Lets say that Snyder learned what he did wrong, and wants to hire quality assts.

[yoga-lika_abana]

not why i did that.

i just dont think he'll work out.

thanks for understanding.

only reason he wouldn't work out at wisky is because there fans have unreal expectations. How many times did they have a 12 win season under Barry Alvarez 0

[michigancat]

Why wouldn't they?

Low pay, crappy location, impossible to win.

You know, the same reasons we couldn't even get a competent DC to be our head coach and had to beg Snyder to come back in the first place.

Figures.  You're blowing smoke out your ass.

How come it all worked before?

don't know.  I guess we got lucky?

So, why would good assistants want to come here?  <-you've avoided this question.

[mjrod]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

[Pete]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

[frankencat]

Why would they come here?

1)

a) Oklahoma
b) Arizona
c) Wisconsin
d) Kansas
e) South Florida

2) Pay package ranking top 4 in the Big 12.

3) Your head coach has 0% chance of being fired.  If/when he steps down, your job will most likely be safe if you choose to remain.

4) Low cost of living.

5) Midwestern values, good schools, child raising environment, etc...

6) Free tickets to KSU basketball.

7) Major facilities upgrades on the horizon.

I could go on. 

Hot chicks?

[mjrod]

Why wouldn't they?

Low pay, crappy location, impossible to win.

You know, the same reasons we couldn't even get a competent DC to be our head coach and had to beg Snyder to come back in the first place.

Figures.  You're blowing smoke out your ass.

How come it all worked before?

don't know.  I guess we got lucky?

So, why would good assistants want to come here?  <-you've avoided this question.

Many good assistants have passed through here and have accomplished the things at K-State that you say didn't happen.   Again, you're blowing smoke out your ass.

[yoga-lika_abana]

Why wouldn't they?

Low pay, crappy location, impossible to win.

You know, the same reasons we couldn't even get a competent DC to be our head coach and had to beg Snyder to come back in the first place.

Figures.  You're blowing smoke out your ass.

How come it all worked before?

don't know.  I guess we got lucky?

So, why would good assistants want to come here?  <-you've avoided this question.

Rusty are you more pissed at the administration or at the fact it is Snyder? Think its bull crap you keep calling Snyder out when it was Krause and Wefalds choice to bring Snyder back.

If we would have had a competent administration it probably would have lead to someone else.

No reason for the hate on Snyder though.

[mjrod]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

[Pete]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

Not in recruiting....we ran on fumes.  Some nice players came in pre-2003, but not enough.

It's really not interesting at all.

[michigancat]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

You're still failing to see the correlation between identifying and attracting talent and wins/losses.

We got one quality assistant after 1998 (Bielema).  The rest were garbage.  We've failed to attract a competent head coach in our last two tries.  I see no reason why we can all of a sudden become a beacon for high-quality assistant coaches.

[Pete]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

Also, don't be so &@#%ing pretentious.  Let's focus on the future.  Go earn your soon-to-be premium money and get us some &@#%ing AC candidate names.   Let's focus on how this &@#%ing thing can work.

[ltrain37]

Lets spin this a different way...what did Snyder or the Athl Dept do wrong that needs to change (obviously something wasn't working when he left the first time)?  More $$ for assistants, Snyder giving up some control, etc?  In other words, what should Synders new sales pitch be?

[mjrod]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

Not in recruiting....we ran on fumes.  Some nice players came in pre-2003, but not enough.

It's really not interesting at all.

OMG.   Let me see if I understand this.

From 1999-2003 - KSU was...

11-1 (Holiday Bowl Champs)
10-3 (Cotton Bowl Champs)
6-6 - Insight Bowl
11-2 (Holiday Bowl Champs)
11-3 (Big 12 Champs)

Somewhere in there we quite a few talented players that went to the NFL.

