06 starters vs. 05 starters

[MrWhite]

i figured with all the folks around here melting down over the scout team qb situation, we should actually take a look at our starters.  my analysis is horrid and inaccurate, so please correct as necessary.

the game 1 starting lineup for 2005, and a better/worse prediction for 06 -

wr - yamon figurs - better with experience
lt - jeromey clary - significant drop off here
lg - matt boss - better with experience
c - jacob voegeli - better with Bedore and experience
rg - john hafferty - likely Wafford, significant improvement
rt - greg wafford - significant drop off here
te - rashaad norwood - better with experience
qb - allen webb - better with meier or freeman
rb - thomas clayton - better with experience or james johnson
wr - jordy nelson - better with experience
wr - davin dennis - better with moreira or ced wilson

overall -- significantly better with experience and some talent upgrade at skill positions.  if the ot's step it up, this will be a much, much better unit.


de - blake seiler - minor dropoff due to inexperience
dt - quinton echols - better with experience
dt - alphonso moran - better with experience or seiler or balkcom
de - tearrius george - better with jackson, manu or childs
slb - brandon archer - better with experience
mlb - ted sims - much better with an experienced diles
wlb - maurice mack - much better with an experienced reggie walker
ss - kyle williams - better with experience
cb - bryan baldwin - better with experience
cb - byron garvin - better with experience or mckinney or cheatham
fs - marcus watts - better with experience

overall -- much, much better unit due to experience and depth at lb and in the secondary.

[FBWillie]

You forgot one important element.

Bill Snyder > Any other coach

[opcat]

But Seiler is on first team ! 

[michigancat]

1)  We sucked last year.
2)  Some of your picks are odd.  Seiler > Moran?  Meier, Freeman > Webb?, etc.

[MrWhite]

the only way seiler is first team is if he beats out echols or moran, right?  i'll go out on a limb and guess that if he's able to beat them out, he'll be better.

and while webb had his moments, meier started over him when both were healthy, and webb played with the consistency of a true freshman.

and i agree that Snyder >>>>>>>>> prince, but i think on the defensive side of the ball, at least, we've upgraded coaching as well.

[michigancat]

the only way seiler is first team is if he beats out echols or moran, right?  i'll go out on a limb and guess that if he's able to beat them out, he'll be better.

and while webb had his moments, meier started over him when both were healthy, and webb played with the consistency of a true freshman.

and i agree that Snyder >>>>>>>>> prince, but i think on the defensive side of the ball, at least, we've upgraded coaching as well.

Moran has to pass his physical exam.  Players regress from year to year, especially fat, lazy ones, i.e. Echols from '03 to '04.

Webb's QB rating last year was higher than any QB in the last 2 years, HDM in 04 included.

[MrWhite]

good point.  we should just assume that players get worse every year they play.  you're a fuggin genius.

and webb had a shiny rating because he only attempted about 100 passes on the year.  he attempted less than 15 passes per game played

that's why you don't see webb here:  http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2006&div=4&rpt=IA_playerpasseff&site=org

let's not be scary stupid, ok?

[michigancat]

good point.  we should just assume that players get worse every year they play.  you're a fuggin genius.

Moran has already missed at least 1/4 of preseason practices because he's fat and out of shape.  Same with Wafford.  Toss in a completely new system, position changes everywhere and I'm sure the strengths of our offense and defense (the lines) and you have a wonderful recipe for "significant improvements".

and webb had a shiny rating because he only attempted about 100 passes on the year.  he attempted less than 15 passes per game played

Well, that and the fact that he completed a high % of passes, threw a lot of TD's, and didn't throw a lot of interceptions.  He had as many TD's in 105 attempts (9) as Dylan did in 04 with 220 attempts.  What was that important Evridge stat you kept throwing around to declare him a bad QB?



p.s.  Next time you post a highly opinionated rating of current and past players, don't let your feelings get hurt if someone questions them.

[fatty fat fat]

Couldn't agree more with Rusty here, but Webb's stats are a bit inflated from the UNT and Fla Int. game.

But the bottom-line is he actually LED us to 4th quarter combacks twice, while Dylan had the chance to do it vs ku and AtM and failed both times. The defense sucked vs Mizzou both times as well...so that is a crapty excuse.

[ksuno1stunner]

you might want to factor in the rest of the big 12

[Racquetball_Ninja]

Couldn't agree more with Rusty here, but Webb's stats are a bit inflated from the UNT and Fla Int. game.

But the bottom-line is he actually LED us to 4th quarter combacks twice, while Dylan had the chance to do it vs ku and AtM and failed both times. The defense sucked vs Mizzou both times as well...so that is a @#%$ty excuse.

