Hi.

[WilliamTheWildcat]

If the difference were just a gaping chasm...,

Nice descrpition of phognet.  

[WilliamTheWildcat]

Sorry Saul.  Sometimes I forget where I'm at.

[michigancat]

Cause it makes you better a better team.

If the difference were just a gaping chasm, I would probably be more in line with your way of thinking.  Self's still got a bit of time (this season) to make a run into the tourney before I start thinking too negatively about him.  He's currently recruiting at a level that even Roy never did while here, however, and I think there's something to be said for talent winning out in the end.  I guess we'll see.

I think the fact that Roy left like he did is why ku fans are praying Huggins leaves KSU in three years.  He broke your poor lil' hearts.

[fatty fat fat]

In all honestly, Self is kicking RW ass on the recruiting trail (while both were at ku)

But 3-3 in the NCAA's really sucks considering Roy left BS w/the three studs

[PittsburgJayhawk]

I think the fact that Roy left like he did is why ku fans are praying Huggins leaves KSU in three years.  He broke your poor lil' hearts.

I don't think there's any link between the two situations at all.  And I certainly don't think there are any ku fans who are so scared by Huggins that they are literally praying for him to leave Manhattan.  Huggins is a good coach.  He's not a great one, or at least he hasn't been in the past, and there really isn't a body of evidence to suggest that he's a far superior coach to Bill Self.

Also, I think KSU fans have always overstated the sadness, the natural reaction to a "broken heart," ku fans felt at Roy's departure.

[fatty fat fat]

He won at Cinncinatti. Winning at KSU will be a piece of cake.

Huggs has never recruited as well as he is now.

That is a scary thought.

[PittsburgJayhawk]

That's certainly an interesting take, fatty.

[michigancat]

I think the fact that Roy left like he did is why ku fans are praying Huggins leaves KSU in three years.  He broke your poor lil' hearts.

I don't think there's any link between the two situations at all.  And I certainly don't think there are any ku fans who are so scared by Huggins that they are literally praying for him to leave Manhattan.

No.  Pretty sure 95% of ku fans literally get down on their knees and pray that Bob Huggins leaves Manhattan ASAP.

Huggins is a good coach.  He's not a great one, or at least he hasn't been in the past, and there really isn't a body of evidence to suggest that he's a far superior coach to Bill Self.

It definitely goes both ways - you can't reasonably argue Bill Self is far superior to Huggs, either.  The mere fact that ku and KSU have coaches who are nearly equal is great*.

*for KSU fans

[michigancat]

He won at Cinncinatti. Winning at KSU will be a piece of cake.

Huggs has never recruited as well as he is now.

That is a scary thought.*

*For ku fans

Check pm's Pitt

[PittsburgJayhawk]

I think the fact that Roy left like he did is why ku fans are praying Huggins leaves KSU in three years.  He broke your poor lil' hearts.

I don't think there's any link between the two situations at all.  And I certainly don't think there are any ku fans who are so scared by Huggins that they are literally praying for him to leave Manhattan.

No.  Pretty sure 95% of ku fans literally get down on their knees and pray that Bob Huggins leaves Manhattan ASAP.

Huggins is a good coach.  He's not a great one, or at least he hasn't been in the past, and there really isn't a body of evidence to suggest that he's a far superior coach to Bill Self.

It definitely goes both ways - you can't reasonably argue Bill Self is far superior to Huggs, either.  The mere fact that ku and KSU have coaches who are nearly equal is great*.

*for KSU fans

You're right.  It can't be reasonably argued that Self is a far superior coach to Huggins. 

I think, however, that he does have a significant head start in terms of recruiting, program status, etc.  I think that Huggy really NEEDS Walker, Mayo, and Beasley to end up on campus for a year, because if those three were in Manhattan, as hard as it is for me to admit, KSU would have a hell of a shot at a deep tourney run.  That could kickstart recruiting and provide momentum that Huggy could use to restore KSU's basketball status.

What I don't understand, however, is the KSU mentality (At least my perception of it) that KSU's rise coincides with ku's fall.  There really aren't any indicators of this coming to pass.

[waks]

basketball board

[michigancat]

I think, however, that he does have a significant head start in terms of recruiting, program status, etc.  I think that Huggy really NEEDS Walker, Mayo, and Beasley to end up on campus for a year, because if those three were in Manhattan, as hard as it is for me to admit, KSU would have a hell of a shot at a deep tourney run.  That could kickstart recruiting and provide momentum that Huggy could use to restore KSU's basketball status.

Huggins is going to have a better first "full year" recruiting class than Self.  No question.  He'll land a recruit ranked higher than any Self recruit, and a recruit that ranks only behind Julian Wright, and he has a decent shot at the #1 recruit in the country.  He's also in on a ton of top 40 talent for 2008.  From 2007 on, recruiting will likely be a wash.

