Frank Martin

[BMWJhawk]

Barnes hasn't done much with all the talent he has brought in over the last several years.  Big 12 Co-Championships is about it. 

[steve dave]

Barnes hasn't done much with all the talent he has brought in over the last several years.  Big 12 Co-Championships is about it. 

OK, you will take Self over Barnes.  Congrats. 

[BMWJhawk]

If Self coached for Texas and Barnes coached for ku, it wouldn't even be a question, Steve.  LOL @ your attempt to justify Barnes over Self based on recruiting.  Last time I checked, ku and Texas have nearly identical classes for '09, and '10/'11 recruiting is just getting started.

[steve dave]

If Self coached for Texas and Barnes coached for ku, it wouldn't even be a question, Steve.  LOL @ your attempt to justify Barnes over Self based on recruiting.  Last time I checked, ku and Texas have nearly identical classes for '09, and '10/'11 recruiting is just getting started.

I base everything on recruiting.  I base KSU success on recruiting.  Take off your jayhawk glasses before you even start to compare the classes.  Barnes has a much better class than Self right now for '09.  Only the addition of John Wall would put you at even.  He has two commits ranked higher than your top commit.  Barnes has a monster started for '10 and has already beaten out ku for his first '11er. 

[sys]

bmw, we all like self.  but barnes is really recruiting at an incredible level now.  not that he was recruiting poorly previously.

[fatty fat fat]

not that he was recruiting poorly previously.

07 and 08 sucked for him

[sys]

07 and 08 sucked for him

mostly agree, although brown being denied eligibility makes it look worse.  his 2004 and 2006 classes were incred, though.  2005 sucked.

[BMWJhawk]

Fair enough.  I still think if you look at the '09 recruiting classes, they're pretty similar.  ku has two top 25 5-stars (Johnson is 5-star on Scout, #26 overall on Rivals) and a top 35 4-star (Withey).  Texas' '09 has two top 10 5-stars and a top 70.  

I think Skycat made a good point, though.  Recruiting isn't just about signing the highest ranked prospects.  You need a blend of 3-4 year guys to go along with the 1-2-and-dones.  That's the recipe for winning a National Championship.

[fatty fat fat]

Recruiting isn't just about signing the highest ranked prospects. 

It's more about recruiting good players. having a top ranking doesn't guarantee one is a good player. of course in basketball it's pretty close


and ut has a better class than ku. espn doesn't think much of ku's pair.

[BMWJhawk]

Robinson is top 20 on both Rivals and Scout... don't care about ESPN's rankings.  Texas' class is better, but not by much.  Like I said, good 3-4 year players with a nice blend of 1-2-and-dones wins titles. 

[sys]

Fair enough.  I still think if you look at the '09 recruiting classes, they're pretty similar.  ku has two top 25 5-stars (Johnson is 5-star on Scout, #26 overall on Rivals) and a top 35 4-star (Withey).  Texas' '09 has two top 10 5-stars and a top 70.  

I think Skycat made a good point, though.  Recruiting isn't just about signing the highest ranked prospects.  You need a blend of 3-4 year guys to go along with the 1-2-and-dones.  That's the recipe for winning a National Championship.

well, you can't discount the difference between top 10s and top 25s.  but i think what really puts barnes over the top for most cat fans is that he already has a couple of elite 10s lined up too.  2 back to back elite classes.  not to discount woolridge (the staff must see something in him to take him early) but self doesn't have that now.

[BMWJhawk]

That's cool... Barnes is a very good recruiter.  I feel that accomplishments also define a coach... call me crazy, but winning the National Championship carries a bit of weight, IMO.  Self and ku aren't done recruiting for '10.  Woolridge will move up in the rankings now that he's had a couple 50-point games and has grown a couple inches.  Kid has a smooth stroke and good genes.  ku doesn't offer a kid that early if he's nothing special.

[sys]

i don't think there's any question that barnes and self are the prussia and russia of the big 12.

[Skycat]

i don't think there's any question that barnes and self are the prussia and russia of the big 12.

please extend this analogy

[SUPERKSUFAN]

i don't think there's any question that barnes and self are the prussia and russia of the big 12.

please extend this analogy

x2 tia

[sys]

self is russia.  barnes is prussia (look at his eyes).  the big 12 is poland.

[jester66]

self is russia.  barnes is prussia (look at his eyes).  the big 12 is poland.

Self would be Prussia....just saying

[sys]

self is russia.  barnes is prussia (look at his eyes).  the big 12 is poland.

Self would be Prussia....just saying

no, self is a better fit as russia.  big, sloppy, ruddy-faced drunk, abundant natural resources.

[pissclams]

martin is the crusha

[LimestoneOutcropping]

self is russia.  barnes is prussia (look at his eyes).  the big 12 is poland.

Self would be Prussia....just saying

no, self is a better fit as russia.  big, sloppy, ruddy-faced drunk, abundant natural resources.

loud as hell, physically aggressive to those weaker (referees), backs down to those bigger/stronger (players)