Fatty, wouldn't that be one 4th quarter comeback?  I'm thinking that if Brandon Archer doesn't intercept that pass and take in in for 6 we find a way to s h * t that game away. 

[MrWhite]

rusty -- i knew you liked dick, but i didn't know you were a c@cksucker.  thanks for clarifying.

first you question why we might be better off at DT with seiler replacing moran, then you go off about moran missing practices?

if moran is a fat lazy SOB, then we'll be better off with seiler or balkcom, which was my point.

make your mind up, either we improve at the spot by replacing moran, or we don't.

here's a tip about moran -- YAMON FIGURS had more solo tackles in 2005 than moran did.  we're going to improve at that position.

care to back up your words?  last year the starting spot played by moran (played in every game) generated 9 solo tackles.  i'll bet that starting spot gets more solo tackles this year. 

as for webb, when a guy throws 105 passes, and less than 15 a game, you don't have enough data to judge him as a passing qb.  only a complete moron would jump up and down on a rating based on 105 attempts and 13 pass attempts per game.

webb threw 6 of his 9 tds against florida international, marshall and north texas.  he had 3 tds against league competition.
meier matched that in one game -- at texas a&m -- in 2005.

and don't forget -- webb had 5 interceptions in 105 pass attempts versus meier's 5 in 200+.

[fatty fat fat]

Webb also has WON big 12 games.

[michigancat]

rusty -- i knew you liked dick, but i didn't know you were a c@cksucker.  thanks for clarifying.

first you question why we might be better off at DT with seiler replacing moran, then you go off about moran missing practices?

if moran is a fat lazy SOB, then we'll be better off with seiler or balkcom, which was my point.

make your mind up, either we improve at the spot by replacing moran, or we don't.

here's a tip about moran -- YAMON FIGURS had more solo tackles in 2005 than moran did.  we're going to improve at that position.

care to back up your words?  last year the starting spot played by moran (played in every game) generated 9 solo tackles.  i'll bet that starting spot gets more solo tackles this year. 

as for webb, when a guy throws 105 passes, and less than 15 a game, you don't have enough data to judge him as a passing qb.  only a complete moron would jump up and down on a rating based on 105 attempts and 13 pass attempts per game.

webb threw 6 of his 9 tds against florida international, marshall and north texas.  he had 3 tds against league competition.
meier matched that in one game -- at texas a&m -- in 2005.

and don't forget -- webb had 5 interceptions in 105 pass attempts versus meier's 5 in 200+.

As fatty said, Webb won more games (Big XII and overall).  I don't know if winning matters to you or not, but it's usually what matters most to most fans.

Also, it is not a foregone conclusion that we will be better at any position on either line.  IMO, the safest bet is Echols improving, and that could be a stretch if he's in worse shape than last year.

[MrWhite]

rusty -- do you take the bet on moran's spot?  I say we'll improve on 9 solo tackles from our starter there.  you disagreed with my comments about improving.  do you really disagree, or are you just being a whiny little @!#$?

i agree webb had his moments, thats why i mentioned his consistency.  if webb were to start this season, i'm sure we'd win 4 games.

but your comments about his passing efficiency are so incredibly stupid as to defy comprehension.  if you stick with that line of arguement, you're dumber than i thought --> which would be quite the accomplishment.

[fatty fat fat]

Rusty, you've got to assume these guys are going to get better...unless of course Raheem is just clueless.


Heading into 2005, we returned only 8 starters. We should have known it was going to be a struggle. Not the case this year.

[michigancat]

Rusty, you've got to assume these guys are going to get better...unless of course Raheem is just clueless.


Heading into 2005, we returned only 8 starters. We should have known it was going to be a struggle. Not the case this year.

Yeah, I just tend to focus on the lines too much.  That has been our downfall the last two years.  You're right, RB's, LB's, DB's, WR's, TE's should improve. 

[fatty fat fat]

I also don't see the O-Line getting much better.

[chum1]

You're right, RB's, LB's, DB's, WR's, TE's should improve.

The claim is that they'll be significantly better.  If they are, it won't be because of the experience they gained by being on last year's sucky team.

[Andy]

while Dylan had the chance to do it vs ku

after webb dug the hole about as deep as it could be

[Dan Rydell]

Yeah, I just tend to focus on the lines too much.

 

Impossible.  You give me the best lines in the Big XII on both sides of the ball, and I'll win the Big XII North with average players at the skill positions.  You give me the best QB in the Big XII with mediocre lines, and I'll finish 5-7 or worse.  Everything is built off the lines on both sides of the ball.  It doesn't matter how much the skill positions improve if the line play is still crappy.  If it is again this year, then it will also be our downfall again.

[Poopley]

this thread blows.






bump.