What I don't understand, however, is the KSU mentality (At least my perception of it) that KSU's rise coincides with ku's fall.  There really aren't any indicators of this coming to pass.

No one thinks ku is falling more than they already have since Roy left.  ku fans invented this mentality...sys put it well:

why would you assume ku will fall merely because ksu rises? that goes beyond concern and touches on insecurity. y'all have too much tradition to be so small-minded.

[PittsburgJayhawk]

I think, however, that he does have a significant head start in terms of recruiting, program status, etc.  I think that Huggy really NEEDS Walker, Mayo, and Beasley to end up on campus for a year, because if those three were in Manhattan, as hard as it is for me to admit, KSU would have a hell of a shot at a deep tourney run.  That could kickstart recruiting and provide momentum that Huggy could use to restore KSU's basketball status.

Huggins is going to have a better first "full year" recruiting class than Self.  No question.  He'll land a recruit ranked higher than any Self recruit, and a recruit that ranks only behind Julian Wright, and he has a decent shot at the #1 recruit in the country.  He's also in on a ton of top 40 talent for 2008.  From 2007 on, recruiting will likely be a wash.

What I don't understand, however, is the KSU mentality (At least my perception of it) that KSU's rise coincides with ku's fall.  There really aren't any indicators of this coming to pass.

No one thinks ku is falling more than they already have since Roy left.  ku fans invented this mentality...sys put it well:

why would you assume ku will fall merely because ksu rises? that goes beyond concern and touches on insecurity. y'all have too much tradition to be so small-minded.

Hmmm.  I think attributing Huggy's first recruiting class solely to his innate recruiting ability, which is what you seem to be doing, is wrong.  I think this first class is an anomaly, and has to be considered as such until class #2 starts to solidify.  Huggins operated from outside the boundaries of NCAA Regulations to assist in his relationship-building with Mayo and Walker.  Now, please note that I'm not condemning that action; if Self were in a similar situation as Huggins, I'd have wanted him to do the exact same thing.  But it does skew the perception of his actual ability to recruit a bit.

I'll wait to judge Huggins as a recruiter, especially in comparison to Self, until he's under the same limitations and restrictions.

As far as the idea of ku falling being a ku invention, perhaps that is the case.  I disagree, because that's not what the purple flood over on Phog.net seems to say.  It's possible, however, that my Crimson and Blue glasses are skewing things.

[michigancat]

Hmmm.  I think attributing Huggy's first recruiting class solely to his innate recruiting ability, which is what you seem to be doing, is wrong.  I think this first class is an anomaly, and has to be considered as such until class #2 starts to solidify.  Huggins operated from outside the boundaries of NCAA Regulations to assist in his relationship-building with Mayo and Walker.  Now, please note that I'm not condemning that action; if Self were in a similar situation as Huggins, I'd have wanted him to do the exact same thing.  But it does skew the perception of his actual ability to recruit a bit.

He had Walker and Mayo long before he took his year off.  You know they're both from Huntington, WV, right?  I'm also assuming you also know where North College Hill is located. 

Also, like I said, Huggins is already in on a great deal of top 40 talent for 2008.

As far as the idea of ku falling being a ku invention, perhaps that is the case.  I disagree, because that's not what the purple flood over on Phog.net seems to say.  It's possible, however, that my Crimson and Blue glasses are skewing things.

You probably are reading too much into KSU fans' comments.  When I was allowed to post on phog.net, I never said ku was going to get worse because of Huggins, or that KSU would instantly be in the Final Four, but judging from responses, that's how my posts were interpereted.

[PittsburgJayhawk]

Hmmm.  I think attributing Huggy's first recruiting class solely to his innate recruiting ability, which is what you seem to be doing, is wrong.  I think this first class is an anomaly, and has to be considered as such until class #2 starts to solidify.  Huggins operated from outside the boundaries of NCAA Regulations to assist in his relationship-building with Mayo and Walker.  Now, please note that I'm not condemning that action; if Self were in a similar situation as Huggins, I'd have wanted him to do the exact same thing.  But it does skew the perception of his actual ability to recruit a bit.

He had Walker and Mayo long before he took his year off.  You know they're both from Huntington, WV, right?  I'm also assuming you also know where North College Hill is located. 

Also, like I said, Huggins is already in on a great deal of top 40 talent for 2008.

As far as the idea of ku falling being a ku invention, perhaps that is the case.  I disagree, because that's not what the purple flood over on Phog.net seems to say.  It's possible, however, that my Crimson and Blue glasses are skewing things.

