Date: 02/08/25 - 09:04 AM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Azcat & other attorney scum: Thoughts on SCOTUS Session?  (Read 989 times)

June 26, 2008, 09:53:16 AM
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Kat Kid

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For me:

Good:  Heller- skimmed and Scalia seemed coherent and he didn't reference '24' or dubious administration figures (unless you count the Framers), Souter's dissent seemed forced

Indifferent/Ok:  Kennedy- In principle, I think that states should decide what constitutes a just consequence.  If a state is conducting reckless executions (like for stealing candy) they should be reigned in by the legislature or the court.  This ruling effects what, 2 people?  Child rapists are scum, but victims rights advocates constantly set up horrific straw men to push b.s. laws down our throats.  Setting up an online database that stores the names of people that got caught pissing in public, sucking an adult dick, and all the other dolphins in that tuna net are not worth the cost.  Just like MADD ridiculously pushed until Minor in Possession of Alcohol has a 30 day license suspension. :curse:  Ideally should the court insert itself in this battle?  No.  Practically in the world we live in should the court rule this way?  I don't know.  Do I like the push back against the ingrate mother&@#%ers who take to the airs every night for victim's rights and distort our justice system into some sort of revenge provider?  Yes.

Bad:  Exxon-  Judicial activism! :runaway:
ksufanscopycat my friends.

June 26, 2008, 11:29:59 AM
Reply #1

PCR

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Did you write this before the handgun ruling?  I guess the gun lobby got to Kennedy and convinced him to go along with Scalia's "literal" interpretation of the constitution where a well regulated militia=me.  I'm a well regulated militia now according to the court!  Their ruling makes no sense whatsoever, it's just pandering to the conservatives and the gun manufacturers. 

June 26, 2008, 11:33:59 AM
Reply #2

Kat Kid

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Did you write this before the handgun ruling?  I guess the gun lobby got to Kennedy and convinced him to go along with Scalia's "literal" interpretation of the constitution where a well regulated militia=me.  I'm a well regulated militia now according to the court!  Their ruling makes no sense whatsoever, it's just pandering to the conservatives and the gun manufacturers. 

I think the Constitution is pretty clear about gun ownership rights.  I probably won't ever own a gun, ideally I would like less guns etc. but I think the Constitution is pretty clear.  I would like to see a strict interpretation of the Bill of Rights.  If we're going to do it for the 2nd, I get the 1st and 5th.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

June 26, 2008, 11:36:19 AM
Reply #3

steve dave

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I like Scalia a lot.  Does his job and nothing else. 
<---------Click the ball

June 26, 2008, 11:44:11 AM
Reply #4

PCR

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Pretty clear how?   I think people should be allowed to own guns, but I also think the government should be able to regulate gun ownership to some extent.  This ruling severely limits that ability.  I think if you want the protections of the constitution you should have to join a gun club (which would logically mean registering your firearms as well.) 

June 26, 2008, 11:48:11 AM
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Kat Kid

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Pretty clear how?   I think people should be allowed to own guns, but I also think the government should be able to regulate gun ownership to some extent.  This ruling severely limits that ability.  I think if you want the protections of the constitution you should have to join a gun club (which would logically mean registering your firearms as well.) 

Here is my general theory:

Does it help the Cops/Govt?

Yes- I probably hate it
No- I probably love it, reluctantly support it

Basically I support criminal's rights.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

June 26, 2008, 12:12:41 PM
Reply #6

AzCat

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Practically in the world we live in should the court rule this way?  I don't know.

No they should not.  Federal judges are inherently unaccountable and should therefore exercise great restraint in their decisions but judicial activism from the left has greatly eroded that sort of thinking over the past half-century or so.  Congress could, of course, remove from the purview of the federal courts the sorts of things they should not be meddling in but the left would have the meltdown of the century if Congress were to exercise that power. 

