Date: 19/08/25 - 16:17 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Meier vs. Marshall  (Read 2395 times)

September 18, 2006, 01:29:42 AM
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Skycat

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There's a lot of talk on this board about our QB's performance.  Some of what's being written doesn't match my recollection of the game.  So since my 5 month old isn't sleeping well right now, and I'm up anyway, I figured I'd do some rudimentary charting of Meier's passes against Marshall.  I'm not promising it's 100% accurate, but my passing yards are within a couple of the official stats, so here it goes.

1st Quarter:

1/4 - 25 yards;  0/1 on 3rd down;  0 knockdowns/pressures.

The completion was a nice one to Jordy.  The three incompletions were all overthrows.  One was a pretty bad duck out in front of Figurs, which was his worst throw of the game in my opinion, as the Marshall player was really the only one that had a chance to catch the ball.  Overall, this was Meier's weakest quarter.

2nd Quarter:

5/8 48 yards; 2/4 on 3rd down; 4 knockdowns/pressures

Our interior OL did a poor job of pass protection in the second quarter.  Marshall was getting pressure straight up the middle, none of these were from blitzers coming free.  Two of the three incompletions were overthrown balls with Marshall players getting hits on Meier.  The other incompletion was thrown into coverage, but wasn't a dangerous throw.  Meier got blasted on one completion, and knocked down on two others.

After a disapointing 1st half, Meier led a drive down to the 7, where we had to settle for a FG when he overthrew Nelson in the end zone.

3rd Quarter:

9/17 189 yards 1 INT; 2/4 on 3rd down; 7 knockdowns/pressures

Two of these incompletions were throw aways when Marshall sniffed out screens.  One was a drop (the only drop of the game).  Two were due to pressure, one underthrown (although Jordy may have had a shot at that one if he hadn't fallen down) and one overthrown.  One incompletion happened on a PI call.  One was an overthrow (although Jordy looked real slow on that one), and the last one was the pick.  I don't think Meier saw the guy sitting in the underneath zone, and he made a pretty good play on the ball to grab the interception.

Another completion was wiped off the books with the offensive PI call.

Meier had a pretty good start to this quarter.  At times we gave up on the running game, and those were the times that we moved the ball best in this game.   But the one thing that Meier needs to do is not turn the ball over, and he did that here.  He had a very good completion percentage going in this quarter before three incompetions to end it.

4th Quarter:

4/8 69 yards 1 TD; 2/3 on 3rd down; 2 knockdowns/pressures

One incompletion again occured on a PI call on Marshall.  One was a severely underthown ball when a blitzer came free and popped Meier on release.  One was another overthrow, and the final incompletion was caused when he led the TE too far.

The credit for the TD goes mostly to Moreira, but Meier did get popped on the release from a safety on a delayed blitz.

He was only 50% this quarter, but he did pretty well here.

Overall:

Despite what I've read a couple of times on this board, there were only a couple of underthrown balls, and those occured when he was getting hit.  Overthrows were far more likely, especially in the first half.  Counting "ducks" is harder because that's a pretty subjective term. Certainly that 1st quarter throw to Figurs qualifies, but there was really only one other ball that Marshall had a shot at.  Of course they managed to pick it off.  He also dropped a snap early in the fourth, that he managed to jump on it. 

The OL pass blocked well at times, but really poorly at others.  I counted 13 knockdowns/hits on the QB.  Marshall managed to get good pressure from their DTs at times.  Meier/scheme deserve a fair amount credit for the lack of sacks as he got pressure right as he completed his drop at least 5 times.

I don't know what grade I'd give him for that performance, but I will say that it's higher than the OL/RB.  The passing game is pretty clearly ahead of the running game at this point in time.  Meier's not a guy we're going to win an NC with, but I believe he is good enough to get us to a bowl game if he gets some help.

Anyway, I don't imagine that this will end any debates or anything, but at least now you guys can use some facts when you argue with each other.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 01:45:43 AM by Skycat »

September 18, 2006, 09:19:58 AM
Reply #1

chum1

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I'd be convinced if you could show me that Meier is a guy who can make plays...make things happen...the type of guy that can sometimes improvise and make something out of seemingly nothing.  You know what I mean.  Many quarterbacks can at least sometimes find the open guy when a play broken down in one way or another.  Meier's weak arm isn't necessarily a liability in this regard.  Not all playmakers have strong arms.  Almost all are pretty accurate, though, and especially on the run.  In any case, I don't understand why anyone should be content with settling for a quarterback whose success seems to depend so greatly upon perfect execution by the offense. 


