This is retarded.

[Dan Rydell]

http://mb17.scout.com/fkansasstatefrm3.showMessage?topicID=17509.topic

I guess now we're blaming the customer if they won't buy the product.

There are several good solutions to this "problem," and none of them involve shaming people into buying overpriced tickets.  It's a pretty straightforward economic analysis.

[fatty fat fat]

Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

If floors me that people that spend as much time as they do on this board, wouldn't go to the actual games.

[Saulbadguy]

Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

If floors me that people that spend as much time as they do on this board, wouldn't go to the actual games.

$$$

[michigancat]

Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.

[Dan Rydell]

People don't want to see good football.  They want to see good football that the Cats win, or have a decent chance of winning.  That's why they wanted to see top ten OOC back when we were good.  The Louisville game, for all intents and purposes, was meaningless.  It could be argued that it was more meaningless than Marshall or even FAU, as those games carried more meaning because they were realistically winnable and directly impact our bowl chances.  Baylor and OSU carry more meaning because they're conference games and affect our conference standings.

The Louisville game didn't impact our conference standings.  Louisville, while currently a national power, doesn't have the name that a Miami or USC has to sell tickets.  The only people who thought we had a realistic chance of winning are already perennial season ticket holders and Lee Corso.  Thus, the only interest in the game was to see how far short we are of being a national player again, which doesn't carry much interest for the type of KSU fan who would be buying those tickets.

[ScubaSteve]

People don't want to see good football.  They want to see good football that the Cats win, or have a decent chance of winning.  That's why they wanted to see top ten OOC back when we were good.  The Louisville game, for all intents and purposes, was meaningless.  It could be argued that it was more meaningless than Marshall or even FAU, as those games carried more meaning because they were realistically winnable and directly impact our bowl chances.  Baylor and OSU carry more meaning because they're conference games and affect our conference standings.

The Louisville game didn't impact our conference standings.  Louisville, while currently a national power, doesn't have the name that a Miami or USC has to sell tickets.  The only people who thought we had a realistic chance of winning are already perennial season ticket holders and Lee Corso.  Thus, the only interest in the game was to see how far short we are of being a national player again, which doesn't carry much interest for the type of KSU fan who would be buying those tickets.

Hate to break this to you slimy, but we're not going to be a national title contender every year, but if you want to try to contend every now and then, the school needs money.  They derive money from selling tickets, television, and donations.  If you want the school to succeed, you need to buy a fu$&^%g ticket or donate some money.  At least if you buy a ticket, you get to see the game.  We have lame-ass fans...plain and simple.

[sonofdaxjones]

I still say that certain nose bleed seats and north endzone single game tickets need to be cheaper.   The problem is that at $55 a pop only upper level endzone seats available they're not going to move for an 11 am start.   They should be priced at $35 or $40 max.

[Dan Rydell]

People don't want to see good football.  They want to see good football that the Cats win, or have a decent chance of winning.  That's why they wanted to see top ten OOC back when we were good.  The Louisville game, for all intents and purposes, was meaningless.  It could be argued that it was more meaningless than Marshall or even FAU, as those games carried more meaning because they were realistically winnable and directly impact our bowl chances.  Baylor and OSU carry more meaning because they're conference games and affect our conference standings.

The Louisville game didn't impact our conference standings.  Louisville, while currently a national power, doesn't have the name that a Miami or USC has to sell tickets.  The only people who thought we had a realistic chance of winning are already perennial season ticket holders and Lee Corso.  Thus, the only interest in the game was to see how far short we are of being a national player again, which doesn't carry much interest for the type of KSU fan who would be buying those tickets.

Hate to break this to you slimy, but we're not going to be a national title contender every year, but if you want to try to contend every now and then, the school needs money.  They derive money from selling tickets, television, and donations.  If you want the school to succeed, you need to buy a fu$&^%g ticket or donate some money.  At least if you buy a ticket, you get to see the game.  We have lame-ass fans...plain and simple.

It's the school's job to understand some basic economics and price accordingly to maximize profit.  They may be doing so, as a matter of fact.  The byproduct may just be some empty seats that show up on TV.  I happen to believe that there's some market surplus there that's not being captured by the current pricing structure, but I don't have access to the athletic department's figures, so I may be wrong.

Calling our fans "lame-ass" is ignorant and shows an inability to comprehend simple economics and reality.  There are thousands of KSU fans who have the ability to regard KSU as a charity and therefore donate to the athletic department or pay artificially-high prices for tickets.  However, there are others who don't.  Generalizing to an entire fanbase or calling out some imaginary set of straw-men fans who didn't attend the Louisville game is ignorant and tactless.

[michigancat]

Calling out some imaginary set of straw-men fans who didn't attend the Louisville game is ignorant and tactless.

Dare I say..."Lame-ass"

[fatty fat fat]

Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.

Really? Was USC (top 10 team) a sell-out?

[michigancat]

Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.

Really? Was USC (top 10 team) a sell-out?

People said that back when we were good.  Didn't exactly follow through.  That said, has any OOC game come anywhere close to matching that attendance since?

[fatty fat fat]

46,000 for a top 8 team is pathetic. We were 3-0 not 0-3.

[michigancat]

46,000 for a top 8 team is pathetic. We were 3-0 not 0-3.