I've not had time to more than skim a few of the opinions but:

Heller - Proper decision but it's frightening that four of the nine don't believe that Americans have the right to won firearms, our Bill of Rights should not be placed in jeopardy at the whim of unelected federal bureaucrats.  It's encouraging that the majority opinion explicitly found a right to possession in the home for self-defense as this will vitiate nonsense like the "trigger-locked and/or disassembled" nonsense in DC.  Look for the crime rate in DC (well the crime rate outside of government buildings anyway) to plummet. 

Rothgery - No one but lawyers will care but accused persons won't have their right to counsel placed in jeopardy by fine-line distinctions drawn by local politicians, judges & law enforcement.  This is a good thing, the system needs to be both fair and conprehensible.

Exxon - Punitive damages are a significant problem in our system.  Juries are too willing to award them and too willing to overindulge when awarding them.  Everyone who suffers misfortune views that misfortune as a winning lottery ticket.  As a signal to lower courts to reign in excessive punitive damage awards I like this.  Hopefully this is the beginning of a pro-business tide in the courts.   :lol:

Giles - Giles kills his girlfriend then argues that her prior statements against his interest made to police before he killed her are not admissible because they violate his Constitutional right to confront hostile witnesses ... and the Court agrees.  And libs think the system is biased against the criminals?    :blank:

Kennedy - The Court continues a long line of cases which see them drifting left on the issue of the death penalty.  Consider the court's previous prohibition of the death penalty for: the rape of an adult woman (Coker); muder committed by a mentally impaired person (Atkins); and murder committed by a minor (Roper); in light of this line of cases Kennedy (barring the death penalty for raping a child) hardly comes as a surprise.  Money quote I think by the majority, "When the law punishes by death, it risks its own sudden descent into brutality, transgressing the constitutional commitment to decency and restraint."  I expect with that sort of sentiment on the Court we'll see a complete abolition of the death penalty in the next few years.  I believe Justice Kennedy earlier this term or last upheld the Constitutionality of lethal injection as not being cruel and unusual punishment while here he finds an execution by that method to effectively be cruel and unusual punishment. Time for a retirement.

Bismullah - Although the libs are cheering, this is a dangerous precedent and will likely have the unintended consequence of significantly worsening the treatment of captured persons.  The Court left open the possibility of simply handing detainees over to foreign governments.  Does anyone really believe, for example, that the Chinese Muslim dissident about the be removed from Gitmo will receive better treatment if the administration simply hands him over to China?  Not good that.  I predict many summary executions of soon-to-be former Gitmo detainees by their home countries as I can't imagine that we're going to just put these folks back on the street.  If Bismullah pokes the proverbial camel's nose of rights under the US Constitution under the tent flap of the battlefield this decision will effectively eliminate the ability of US troops to take prisoners during wartime, I don't think it goes that far but it's clearly walking down that road.  Consider that under this decision a battlefield execution of an enemy combatant might be legal but the detainment of the same person on US soil in live form might not ... unless they've been read them their Miranda rights, have been provided an attorney, and have been extended all of the Consitutional protections afforded to accused persons in the US.  This effectively overrules all previous law regarding the detainment of persons captured in battle.  In the long run this case may be a footnote or an utter disaster, I'd wager the latter but time will tell.

Meacham - Opens the door to a new flood of "age discrimination" litigation by placing new burdens on business.  Will ship more jobs overseas at the margins.  Not good.

Defenders of Wildlife - In declining to hear the appeal by Defenders of Wildlife the Court quite sanely placed border security above lefty tree huggers and haters of progress.  Of course it was merely a well-settled question of the Executive's right to delegate authority so there was really no decision to make but the court deserves a round of applause for not opening this can of worms.  Next term when they slap down the ban on sonar use off the California coast we'll be rolling in the right direction with respect to endangered species. 

Others you want comments on KK?
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

June 26, 2008, 12:15:14 PM
Reply #7

AzCat

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Pretty clear how?   I think people should be allowed to own guns, but I also think the government should be able to regulate gun ownership to some extent.  This ruling severely limits that ability. 