September 18, 2006, 09:50:33 AM
Reply #2

plaincat

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Great job with the breakdown Skycat.  Very fair.

The fact is that there are only about two or maybe three guys on here that are upset and extremely vocal about Meier.  They saw him throw that duck on the first play of the Illinois St. game and immediately decided that he had a weak arm, didn't look off defenders, and should be playing for Pittsburgh State.  They haven't backed off an inch even after two solid performances.  Their minds are already made up so they aren't watching the game like you are.  Until Meier hits Jordy with a bullet on a 50 yard crossing route in the endzone, they will be complaining.  Don't let them get you down.

 :ksu:

September 18, 2006, 09:50:52 AM
Reply #3

Racquetball_Ninja

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I'm wondering if SkyCat isn't somehow affiliated with the football program and doesn't have the freedom of mind to view Meier's performance objectively.  Plain and simply he's not a good quarterback.  Serviceable... yes but good... hell no.  Unless mediocrity is your cup of tea.

Also, if you take away the YAC he's throwing for somewhere in the neighborhood of 180 yards; that's a hell of a day for a D1 quarterback at a Big XII school.  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 09:53:40 AM by Racquetball_Ninja »

September 18, 2006, 10:01:13 AM
Reply #4

plaincat

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I'm wondering if SkyCat isn't somehow affiliated with the football program and doesn't have the freedom of mind to view Meier's performance objectively.  Plain and simply he's not a good quarterback.  Serviceable... yes but good... hell no.  Unless mediocrity is your cup of tea.

Also, if you take away the YAC he's throwing for somewhere in the neighborhood of 180 yards; that's a hell of a day for a D1 quarterback at a Big XII school.  :rolleyes:

You forgot to use the word "nutsack" in your post.


September 18, 2006, 10:05:09 AM
Reply #5

michigancat

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Like KK said in the other thread, it doesn't matter either way.  Dylan's our only choice. 

September 18, 2006, 10:06:00 AM
Reply #6

Skycat

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Yes, I admit it, I work in the Austin/Oak Hill, Texas branch of the K-State football department.

It's interesting that a couple of you think that what I wrote was some kind of glowing endorsement of Meier.  Read it again.  Until the very end of what I wrote, I don't know how I could have been more objective.  After that, all I said is that Meier and the passing game are ahead of the running game.  I'll stand by that.    

He threw two dangerous balls, that's two too many for Meier.  He did however make several completions while getting hit and he did an outstanding job of avoiding sacks.  Would I be happy if May or Bishop or Peyton Manning were leading our offense?  Of course I would.  My assertion is that for this year Meier will not be the limiting factor for our success.  I think that's fair.  Although I could end up being wrong.  Who knows?

Take away YACs?  Are you serious?  Our offense is predicated on YACs.


September 18, 2006, 10:12:32 AM
Reply #7

pissclams

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Peyton Manning is a bit too clean for our program, thank you very much.


Cheesy Mustache QB might make an appearance.

New warning: Don't get in a fight with someone who doesn't even need to bother to buy ink.

September 18, 2006, 10:14:45 AM
Reply #8

Racquetball_Ninja

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Our past offense was based on YAC, not this offense.  We have the receivers to throw the deep ball and something other than the slip screen or the curl, unfortunately we don't have a quarterback that can throw the ball deep consistently.  Rusty's right though, Meier is all we've got and that's the way it goes but I refuse to drink the Kool-Aid that will make me view Meier as anything other than serviceable on a good day. 

Look at it this way, at least we're arguing over a winning CATS team.   :ksu:

September 18, 2006, 10:59:34 AM
Reply #9

catsfan20012002

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Meier's not a guy we're going to win an NC with

So we're going from 9 wins in the last two years to a program with new coaches and offensive and defensive philosophies and someone came into this season with the objective of winning a National Championship?

No wonder this fan base is so screwed up.

September 18, 2006, 11:27:42 AM
Reply #10

Skycat

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Meier's not a guy we're going to win an NC with

So we're going from 9 wins in the last two years to a program with new coaches and offensive and defensive philosophies and someone came into this season with the objective of winning a National Championship?

No wonder this fan base is so screwed up.

That's sort of my point.  It seems to me if the QB isn't NC caliber that a number of people will say he "sucks".  There's plenty of room in between those two extremes.  And Meier fits in there somewhere.

