[pissclams]

[BigCat]

so i've been reading up on this and think i may start.

ex.---Citibank has both personal and business credit cards that you can get and receive 20,000 American Airline miles by signing up for each (40,000 total). A person can cancel the credit card and signup for a new one after 60 days (personal) and after 90 days (business). In a year a person could easily get over 100,000 American Airline Miles. People think that it has a very minimal effect (if any) on your credit rating (around 20 points).

Below shows you what you could get w/ 100,000 American Airline Miles...

http://www.aa.com/aa/pubcontent/en_US/AAdvantage/partners/airlines/americanAirlines.jsp



any opinions? 

Sounds good, but what kind of fine print are we talking about? I mean, if I can fill out a few apps and get a free trip to Paraguay with little or no real hassle, then hell yeah.

[Rick Daris]

so i've been reading up on this and think i may start.

ex.---Citibank has both personal and business credit cards that you can get and receive 20,000 American Airline miles by signing up for each (40,000 total). A person can cancel the credit card and signup for a new one after 60 days (personal) and after 90 days (business). In a year a person could easily get over 100,000 American Airline Miles. People think that it has a very minimal effect (if any) on your credit rating (around 20 points).

Below shows you what you could get w/ 100,000 American Airline Miles...

http://www.aa.com/aa/pubcontent/en_US/AAdvantage/partners/airlines/americanAirlines.jsp



any opinions? 

Sounds good, but what kind of fine print are we talking about? I mean, if I can fill out a few apps and get a free trip to Paraguay with little or no real hassle, then hell yeah.

that's just it. no real fine print. probably not smart if you are thinking about buying a home in the next year or two, but i'm not. here are a couple of links on the subject. the first is like a thity two page monster that more than covers everything and the second is kinda funny (guy got over 300,000 miles in a day).


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-credit-card-programs/583261-credit-card-churning.html

http://chrisguillebeau.com/3x5/the-5-million-frequent-flyer-mile-challenge/

[BigCat]

so i've been reading up on this and think i may start.

ex.---Citibank has both personal and business credit cards that you can get and receive 20,000 American Airline miles by signing up for each (40,000 total). A person can cancel the credit card and signup for a new one after 60 days (personal) and after 90 days (business). In a year a person could easily get over 100,000 American Airline Miles. People think that it has a very minimal effect (if any) on your credit rating (around 20 points).

Below shows you what you could get w/ 100,000 American Airline Miles...

http://www.aa.com/aa/pubcontent/en_US/AAdvantage/partners/airlines/americanAirlines.jsp



any opinions? 

Sounds good, but what kind of fine print are we talking about? I mean, if I can fill out a few apps and get a free trip to Paraguay with little or no real hassle, then hell yeah.

that's just it. no real fine print. probably not smart if you are thinking about buying a home in the next year or two, but i'm not. here are a couple of links on the subject. the first is like a thity two page monster that more than covers everything and the second is kinda funny (guy got over 300,000 miles in a day).


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-credit-card-programs/583261-credit-card-churning.html

http://chrisguillebeau.com/3x5/the-5-million-frequent-flyer-mile-challenge/

Damn. See, this is a problem because I'm getting ready to buy a house here in the next few months... I suppose the scheme can't be illegal if you are operating within the bounds of the written contract, so it's a juicy idea. I suppose if I were you I'd jump on it. Might beware of credit card vendettas though... I wonder if once your previous card companies figure out what you're doing that they might get wary.

[steve dave]

Do it Daris.  Have thought about cashing out, like, $100k in CCs at the "zero percent for 90/120/180/etc. days" thing and just investing in a money market fund for the duration before paying them off.  Also, I read somewhere where a guy bought about $50k in currency from the US Mint (free shipping) on a rewards card and just took the money to the bank and cashed it in paying off the card.  Theoretically you could do this for an infinite amount of miles if you had the energy. 

[steve dave]

Oh, also, I have two Hilton Visa cards that look identical.  Forgot I had signed up and signed up again.  Got 100k hilton honors points for signing up for both.  They are citi cards so I can confirm they don't pay attention.  Also, they have bigger things to worry about now.  Plus, you already own your house so what do you care if you credit takes a hit.

