Date: 09/06/24 - 15:43 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Thoughts on the Marshall Game  (Read 7270 times)

September 17, 2006, 05:11:17 PM
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Kat Kid

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1.  This needs to be said.  This team is well coached.  I hate that I am so wrong about this and maybe it will change once we face some better teams, but there is better special teams, a better D (with a seemingly bigger emphasis on big plays) and an entirely different attitude/atmosphere than we have seen in some time.  The special teams is exactly what I remember those KSU teams on recent vintage (game changing, always a threat forcing teams to think/gameplan it every game.

2.  That said, the coaches have done some things that I disagree with.  1 of them is giving up on the run too early, IMHO.  Clayton ran 18 times.  1 TD, 5 runs for a first down, 4.2 a carry.  That isn't spectacular, that isn't what we want.  But that is enough to warrant more consistent play calling for him.  Bringing McCardle in was an absolute abortion and I knew that had bad news written all over it from the get-go.  The fact he plays FB in the I, is another sign of just how thin we are in certain spots.  That is also disturbing, especially considering where the O-line is.

3.  Norwood and the 5 yrd. TE curl is great, but look for teams to adjust to that.  If we don't have a better/more imaginative answer vs. the Ville look for a few interceptions. 

4.  Our safeties are both potential all big 12 1/2nd team.  Watts looks pretty good.  That interception was terrific.

5.  McKinney sucks.  Bad.

6.  This game's biggest play in terms of momentum was Prince brining in McCardle off the bench and fumbling that ball after a nice run.  If we score there game over, and a much better win.  Much like the last time Marshall came to town, that play led to Marshall's biggest drive of the game.  Keep in mind they were @ our 21 yard line when the D stepped up and got a holding call, then a sack, then Marshall punts (in the maroon zone:  "Where manly men GO FOR IT!" *hat tip TMQ*) for a lowly 19 yard net.  The next KSU series was the blocked punt.  The diference in this game was the way our Defense responded.  KSU has a 12 yard drive stall out and then the D responds with the Watt pick.  That put us up 10-7 at the half.  THAT WAS HUGE, BUT IT SHOULD'VE BEEN A TD.  When the D/Special Teams consistently gives the O the short field, the O has to be good enough to take advantage.  We have never asked the O to drive 80 yards over and over.  Just come out of the Red Zone with more than a field goal more times than not.  That is the biggest difference between this team losing 4-5 games and losing 6-7 games from here out.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

September 17, 2006, 05:31:04 PM
Reply #1

Dan Rydell

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^^^^^

What he said.

I'm cautiously optimistic about where we're headed after the first three games. 

September 17, 2006, 05:31:15 PM
Reply #2

Fausto

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"The fact he plays FB in the I, is another sign of just how thin we are in certain spots.  That is also disturbing, especially considering where the O-line is."

We knew the Cats were not deep at FB, especially following the move of Rimon to D and loss of Roxas.  However, I have the belief reinforced more and more that Prince is playing who he is playing in certain areas to send messages to others who are underperforming.  So far it hasn't had an incredible negitive affect, and I hope it doesn't in the future.  We're getting into big boy football now (Louisville then the conference slate), and I hope everyone steps up and realizes that.  

September 17, 2006, 05:36:58 PM
Reply #3

Kat Kid

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"The fact he plays FB in the I, is another sign of just how thin we are in certain spots.  That is also disturbing, especially considering where the O-line is."

We knew the Cats were not deep at FB, especially following the move of Rimon to D and loss of Roxas.  However, I have the belief reinforced more and more that Prince is playing who he is playing in certain areas to send messages to others who are underperforming.  So far it hasn't had an incredible negitive affect, and I hope it doesn't in the future.  We're getting into big boy football now (Louisville then the conference slate), and I hope everyone steps up and realizes that. 

I would argue McCardle's 1 rush for 1 fumble was disastorous as possible considering the D's amazing game.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

September 17, 2006, 05:38:11 PM
Reply #4

Dan Rydell

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Regardless of the result of the Louisville game, I think that it's going to benefit us come Big XII time, barring any major injuries.

September 17, 2006, 05:45:05 PM
Reply #5

jmlynch1

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Regardless of the result of the Louisville game, I think that it's going to benefit us come Big XII time, barring any major injuries.

I agree, however, if the team falls apart during conference play and we only pull of two wins, I will definitely be questioning the scheduling.

September 17, 2006, 05:45:48 PM
Reply #6

Dan Rydell

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Regardless of the result of the Louisville game, I think that it's going to benefit us come Big XII time, barring any major injuries.

I agree, however, if the team falls apart during conference play and we only pull of two wins, I will definitely be questioning the scheduling.

Well, sure, for the sake of getting to a bowl.

September 17, 2006, 05:47:43 PM
Reply #7

Fausto

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"I would argue McCardle's 1 rush for 1 fumble was disastorous as possible considering the D's amazing game."