September 18, 2006, 01:03:09 PM
Reply #11

swish1

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meier hasnt shown the ability to be consistent enough to put true scoring drives together with any consistentcy.  unless we have great field position i dont see him leading the team to very many scores.

September 18, 2006, 01:20:24 PM
Reply #12

Racquetball_Ninja

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National Championship was just a figure of speech.  My apologies I didn't think that either of you would take it so literally.  Let me ask the question differently.  Can you name me one decent football program in the Big XII that would like to have Dylan Meier as a starting quarterback? 

September 18, 2006, 01:48:09 PM
Reply #13

Skycat

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National Championship was just a figure of speech.  My apologies I didn't think that either of you would take it so literally.  Let me ask the question differently.  Can you name me one decent football program in the Big XII that would like to have Dylan Meier as a starting quarterback? 

With that we would then quibble on what teams are "decent", and how their supporting casts differ.

Again, I was trying to be objective as possible with my analysis of Meier.  You're certainly not the only poster that has disparaged Meier.  I haven't made any big claims about his prowess.  Right now I don't believe that he's going to be the weak link in the offense, and I haven't seen anyone make an argument that makes me believe otherwise.

September 18, 2006, 01:51:18 PM
Reply #14

mjrod

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National Championship was just a figure of speech.  My apologies I didn't think that either of you would take it so literally.  Let me ask the question differently.  Can you name me one decent football program in the Big XII that would like to have Dylan Meier as a starting quarterback? 

What does that matter?


September 18, 2006, 02:48:44 PM
Reply #15

Racquetball_Ninja

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National Championship was just a figure of speech.  My apologies I didn't think that either of you would take it so literally.  Let me ask the question differently.  Can you name me one decent football program in the Big XII that would like to have Dylan Meier as a starting quarterback? 

What does that matter?



The point is, I'm tired of the Meier apologists making excuses for Meier's play. 

September 18, 2006, 02:51:58 PM
Reply #16

AzCat

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Here's the bottom (objective) line on Meier:

Passing Offense: KSU #76
Had Intercepted: KSU #88
Passing Efficiency: KSU #98
Time of Possession: KSU #109

And for those bitching about the OL:

Sacks Allowed: KSU #4
Tackles for Loss Allowed: KSU #11

Someone's smoking crack here and it isn't the folks who believe Meier is average at his absolute best.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 02:56:06 PM by AzCat »
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 18, 2006, 02:59:41 PM
Reply #17

mjrod

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Here's the bottom (objective) line on Meier:

Passing Offense: KSU #76
Had Intercepted: KSU #88
Passing Efficiency: KSU #98
Time of Possession: KSU #109

And for those bitching about the OL:

Sacks Allowed: KSU #4
Tackles for Loss Allowed: KSU #11

Someone's smoking crack here and it isn't the folks who believe Meier is average at his absolute best.

I don't think I ever said Meier isn't an average QB, ever.

All I said was is that he has the capability to get us to a bowl game, maybe not by himself, but certainly, he won't do anything to harm that.

Also, do you or do you not agree we need a running game?  How is Meier, by himself, going to solve that problem?

September 18, 2006, 03:06:17 PM
Reply #18

catsfan20012002

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National Championship was just a figure of speech.  My apologies I didn't think that either of you would take it so literally.  Let me ask the question differently.  Can you name me one decent football program in the Big XII that would like to have Dylan Meier as a starting quarterback?

I would and so would you if we could keep him upright. The kid has what they call moxie.

September 18, 2006, 04:04:59 PM
Reply #19

Racquetball_Ninja

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 :lol:  Too bad moxie can't throw a consistent ball to a receivers hands or chest as opposed to at their feet or over their heads.   :flamethrower:

September 18, 2006, 04:09:31 PM
Reply #20

Skycat

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Alright, let's look at it this way.

This Saturday do you expect more success from the running game or the passing game?

If you say running game, explain why.

One last time:  Meier is not the weak link in this offense.

September 18, 2006, 04:21:07 PM
Reply #21

Racquetball_Ninja

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Alright, let's look at it this way.

This Saturday do you expect more success from the running game or the passing game?

If you say running game, explain why.

One last time:  Meier is not the weak link in this offense.