[yoga-lika_abana]

Lets spin this a different way...what did Snyder or the Athl Dept do wrong that needs to change (obviously something wasn't working when he left the first time)?  More $$ for assistants, Snyder giving up some control, etc?  In other words, what should Synders new sales pitch be?

It's more like he was to loyal to his asst coaches. Weiser wanted him to get rid of them and Snyder wouldn't.

[michigancat]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

Not in recruiting....we ran on fumes.  Some nice players came in pre-2003, but not enough.

It's really not interesting at all.

OMG.   Let me see if I understand this.

From 1999-2003 - KSU was...

11-1 (Holiday Bowl Champs)
10-3 (Cotton Bowl Champs)
6-6 - Insight Bowl
11-2 (Holiday Bowl Champs)
11-3 (Big 12 Champs)

Somewhere in there we quite a few talented players that went to the NFL.

You don't understand when they were recruited, do you?

Also, here's another reason we won't get good assistants:

"I don't know if anybody ever leaves coach Snyder on good terms," SI quoted Stoops. "He simply doesn't accept that you would leave. But then again, there's no having a personal relationship with him even when you're there."

[yoga-lika_abana]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

Not in recruiting....we ran on fumes.  Some nice players came in pre-2003, but not enough.

It's really not interesting at all.

OMG.   Let me see if I understand this.

From 1999-2003 - KSU was...

11-1 (Holiday Bowl Champs)
10-3 (Cotton Bowl Champs)
6-6 - Insight Bowl
11-2 (Holiday Bowl Champs)
11-3 (Big 12 Champs)

Somewhere in there we quite a few talented players that went to the NFL.

You don't understand when they were recruited, do you?

Also, here's another reason we won't get good assistants:

"I don't know if anybody ever leaves coach Snyder on good terms," SI quoted Stoops. "He simply doesn't accept that you would leave. But then again, there's no having a personal relationship with him even when you're there."

So Terry Pierce sucked?

[mjrod]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

Also, don't be so fracking pretentious.  Let's focus on the future.  Go earn your soon-to-be premium money and get us some fracking AC candidate names.   Let's focus on how this fracking thing can work.

No, you are saying it can't work, and your facts don't support you.   The problems with 2004-2005 aren't just one or two things, but a combination of things that Snyder will take note and fix.  I mean, he didn't get into the position of knowing without ever having the ability to look backwards and see what works.   He is uniquely qualified to look to the past where it did work, and compare.

I'm sure he'll take the time to get the proper coaches in place.

[doom]

Why wouldn't they?

Low pay, crappy location, impossible to win.

You know, the same reasons we couldn't even get a competent DC to be our head coach and had to beg Snyder to come back in the first place.

Why would a defensive oriented coach want to coach in the Big 12 with spread offenses a plenty?  And even though Chase is leaving, Mizzou will be hell to play in a year with Gabbert.  Nebraska would have a better defense than we would for years, The rest of the north is easy, but then you get into the south...  

[Pete]

Lets spin this a different way...what did Snyder or the Athl Dept do wrong that needs to change (obviously something wasn't working when he left the first time)?  More $$ for assistants, Snyder giving up some control, etc?  In other words, what should Synders new sales pitch be?

I like this line of thinking, but I am willing to be more positive about it moving forward....'cause I firmly believe it is THE key to success.

Money to begin with.  We need to overcome the "Bill will work your dick into the ground" rhetoric that many other successful coaches out there are using against Bill as we speak.  Money can be the near-term lure to get the guys in the door.  Sure, some will want to work for a "mind" like Snyder, but why do that when Bob Stoops proved you don't have to live like that?

After money, it has to be Snyder SHOWING them that he has changed.  You would be a fool to be a Snyder OC (Mangion proved you have to move on to move up...and you can bet your ass that he has told that story to anyone who would listen).  You are nothing more than Snyder's piss boy.  UNLESS, Snyder can convince them that he has changed.  Life is better on the defensive side (Bobby, Mike, Jim, Brent, etc.)  The defensive side is where you go get the talent...easier sell.