I guess I just don't care that much.

[Saulbadguy]

46,000 for a top 8 team is pathetic. We were 3-0 not 0-3.

I guess I just don't care that much.

Me neither.

It bothered me when only a few thousand people were at the basketball games though, because it was dead quiet. 

[fatty fat fat]

You should, all the big-time programs have at least 60K + consistently.

It shouldn't bother you when people don't show up for basketball games, with the coaches we had there was no reason to show up.

[catzacker]

The attendance is embarassing, but par for the course.  We're not any different than any other fan base, and quite honestly probably worse.  We've had more reasons to sell out consistently (excluding '04 and '05) than any other team in the North and yet we haven't.  Since the expansion, how many games has KSU sold out against an opponent not named Nebraska?

[michigancat]

You should, all the big-time programs have at least 60K + consistently.

I don't care as long as we win, (which will eventually bring more fans).  Scuba made the argument that more fans bring more wins...it's kind of a chicken vs. the egg question.

[fatty fat fat]

Yes, and winning is aided by bringing more fans..increasing budget...etc..

It's a bad thing. Period.

[michigancat]

Yes, and winning is aided by bringing more fans..increasing budget...etc..

It's a bad thing. Period.

Well, if you're just worried about revenue...46k paying $55 for a non-con game is pretty damn good...only NU, UT, OU, and aTm will do better than that.

[fatty fat fat]

You know I'm not just worried about revenue.  We have a 50K stadium...there is no reason for 5K open seats when a top 10 team comes to town.

With our incredible success the past 15 years, we should be able to easily sell more than MU, ku, ISU, OSU, BU and TT.

[sonofdaxjones]

Folks, I could buy single game tickets to Florida State-Boston College for $38 bucks.

I could buy a 4 pack to MU-CU for $80 bucks, or single game tickets for $45.

MU vs ku single game tickets are $45.

Two Arkansas SEC conference home games are $35 a pop for tickets.

KSU charges $55 a pop for nose bleed seats.  

[fatty fat fat]

There no nose-bleed seats at KSU Stadium.

Our stadium seats 50 K, most SEC stadiums seat 70K

[michigancat]

You know I'm not just worried about revenue.  We have a 50K stadium...there is no reason for 5K open seats.

With our incredible success the past 15 years, we should be able to easily sell more than MU, ku, ISU, OSU, BU and TT.

We do, with the exception of Tech and MU.  Our revenues/game are much hire than MU's and pretty close to TTech...Weiser is all about the benjamins.


Dax is right.  You can get Ole Miss/UGA tix for $40, etc.  All of Tech's conference games against not-UT have thousands of $35 tickets.

[fatty fat fat]

We've had more success than Tech. By far.

Uga/Ole Miss have huge stadium with some real crapty seats. All our seats have great views.

[michigancat]

Ole Miss only seats like 60k.  And the way their stadium is arranged makes KSU's upper deck corners much worse than any seat in their stadium.

[catzacker]

Fun Stats:

Below shows the year - approximate average home attendance per year -  number of games that had an attendance over 50K (and the teams):

99-  51K  - 6 (ku, CU, MU, Utah St. Utep, Temple)
00- 50K - 4 (NU, OU, TT, ISU)
01- 48K - 2 (CU, ku)
02- 48K - 2 (NU, UT)
03- 47K - 2 (ku, CU)
04- 48K - 2 (OU, NU)
05- 45K - 0

[sonofdaxjones]

Sure "great" view, and an 8 story walk back down to take your kid to the bathroom and another 8 stories back up.  

Fatty subscribes to the "rather have empty" seats then lower the price on a couple of sections of the stadium viewpoint.

Plus I'd bet the upper level seats at Arkansas's stadium are no higher up then at KSU's, they just  have a deck that wraps around the entire stadium and not one side.

The $38 seats at Florida State start in the endzone right down by the field.

[fatty fat fat]

Has Ole Miss gone 118-42 in the last 13 years?

Nope..82-69.

that..is...a...huge..difference.

WE've won..won big. And we stll can't bring 50K.

[MrWhite]

average ticket cost for public bench seat is $37.50.

If you're a young alum, it's $22.25.

catzacker tells the story.  when the team is kicking arse, all these supposed issues about cost, sight lines and potty time outs are non-factors.

the reality is there just aren't 45K ksu fans. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Which gets me back to something I've been saying for nearly 10 years now.

KSU will have problems with attendance if KSU isn't going 11-1 every year.

Because people aren't going to buy some of the most expensive season tickets, and some of the most expensive single game tickets in the Big 12 to be herded off and treated like 2nd and 3rd class citizens. 

If you've followed it like I have, you'd know that the schools that are always sold out have invested millions in making sure that every fan in attendance has access to proper amenitites.   

Many folks who are KSU fans are willing to look the other way on this stuff for really good teams ... they aren't going to do it for mediocre or bad teams. 

People have figured KSU out ... and they aren't going to allow themselves to get treated like dirt up in section 420-Row 20 and pay $55-$60-$65-$70 a pop to go watch a 5-6, 7-4 or whatever team. 

This isn't that hard guys.    KSU had ample opportunity to address this, and Max Urick and Tim Weiser have opted to do everything on the cheap.