It does no such thing.  Regulation of gun sales and ownership are still firmly and explicity within the bounds of the Constitution under this decision.  The only sort of regulation that is out the window is the sort they had in DC which required that any guns kept in the home be rendered completely inoperable (and therefore useless for self-defense).  Forcing all firearms owned to be kept in inoperable condition is essentially prohibiting the ownership of firearms, there's very little difference.  This was actually a very sane & balanced decision.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 12:16:55 PM by Åz©a† »
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June 26, 2008, 12:31:41 PM
Reply #8

Kat Kid

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Thanks Azcat.  You don't really seem quite up to it today though.

Quote
unless they've been read them their Miranda rights, have been provided an attorney, and have been extended all of the Consitutional protections afforded to accused persons in the US

african american please.  The ruling expressly does not grant them all Constitutional protections.

I seriously don't understand why, if you think the court is suspect/overpolitical/composed of a plurality of marginally retarded people you would like them intervening in any overtly ridiculous cases like Exxon.  Yeah, they ruled in your favor this time.  But wtf?

This is why I am STRONGLY opposed to people throwing out Hillary's name for a SCOTUS spot.  R U SRSLY?  What's next, appointing Yoo to the bench?  The court is already clearly politicized and ridiculous, let's at least pretend that's not the case.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

June 26, 2008, 12:33:11 PM
Reply #9

Kat Kid

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Pretty clear how?   I think people should be allowed to own guns, but I also think the government should be able to regulate gun ownership to some extent.  This ruling severely limits that ability.

It does no such thing.  Regulation of gun sales and ownership are still firmly and explicity within the bounds of the Constitution under this decision.  The only sort of regulation that is out the window is the sort they had in DC which required that any guns kept in the home be rendered completely inoperable (and therefore useless for self-defense).  Forcing all firearms owned to be kept in inoperable condition is essentially prohibiting the ownership of firearms, there's very little difference.  This was actually a very sane & balanced decision.

I agree.  I was happy Scalia limited his self-righteous ass and the Court deemed that tons of other legislation is permissible (like closing the gun show loophole, tighter registration guidelines etc.)
ksufanscopycat my friends.

June 26, 2008, 12:54:33 PM
Reply #10

AzCat

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african american please.  The ruling expressly does not grant them all Constitutional protections.

This isn't the end of the issue, it's a first tentative step in a forthcoming line of cases and that line of cases is going to happen no matter who appoints the next few S.Ct. justices.  Even if McCain is elected he's going to have a VERY left-wing Senate that won't allow an up/down vote on the next Roberts or Alito should he attempt to appoint a sane Justice.  They'll demand, and he will give them, lefties.  And Obama?  LOL.  If you think the Court is political now ....

I seriously don't understand why, if you think the court is suspect/overpolitical/composed of a plurality of marginally retarded people you would like them intervening in any overtly ridiculous cases like Exxon.  Yeah, they ruled in your favor this time.  But wtf?

This is why I am STRONGLY opposed to people throwing out Hillary's name for a SCOTUS spot.  R U SRSLY?  What's next, appointing Yoo to the bench?  The court is already clearly politicized and ridiculous, let's at least pretend that's not the case.

Ginsburg is the only real idealogue on the Court.  Kennedy seems to be getting a bit senile but that has nothing to do with politics.  The others are fairly capable and seem to at least try to call 'em as they see 'em rather than pushing agendas 100% of the time (ala Ginsburg). 

Exxon was a proper decision because punitive damage awards, and litigation generally, are waaaay out of control.  I'm interested in seeing more Americans make more money and have higher standards of living.  I'm interested in the progress and improvement of the nation.  Jackpot justice only enriches trial lawyers and a lucky few both of which are parasites on society at large.  Hate on Exxon all you want but this decision is good for the county and the average American and bad for trial lawyers and jackpot justice plaintiffs, that's a win/win in my book.
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

June 26, 2008, 12:59:47 PM
Reply #11

Kat Kid

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african american please.  The ruling expressly does not grant them all Constitutional protections.

This isn't the end of the issue, it's a first tentative step in a forthcoming line of cases and that line of cases is going to happen no matter who appoints the next few S.Ct. justices.  Even if McCain is elected he's going to have a VERY left-wing Senate that won't allow an up/down vote on the next Roberts or Alito should he attempt to appoint a sane Justice.  They'll demand, and he will give them, lefties.  And Obama?  LOL.  If you think the Court is political now ....