[michigancat]

Why wouldn't they?

Low pay, crappy location, impossible to win.

You know, the same reasons we couldn't even get a competent DC to be our head coach and had to beg Snyder to come back in the first place.

Why would a defensive oriented coach want to coach in the Big 12 with spread offenses a plenty?  And even though Chase is leaving, Mizzou will be hell to play in a year with Gabbert.  Nebraska would have a better defense than we would for years, The rest of the north is easy, but then you get into the south...  

Because HC at a BCS school should be a better job than any coordinator position.

[Pete]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

So we weren't successful after 1998?

Interesting.

Also, don't be so fracking pretentious.  Let's focus on the future.  Go earn your soon-to-be premium money and get us some fracking AC candidate names.   Let's focus on how this fracking thing can work.

No, you are saying it can't work, and your facts don't support you.   The problems with 2004-2005 aren't just one or two things, but a combination of things that Snyder will take note and fix.  I mean, he didn't get into the position of knowing without ever having the ability to look backwards and see what works.   He is uniquely qualified to look to the past where it did work, and compare.

I'm sure he'll take the time to get the proper coaches in place.

Quit &@#%ing around and go get us our list of AC candidates.  You got to earn it MJ.   

[sonofdaxjones]

Why they wouldn't want to come to K-State:


1.  Not the easiest place to recruit.
2.  Strange guy still President of School.
3.  Strange situation in the Athletic Department.
4.  Rumors of Old Balls task master robotic nature.
5.  Not an easy place to access.[/li][/list]



Why they would want to come to K-State:

1.  Chance to work with Old Balls.
2.  Likely to be paid pretty well.
3.  Nice football administrative facilities.
4.  If they are successful will be very popular in community and get offers for better jobs.  
5.  Younger single coaches will have low self esteem booty call girls at their beck and call.

[tmramrod91]

Lets spin this a different way...what did Snyder or the Athl Dept do wrong that needs to change (obviously something wasn't working when he left the first time)?  More $$ for assistants, Snyder giving up some control, etc?  In other words, what should Synders new sales pitch be?

I like this line of thinking, but I am willing to be more positive about it moving forward....'cause I firmly believe it is THE key to success.

Money to begin with.  We need to overcome the "Bill will work your dick into the ground" rhetoric that many other successful coaches out there are using against Bill as we speak.  Money can be the near-term lure to get the guys in the door.  Sure, some will want to work for a "mind" like Snyder, but why do that when Bob Stoops proved you don't have to live like that?

After money, it has to be Snyder SHOWING them that he has changed.  You would be a fool to be a Snyder OC (Mangion proved you have to move on to move up...and you can bet your ass that he has told that story to anyone who would listen).  You are nothing more than Snyder's piss boy.  UNLESS, Snyder can convince them that he has changed.  Life is better on the defensive side (Bobby, Mike, Jim, Brent, etc.)  The defensive side is where you go get the talent...easier sell.

You're absolutely right, but there are only so many spots open on Bob Stoops, Pete Carrol's, and Urban Meyer's staffs.  With those guys you may not have to work like that, but how many other coaches in the country now are as successful as them?  Its a tough sell, but he's also obviously gotten talent in before, just have to trust he can do it again.

Again, wait and see approach.     (but v. --->>   )

[yosh]

I don't think it's that top assistants stopped wanting to come here, I think it's just that coach never fired the bad ones.  If Snyder had a 75% rating on hiring good assistants, but never fired any of them, over time you have nothing left but the 25% as the good ones move on.  His first staff was nails, and as people moved on he had a lot of good replacements, but also some not-so-good ones.  The good replacements, came in and moved on while other older guys spent years on the staff without ever being promoted or getting a raise.  Once those guys become your entire staff...your staff isn't very good.  