[BigCat]

Do it Daris.  Have thought about cashing out, like, $100k in CCs at the "zero percent for 90/120/180/etc. days" thing and just investing in a money market fund for the duration before paying them off.  Also, I read somewhere where a guy bought about $50k in currency from the US Mint (free shipping) on a rewards card and just took the money to the bank and cashed it in paying off the card.  Theoretically you could do this for an infinite amount of miles if you had the energy. 

First idea is risky, obviously... My first thought is to get a jumbo CD with that much money ($100k plus) because the returns are better. Couple months ago you could get 5.75% on jumbo CDs with some banks.

But I digress... While it seems foolproof, the idea of taking out a $100k loan on credit cards makes my blood curdle. Deal like that seems ripe for something going wrong.

Second thing... The guy getting money from the mint... First of all I had no idea you could get currency in those quantities directly from the mint (seems bogus). Second, I'm not sure I follow what he was doing. You said he took it to the bank and cashed it in. You mean deposited it so that he could write a check and pay the card off? With the whole goal being to earn miles?

[steve dave]

Second thing... The guy getting money from the mint... First of all I had no idea you could get currency in those quantities directly from the mint (seems bogus). Second, I'm not sure I follow what he was doing. You said he took it to the bank and cashed it in. You mean deposited it so that he could write a check and pay the card off? With the whole goal being to earn miles?

Yes, obviously it was to get miles.  He deposited into his account and paid off the card.  It was free points/miles/cashback/etc.

[Rick Daris]

well, i started the churning process yesterday. started slow...only w/ the wife and only applied for two of the citi AA cards. should get 50,000 miles which would be enough for two domestic round trip flights or one roundtrip flight to europe, japan, brazil, etc.. the mint idea is really funny and was actually included in the funny link that i posted just above. the 100,000 hilton honors points are fantastic, i don't think they are giving that much now (will have to double check). i'll probably do hilton honors or starwood (which seems to be the best deal) as well. within a year i figure i should have enough for roundtrip tickets and accomodations overseas to about anywhere i want to go. 

quote from link above...

THIRD – Meet any minimum spending requirements for the cards you choose. These requirements will be disclosed upon application, and you’ll want to keep track of them in the spreadsheet template or elsewhere.

By the way, if you’re worried about not being able to spend enough to qualify for multiple mileage bonuses, there’s a trick for this too: buy $1 coins from the U.S. Mint. They come in boxes of $250 each, and you can exchange them at your bank for the same value. With free shipping, it won’t cost you anything at all, and you’ll also earn additional miles for the “purchase” of the coins.


link to us mint and free shipping...

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&identifier=8000


brand new link to people doing exactly what SD mentioned. timing of this convo and unrelated one on separate place is kinda bizarro...

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=1227469

[Rick Daris]

OMFG...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-express-membership-rewards/928258-almost-three-million-points-rtw-beer-tasting-reading-newspapers-like.html



this guy avg'd 27 purchases a day. incredibly nerdy but kind of my hero at the same time.

[steve dave]

This thread is fantastic.  Good work Daris.  Poor credit and free vacations here i come! 

[steve dave]

Second thing... The guy getting money from the mint... First of all I had no idea you could get currency in those quantities directly from the mint (seems bogus).

Oh, and BigCat.....screw you for questioning me 

[Rick Daris]

so i just applied and was accepted for an amex starwood rewards credit card for myself and for my wife. 10,000 points each or 20,000 total. could be enough for ten free nights depending on when and where you stay. more likely to spend 3000 or 40000 a night though. still pretty good....

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/account/starpoints/redeem/free_nights.html

[jthutch]

This is awesome.  I'm going to quit my job so I can just travel all over the world with all the air miles I'll rack up.

[steve dave]

Daris, you can get a hilton visa and a hilton amex (or two of each with your wife).  Would get 35,000 hhonors miles (70k with your wife).  The rooms go from 7,500 to 40k.

http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/about/creditamex.do
http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/about/creditvisa.do

[BigCat]

Second thing... The guy getting money from the mint... First of all I had no idea you could get currency in those quantities directly from the mint (seems bogus).

Oh, and BigCat.....screw you for questioning me 

  Right back at ya but I would like to see proof of this. I mean, you just call the mint and be like hey would you deliver $50k to my house? And yeah I'm putting this on a credit card...

[steve dave]

Second thing... The guy getting money from the mint... First of all I had no idea you could get currency in those quantities directly from the mint (seems bogus).

Oh, and BigCat.....screw you for questioning me 

  Right back at ya but I would like to see proof of this. I mean, you just call the mint and be like hey would you deliver $50k to my house? And yeah I'm putting this on a credit card...