I seriously don't understand why, if you think the court is suspect/overpolitical/composed of a plurality of marginally retarded people you would like them intervening in any overtly ridiculous cases like Exxon.  Yeah, they ruled in your favor this time.  But wtf?

This is why I am STRONGLY opposed to people throwing out Hillary's name for a SCOTUS spot.  R U SRSLY?  What's next, appointing Yoo to the bench?  The court is already clearly politicized and ridiculous, let's at least pretend that's not the case.

Ginsburg is the only real idealogue on the Court.  Kennedy seems to be getting a bit senile but that has nothing to do with politics.  The others are fairly capable and seem to at least try to call 'em as they see 'em rather than pushing agendas 100% of the time (ala Ginsburg). 

Exxon was a proper decision because punitive damage awards, and litigation generally, are waaaay out of control.  I'm interested in seeing more Americans make more money and have higher standards of living.  I'm interested in the progress and improvement of the nation.  Jackpot justice only enriches trial lawyers and a lucky few both of which are parasites on society at large.  Hate on Exxon all you want but this decision is good for the county and the average American and bad for trial lawyers and jackpot justice plaintiffs, that's a win/win in my book.

But those desires on your part are ideological ends through policy.  You should just ask the legislature (or better yet states) to have limits or EVEN BETTER let the states and EXXON negotiate out contracts that stipulate caps on settlements or EXXON takes its business to China or whatever.  Why would you let the court carry your water for you if the fundamental issues (the court having the ability to step in and &@#% with stuff like this) are b.s.?
ksufanscopycat my friends.

June 26, 2008, 01:22:59 PM
Reply #12

AzCat

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african american please.  The ruling expressly does not grant them all Constitutional protections.

This isn't the end of the issue, it's a first tentative step in a forthcoming line of cases and that line of cases is going to happen no matter who appoints the next few S.Ct. justices.  Even if McCain is elected he's going to have a VERY left-wing Senate that won't allow an up/down vote on the next Roberts or Alito should he attempt to appoint a sane Justice.  They'll demand, and he will give them, lefties.  And Obama?  LOL.  If you think the Court is political now ....

I seriously don't understand why, if you think the court is suspect/overpolitical/composed of a plurality of marginally retarded people you would like them intervening in any overtly ridiculous cases like Exxon.  Yeah, they ruled in your favor this time.  But wtf?

This is why I am STRONGLY opposed to people throwing out Hillary's name for a SCOTUS spot.  R U SRSLY?  What's next, appointing Yoo to the bench?  The court is already clearly politicized and ridiculous, let's at least pretend that's not the case.

Ginsburg is the only real idealogue on the Court.  Kennedy seems to be getting a bit senile but that has nothing to do with politics.  The others are fairly capable and seem to at least try to call 'em as they see 'em rather than pushing agendas 100% of the time (ala Ginsburg). 

Exxon was a proper decision because punitive damage awards, and litigation generally, are waaaay out of control.  I'm interested in seeing more Americans make more money and have higher standards of living.  I'm interested in the progress and improvement of the nation.  Jackpot justice only enriches trial lawyers and a lucky few both of which are parasites on society at large.  Hate on Exxon all you want but this decision is good for the county and the average American and bad for trial lawyers and jackpot justice plaintiffs, that's a win/win in my book.

But those desires on your part are ideological ends through policy.  You should just ask the legislature (or better yet states) to have limits or EVEN BETTER let the states and EXXON negotiate out contracts that stipulate caps on settlements or EXXON takes its business to China or whatever.  Why would you let the court carry your water for you if the fundamental issues (the court having the ability to step in and frack with stuff like this) are b.s.?

You should study the history and development of our laws and get back to me on whether today's civil awards are in line or not in line with centuries of precedent.
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

June 26, 2008, 03:12:14 PM
Reply #13

cireksu

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what's today's version of an ordeal in monetary terms?