So what did he need to learn?  Fire the dead weight. The first time he fires and assistant in his second regime, I will breathe a sigh of relief.

[Legore]

Why wouldn't they?

How do you think the Stoops clan would answer that question....check that.....what do you think the Stoops clan has been telling the nation about that for the last 10 years?

Why do you think good assistants wouldn't come here?

I am still trying to figure that out.  I mean, why didn't they come here after 1998?  That is really my point.

Bob Stoop and Jim Leavitt left KSU after the 1995 season.  Stop acting like we had no quality assistants or success after they left.  

Snyder hired a ton of assistants over the years and he made far more good hires then bad ones.  Some guys might have gotten lazy at the end and he had some guys that had some personel problems that maybe he cut too much slack too.  Bobby Elliot got bitter and kind of weird not sure what went on with him but his staff at the end wasn't nearly as bad as people are letting on.  

As much as you say the Stoops crew bad mouths Snyder they pretty much seem to hire someone with connections to him any chance they get.  

[yoga-lika_abana]

I don't think it's that top assistants stopped wanting to come here, I think it's just that coach never fired the bad ones.  If Snyder had a 75% rating on hiring good assistants, but never fired any of them, over time you have nothing left but the 25% as the good ones move on.  His first staff was nails, and as people moved on he had a lot of good replacements, but also some not-so-good ones.  The good replacements, came in and moved on while other older guys spent years on the staff without ever being promoted or getting a raise.  Once those guys become your entire staff...your staff isn't very good.  

So what did he need to learn?  Fire the dead weight. The first time he fires and assistant in his second regime, I will breathe a sigh of relief.

we can hope

[Tulsa Cat]

Some of you guys really don't understand coaching do you?  If your ambitious young guy you have to be mentored (That means work for) a proven successful coach (That means Snyder) .  You resume looks oh so much better .  If you actually learn something and the team wins  then instead of you going out with your binder full of ideas and selling yourselfe like a cheap hooker (RP), the atheltic directors of other schools come calling on you  (Not KSU).
 

[Oklahoma_Cat]

Some of you guys really don't understand coaching do you? 

You don't make lateral career moves in any occupation, that's absurd.

[GoldbrickGangBoss]

This site is now filled to the brim with powertards. The same powertards that immediately endorsed Ron Prince when he arrived.

This is what you tards aren't getting... There are two Bill Snyders being thrown around here:

1. Bill Snyder the Younger.
2. Bill Snyder the Older.

You all saw Bill Snyder the Younger during his DoD(LoL). Thats the guy you all want him to be. People say 'well Snyder will do this, Snyder will do that, he'll have discipline, he'll recruit leaps and bounds better, aspiring head coaches will flock to him to be assistants'.

But three years ago, when we last saw Snyder, he was Bill Snyder the Older. He was no longer doing this, and that, and instilling discipline, and recruiting good, and he no longer had a good staff surrounding him. All of this was of the opinion of damn near everyone the last two years he was head coach. While he was retiring the general understanding was that although it was sad to see him go, it was time.

Three years later and he's back. Now the powertards are all hailing the return of Bill Snyder the Younger. Unfortunately, there is no reason to believe he's coming. Snyder was losing it back then, turnaround time mixed with very old age isn't a cure to remedy those kinds of failures. The only way this works is if he assembles a staff that will literally let him front the deal but do all the work. Joe Paterno style.

It's like nostalgia. Looking back and reminiscing about something you loved. But actually going back to it is bittersweet, not how you remember it. How often in sports or in anything do you see people, revered for their days long passed, come back and have just as much success? He's gonna pull a Michael Jordan. Fans will give him infinite time, outwardly say great things about him, inwardly wish he'd go away and leave that nostalgic thought intact before he destroys it.

He's 69. He should be retired. Not attempting to turn around a school that seems to be looking for get rich quick schemes. Old reliable is about to misfire.

[Oklahoma_Cat]

 

"lowercase b" gets it.