You probably are reading too much into KSU fans' comments.  When I was allowed to post on phog.net, I never said ku was going to get worse because of Huggins, or that KSU would instantly be in the Final Four, but judging from responses, that's how my posts were interpereted.

It was my understanding that Walker an Mayo both played their high school ball in Cincinnatti.  Is this not true?

I understand that Huggy is in on a great deal of 2008 talent as well, though I think that in order for him to continue to recruit at the level he is now (Beasley, Mayo, Walker, etc.), he's going to have to a) land the big 3, or at least two of them, and b) win while he has them in town.

ku fans love to harp on this, to exhaustion, but I don't think it's an unreasonable point: It's unlikely that Mayo and Walker, at the very least, will be in Manhattan very long.

Essentially, I think Huggy's window for success (Meaning, his ability to make KSU elite) is smaller than KSU fans are thinking.  But if he does hit a homerun, there's no reason why KSU can't be competing with ku not only for recruits, but for national standing, prestige, etc.

[pissclams]

I'll wait to judge Huggins as a recruiter, especially in comparison to Self, until he's under the same limitations and restrictions.

Why ignore the past? By past I'm speaking not of his year away from NCAA rules & regulations on recruiting; I'm talking about his years at Cincinatti?  Is it easier to ignore the fact that 9 of his last 10 recruiting classes at UC were ranked in the Top 10 instead of accept it? GMAFB.
 

[michigancat]

It was my understanding that Walker an Mayo both played their high school ball in Cincinnatti.  Is this not true?

Yeah, but they're both from Huntington, WV.  I wonder why they ended up in Cincinnati?

I understand that Huggy is in on a great deal of 2008 talent as well, though I think that in order for him to continue to recruit at the level he is now (Beasley, Mayo, Walker, etc.), he's going to have to a) land the big 3, or at least two of them, and b) win while he has them in town.

Well, so far, so good.

Essentially, I think Huggy's window for success (Meaning, his ability to make KSU elite) is smaller than KSU fans are thinking.  But if he does hit a homerun, there's no reason why KSU can't be competing with ku not only for recruits, but for national standing, prestige, etc.

To me, Huggins is successful even if he doesn't make KSU "elite".  Before KSU hired Huggins, my stated goal for KSU Men's basketball was to be firmly in the NCAA tournament every year.  I'm sure Bob disagrees with me, but anything above that is just a freaking bonus.  I'll be quite happy if Huggins goes back to signing a couple top 100 players a year and losing to lower seeds in the NCAA tournament.

[ksuno1stunner]

It was my understanding that Walker an Mayo both played their high school ball in Cincinnatti.  Is this not true?

Yeah, but they're both from Huntington, WV.  I wonder why they ended up in Cincinnati?

I understand that Huggy is in on a great deal of 2008 talent as well, though I think that in order for him to continue to recruit at the level he is now (Beasley, Mayo, Walker, etc.), he's going to have to a) land the big 3, or at least two of them, and b) win while he has them in town.

Well, so far, so good.

Essentially, I think Huggy's window for success (Meaning, his ability to make KSU elite) is smaller than KSU fans are thinking.  But if he does hit a homerun, there's no reason why KSU can't be competing with ku not only for recruits, but for national standing, prestige, etc.

To me, Huggins is successful even if he doesn't make KSU "elite".  Before KSU hired Huggins, my stated goal for KSU Men's basketball was to be firmly in the NCAA tournament every year.  I'm sure Bob disagrees with me, but anything above that is just a freaking bonus.  I'll be quite happy if Huggins goes back to signing a couple top 100 players a year and losing to lower seeds in the NCAA tournament.

if ksu experiences the success he's had at cincy i'll crap a canary

and it appears we'll have a good chance of living up to the expectations cincy had

[sonofdaxjones]

Rusty ... you're throwing a big wet blanket on my hopes for a 1000 page thread on "I want a National Championship".

 

[pissclams]

MCMW
2155

[waks]

I'll wait to judge Huggins as a recruiter, especially in comparison to Self, until he's under the same limitations and restrictions.

Why ignore the past? By past I'm speaking not of his year away from NCAA rules & regulations on recruiting; I'm talking about his years at Cincinatti?  Is it easier to ignore the fact that 9 of his last 10 recruiting classes at UC were ranked in the Top 10 instead of accept it? GMAFB.
 

he's obviously a good recruiter. atleast he knows how to get players wherever the hell he wants to. what other coach would have been able to organize what Huggs is doing with the Walker situation??? HUGGINS = Genius.

[Andy]

the reason i believe huggs will continue to recruit at the highest level is all the connections he has with aau coaches and prep schools.  fostering those relationships while he was out of work has to be the biggest advantage he created/improved upon.  one that can be easily maintained.