It did not affect the outcome of the game.  

Yes, those of you out there grinding your teeth just waiting for that slip-up which costs K-State a game so you can ultimately point back to Ron Prince and brand him as a loser, that day will come.  It was not yesterday.

September 17, 2006, 06:25:14 PM
Reply #8

cats12ksu

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We can talk and analyze all we want, but to win at the D-1 level, you MUST have a playmaker at QB.  The O-Line gave our QB plenty of time to get the ball to open receivers and it just didn't happen.  Just be glad that our defense is way ahead of our Offense, or this would be long season.  Dylan-PLEASE prove me wrong! 

September 17, 2006, 06:42:58 PM
Reply #9

Kat Kid

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We can talk and analyze all we want, but to win at the D-1 level, you MUST have a playmaker at QB.  The O-Line gave our QB plenty of time to get the ball to open receivers and it just didn't happen.  Just be glad that our defense is way ahead of our Offense, or this would be long season.  Dylan-PLEASE prove me wrong! 

No, you don't.  We need Dylan to manage games and he's almost done that.  Freeman isn't a realistic option for us to be successful, so I really don't know why people discuss this.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

September 17, 2006, 06:49:33 PM
Reply #10

AzCat

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Just because Freeman isn't ready doesn't mean the Meier doesn't suck.  That said I agree that you don't need a playmaker at QB to win in D-I, what you need is a reliable QB who gives his receivers an opportunity to make plays the overwhelming majority of the time.  Meier simply isn't capable of doing that and it's going to start costing us wins very soon.

Personally I thought it was nice to see a bit more Bill Snyder in Prince on the brief FSN postgame interview, "The defense played well, everything else was unacceptable."  I'm relieved that it only took him two weeks to overcome the, "Golly gee but it's tough to win any game and we're just sooooo grateful for the win" bit.

Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 17, 2006, 06:51:38 PM
Reply #11

Wildcat Jack

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Mediocre runblocking O-Line and mediocre RB's -----> start chuckin' the pig for the short stuff.

September 17, 2006, 06:51:58 PM
Reply #12

mjrod

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Just because Freeman isn't ready doesn't mean the Meier doesn't suck.  That said I agree that you don't need a playmaker at QB to win in D-I, what you need is a reliable QB who gives his receivers an opportunity to make plays the overwhelming majority of the time.  Meier simply isn't capable of doing that and it's going to start costing us wins very soon.

Incapable or haven't been able to?


September 17, 2006, 06:53:52 PM
Reply #13

AzCat

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If he'd had this type of start to a season prior to his shoulder surgery it might have been a matter of time until he got on track but he's looked terrible and terribly inconsistent both times I've seen him this year.  I'm sticking with incapable because he just isn't the same.
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 17, 2006, 06:55:09 PM
Reply #14

mjrod

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Playing QB takes a good offensive line to do good things.   I agree that Meier is showing average at best skillz right now, but I've seen him do better, and I'm not so sure it's a system thing.


September 17, 2006, 06:56:50 PM
Reply #15

AzCat

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Most of the time he's getting 3 seconds or more to throw which should be enough but even when he gets the ball off there's not much zip or touch on most of the passes. 
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 17, 2006, 06:58:52 PM
Reply #16

mjrod

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Doesn't have to be.  He's shown a range of throwing power from soft touch to drilling it.

September 17, 2006, 06:59:49 PM
Reply #17

AzCat

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The only pass with much zip on it yesterday was to someone standing about 5 yards away.  Downfield they were all floaters and, often as not, nowhere near the intended target.
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 17, 2006, 07:03:40 PM
Reply #18

mjrod

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I'll watch the tape tomorrow and count.  I don't remember it that way, but I remember some nice touch passes in there.

September 17, 2006, 07:06:50 PM
Reply #19

AzCat

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Even a blind pig gets lucky sometimes MJ.
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

September 17, 2006, 07:07:29 PM
Reply #20

michigancat

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1.  This needs to be said.  This team is well coached.  I hate that I am so wrong about this and maybe it will change once we face some better teams, but there is better special teams, a better D (with a seemingly bigger emphasis on big plays) and an entirely different attitude/atmosphere than we have seen in some time.  The special teams is exactly what I remember those KSU teams on recent vintage (game changing, always a threat forcing teams to think/gameplan it every game.

Agreed.

September 17, 2006, 07:16:47 PM
Reply #21

bigcats

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Playing QB takes a good offensive line to do good things.   I agree that Meier is showing average at best skillz right now, but I've seen him do better, and I'm not so sure it's a system thing.



Meier's problems weren't O-line problems.  He way over threw his recievers the majority of the game.  And the Fox announcers kept saying that the pass kept "sailing" on him.  THose weren't "sailing" passes, just bad passes, plain and simple.  I really wish Prince would have worked with, and tried to keep Evridge in camp, and not run him out of school.  Now the team has to either deal with a damaged QB in Meier, who's showing his wear, or an untested, true freshman.  Wow, alot of options there.  