Consider both are basically inept I don't really expect much from either.  I haven't seen anything in our first 3 games that makes me believe we'll be able to run the ball against Louisville so if you're asking me to say which will have more success I say define success.  I don't view success as throwing one touchdown pass while throwing 3 interceptions 2 of which led to touchdowns for the opposing team. 

So, to answer your question I know that Meier is going to have his first look at a REAL defensive secondary this weekend and do I feel like he's going to be better than the run game but is he going to be a good quarterback... no.  That tells you just how bad our run game is.  I do know for a fact that Meier will not WIN the game for us, that job will be left up to the Defense and the Special Teams.

September 18, 2006, 04:25:01 PM
Reply #22

Racquetball_Ninja

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The 6-foot-3, 229-pound tight end leads the team this season with 13 receptions for 143 yards. He had a total of 14 receptions in his two previous seasons with the Wildcats.


There's a stat for you Sky, our leading receiver for the year is a tight end with 143 yards.  Tell me again how "great" Dylan is.

September 18, 2006, 04:34:13 PM
Reply #23

mjrod

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The 6-foot-3, 229-pound tight end leads the team this season with 13 receptions for 143 yards. He had a total of 14 receptions in his two previous seasons with the Wildcats.


There's a stat for you Sky, our leading receiver for the year is a tight end with 143 yards.  Tell me again how "great" Dylan is.

Um what should that number be?

September 18, 2006, 04:39:03 PM
Reply #24

Skycat

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The 6-foot-3, 229-pound tight end leads the team this season with 13 receptions for 143 yards. He had a total of 14 receptions in his two previous seasons with the Wildcats.


There's a stat for you Sky, our leading receiver for the year is a tight end with 143 yards.  Tell me again how "great" Dylan is.

Our leading rusher has 165 yards after two games.  What's your point?

September 18, 2006, 05:08:56 PM
Reply #25

sam adams

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Passing Offense: KSU #76
Had Intercepted: KSU #88
Passing Efficiency: KSU #98
Time of Possession: KSU #109

And for those bitching about the OL:

Sacks Allowed: KSU #4
Tackles for Loss Allowed: KSU #11


This is getting to be a tired argument, but these stats struck me as out of whack.  From http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/statistics

Passing Offense (ypg) KSU #75
Passing Yards Dylan Meier #52
Interceptions Dylan Meier #19 tied with 30+ others (meaning he is 19th highest out of 109)
Touchdowns Dylan Meier #52 tied with 20+ others
Passing Efficiency Dylan Meier #75
Completion % Dylan Meier #83

Rushing Yards KSU #70 tied with 1

Meier is not great, but certainly not the sky is falling oh my god bad either.  Chill fellas, we're 3-0.  Will we be great, no.  Bowl eligible?  a hell of alot more likely now than I thought we were two weeks ago.

« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 05:13:16 PM by sam adams »

September 18, 2006, 05:22:45 PM
Reply #26

AzCat

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Passing Offense: KSU #76
Had Intercepted: KSU #88
Passing Efficiency: KSU #98
Time of Possession: KSU #109

And for those bitching about the OL:

Sacks Allowed: KSU #4
Tackles for Loss Allowed: KSU #11


This is getting to be a tired argument, but these stats struck me as out of whack.  From http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/statistics

Passing Offense (ypg) KSU #75
Passing Yards Dylan Meier #52
Interceptions Dylan Meier #19 tied with 30+ others (meaning he is 19th highest out of 109)
Touchdowns Dylan Meier #52 tied with 20+ others
Passing Efficiency Dylan Meier #75
Completion % Dylan Meier #83

Rushing Yards KSU #70 tied with 1

Meier is not great, but certainly not the sky is falling oh my god bad either.  Chill fellas, we're 3-0.  Will we be great, no.  Bowl eligible?  a hell of alot more likely now than I thought we were two weeks ago.



They're not "out of whack" or any other such thing, they're the official stats from the NCAA.
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 18, 2006, 05:38:57 PM
Reply #27

sam adams

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Thanks for the link.

FYI, unless Meier changed his name to David Petoto, his passing efficiency rank is #70, not #98.  Other than that everything you and I posted was in agreement or close to it.  It doesn't seem fair to blame TOP on Meier, either.

He's below average, that's all.


September 18, 2006, 05:41:56 PM
Reply #28

AzCat

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Unless Meier is now spelling his name "KSU" those are team rankings I posted.
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 18, 2006, 05:51:55 PM
Reply #29

sam adams

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Meier is responsible for Freeman's crappy play too?   You are tough to please.