No, you have to order them online. 
LINK

Your apology goes here

[BigCat]

so i just applied and was accepted for an amex starwood rewards credit card for myself and for my wife. 10,000 points each or 20,000 total. could be enough for ten free nights depending on when and where you stay. more likely to spend 3000 or 40000 a night though. still pretty good....

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/preferredguest/account/starpoints/redeem/free_nights.html

I'm impressed, Daris. If I wasn't new to credit I would maybe follow your lead and take the plunge. Gotta keep us updated on how this deal works.

I don't want to read the deets... How long do you have to keep the card to take advantage of the free stays, any requirements regarding that?

[BigCat]

Second thing... The guy getting money from the mint... First of all I had no idea you could get currency in those quantities directly from the mint (seems bogus).

Oh, and BigCat.....screw you for questioning me 

  Right back at ya but I would like to see proof of this. I mean, you just call the mint and be like hey would you deliver $50k to my house? And yeah I'm putting this on a credit card...

No, you have to order them online. 
LINK

Your apology goes here
sorry

Here's this:
http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14715&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=32241

$250 in quarters for $310....

Or this:

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14598&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=27238

I don't want to fill out the forms to advance to the point where I figure out whether shipping is free but it seems like this is about the closest way possible to get $250 worth of mint for $250 worth of card charges.

[steve dave]

I don't want to fill out the forms to advance to the point where I figure out whether shipping is free

The United States Mint pays for standard shipping and handling of domestic orders.

[BigCat]

I don't want to fill out the forms to advance to the point where I figure out whether shipping is free

The United States Mint pays for standard shipping and handling of domestic orders.

Good find. Didn't really want to even put that much effort into it. Tell you what though, I am interested enough to run the numbers on this and see how much money could be made. Wait a tick...

[Rick Daris]

Daris, you can get a hilton visa and a hilton amex (or two of each with your wife).  Would get 35,000 hhonors miles (70k with your wife).  The rooms go from 7,500 to 40k.

http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/about/creditamex.do
http://hhonors1.hilton.com/en_US/hh/about/creditvisa.do

huh. you know...i spent about 30 minutes comparing the two programs and various options this morning and went w/ starwood partly because i didn't see the amex Hhonors deal. just saw the visa one. the amex Hhonors deal looks fantastic, the visa one was not close to as many points.

i've read somewhere recently though that amex is cutting down in someway where maybe you can only have so many cards or so many rewards cards or something. will ask nerds over on flyertalk in the next few days and report back if i decide to do the Hilton deal.

overall, i don't believe this will hurt my credit much at all. again, most of the people who have done this have noticed a small drop (maybe 20 points or so), guess we'll see....

also, there are apparently a lot of people who have done the mint deal. the starwood cards i just got have a provision where you get 15,000 bonus points if you spend 15,000 dollars on them in the first 6 months. if i can do the mint deal on each card, i'll have like 80,000 starwood points. could be enough to get about three weeks at a pretty nice place.

[steve dave]

I don't want to fill out the forms to advance to the point where I figure out whether shipping is free

The United States Mint pays for standard shipping and handling of domestic orders.

Good find. Didn't really want to even put that much effort into it. Tell you what though, I am interested enough to run the numbers on this and see how much money could be made. Wait a tick...

Not a lot....depending on what kind of rewards card you have.  Say you get 1% cash back.  You could make 200 orders and get $1,000.  Not everyone has $100k credit limit on their card (though Daris is about to have a lot of available credit) so you would have to order, say, $10k in coins a month paying them off at the end of the month for 10 consecutive months.  Kind of a hassle going to the bank with $10k in silver dollars every month though.  But, like Daris pointed out, it's an easy way to fully qualify for the rewards miles on these credit cards that require a certain amount of purchases. 

[BigCat]

You can get 2.48 on a six month jumbo CD from a bank in Alabama... You can get the same rate for a $50,000 CD from the same bank. If it compounds daily (which many do), you would have $102,510.92 at the end of six months...

So you're looking at $2,500 worth of interest over six months but you'll probably incur a few other costs in there. Not to mention the fact that you'll have to pay that entire $100,000 back within the first billing period, so coming up with that might be a bit tough. Unless it's possible to set it up so that you only have to pay that card back on a yearly basis or something. Some kind of business card maybe.