The defense played awesome against a subpar Marshall team.  And if K-State wants any kind of respectablity after the Louisville game, they better play as good, or better, since the offense sputtered as bad as it did against a below average Marshall defense.

September 17, 2006, 07:55:48 PM
Reply #22

mjrod

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Playing QB takes a good offensive line to do good things.   I agree that Meier is showing average at best skillz right now, but I've seen him do better, and I'm not so sure it's a system thing.



Meier's problems weren't O-line problems.  He way over threw his recievers the majority of the game.  And the Fox announcers kept saying that the pass kept "sailing" on him.  THose weren't "sailing" passes, just bad passes, plain and simple.  I really wish Prince would have worked with, and tried to keep Evridge in camp, and not run him out of school.  Now the team has to either deal with a damaged QB in Meier, who's showing his wear, or an untested, true freshman.  Wow, alot of options there. 

The defense played awesome against a subpar Marshall team.  And if K-State wants any kind of respectablity after the Louisville game, they better play as good, or better, since the offense sputtered as bad as it did against a below average Marshall defense.

Meier, like most QB's aren't going to throw perfect passes everytime, especially when they are being rushed.    Not many QB's in the NFL can throw perfect passes every time.

Like I told AzCat, I'll watch the tape tomorrow and count.   Then I'll let you know.

September 17, 2006, 08:39:14 PM
Reply #23

Racquetball_Ninja

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Doesn't have to be.  He's shown a range of throwing power from soft touch to drilling it.

Have to disagree with you on this MJ, I would say that at best he has average arm strength for a D1 quarterback.  Realistically he falls in the below average percentile.  I've asked this question before and never really gotten an answer:  Could Dylan Meier start for a National Championship contending team... No.  So what exactly should se expect from him... exactly what he is, MEDIOCRE.

September 17, 2006, 08:43:52 PM
Reply #24

mjrod

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Doesn't have to be.  He's shown a range of throwing power from soft touch to drilling it.

Have to disagree with you on this MJ, I would say that at best he has average arm strength for a D1 quarterback.  Realistically he falls in the below average percentile.  I've asked this question before and never really gotten an answer:  Could Dylan Meier start for a National Championship contending team... No.  So what exactly should se expect from him... exactly what he is, MEDIOCRE.

I never said he was a championship QB.  All I've said is that's he average.  My issue is with people who say he has a "noodle" arm.   I also suggest that he's still getting comfortable in this system.  All QB's have to get reps in their system to become effective.   This is his first year in this system and he'll get better.  Whether he gets to play on a championship team, remains to be seen.

September 17, 2006, 08:57:07 PM
Reply #25

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Doesn't have to be.  He's shown a range of throwing power from soft touch to drilling it.

Have to disagree with you on this MJ, I would say that at best he has average arm strength for a D1 quarterback.  Realistically he falls in the below average percentile.  I've asked this question before and never really gotten an answer:  Could Dylan Meier start for a National Championship contending team... No.  So what exactly should se expect from him... exactly what he is, MEDIOCRE.
You know, people said the same thing about Josh Heupel when OU won the NC in 2000. He didn't have the greatest arm strength, especially toward the end of the year. However, he was a very smart QB and was very accurate. He knew right where to put the ball and when to let it go. It's not so much about the arm strength as much as it is about the mind strength.

September 17, 2006, 08:59:22 PM
Reply #26

cats12ksu

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I'm curious what you need to be successful at the D-1 level if you don't need a playmaking quarterback leading the charge?  What do Chad May, Matt Miller, Michael Bishop, Jonathan Beasley and Ell Roberson not have in commom with Dylan Meier? Dylan-PLEASE prove me wrong!   Please look at the top teams annually in college football and let me know who doesn't have a quarterback that makes plays.

September 17, 2006, 09:01:14 PM
Reply #27

mjrod

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I'm curious what you need to be successful at the D-1 level if you don't need a playmaking quarterback leading the charge?  What do Chad May, Matt Miller, Michael Bishop, Jonathan Beasley and Ell Roberson not have in commom with Dylan Meier? Dylan-PLEASE prove me wrong!   Please look at the top teams annually in college football and let me know who doesn't have a quarterback that makes plays.

All of those QB's struggled their first few games in Snyder's new system.

Then look what happened.  This isn't an issue where Dylan should just be the best QB right off the bat.  It takes time.  Name a QB that came into a system in his first year, mastered it by game 3 and was lighting up the field.


September 17, 2006, 09:09:53 PM
Reply #29

cats12ksu

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My only point is that for Kansas State to "compete for championships" you must have a playmaker at quarterback.  I want Dylan to be that playmaker but he is in his 5th year in the system and there are no signs of it yet.  For anyone to think that we will win consistently at KSU without a playmaker at QB is just not real bright.