Author Topic: The impact of AE getting forced out on recruiting (Read 2683 times)

michigancat · August 10, 2006, 08:34:34 AM

Do you think opposing coaches will let those "clean out the locker" theatrics go unnoticed?

Every future recruit is going to hear about this. I hope Prince has a good explanation.

WILDCAT NATION · August 10, 2006, 08:36:13 AM

You kiddin' me? Those D-2 recruits would be honored to have RP clean out their lockers...

sonofdaxjones · August 10, 2006, 09:18:56 AM

WWJWD

(What Would Jack Welch Do)

Fausto · August 10, 2006, 09:37:14 AM

"What Would Jack Welch Do"

Last year, arguably the best two players on the team were a former walk-on (Jordy) and grayshirt (Marcus Watts). Two walk-ons were listed on the 2-deep at DE, one of the weaker positions on the field over the past few years. Yes, Bill Snyder's recent recruiting was just so great that I am incredibly upset those recruits are leaving. What are we going to do?

Folks, things changed when Snyder left. The players knew no matter who took over they would have the change what they were doing if they wanted to stick around. Some changes were small, others large. Those who didn't want to change can (and should) leave. They are. You can get all emotional about that, or treat it like fact.

WILDCAT NATION · August 10, 2006, 09:40:16 AM

Freeman better be fuggin' good...and indestructable.

michigancat · August 10, 2006, 09:48:42 AM

Quote from: Fausto on August 10, 2006, 09:37:14 AM

"What Would Jack Welch Do"

Last year, arguably the best two players on the team were a former walk-on (Jordy) and grayshirt (Marcus Watts). Two walk-ons were listed on the 2-deep at DE, one of the weaker positions on the field over the past few years. Yes, Bill Snyder's recent recruiting was just so great that I am incredibly upset those recruits are leaving. What are we going to do?

In less than a month, Prince has created a situation at QB very similar to our DE situation the last two years. The only difference is Prince appeared to do it by showing favortism to certain players and basically being a dick, while Snyder just failed on the recruiting trail.

Quote

Folks, things changed when Snyder left. The players knew no matter who took over they would have the change what they were doing if they wanted to stick around. Some changes were small, others large. Those who didn't want to change can (and should) leave. They are. You can get all emotional about that, or treat it like fact.

If you were put in AE's position, would you have any desire to stick around?

Do you think Prince has handled his QB's very well up to this point?

sonofdaxjones · August 10, 2006, 09:55:50 AM

The only emotion I have right now is one of laughter with a tinge of sarcasm.

Until further notice, KSU football is just plain funny.

michigancat · August 10, 2006, 09:59:13 AM

Quote from: sonofdaxjones on August 10, 2006, 09:55:50 AM

The only emotion I have right now is one of laughter with a tinge of sarcasm.

Until further notice, KSU football is just plain funny.

Yeah, you have to laugh.

Fausto · August 10, 2006, 10:00:02 AM

It's almost like you've never seen a coaching change before.

Coaches favor players who better fit into their system. They often recruit players who they believe fit well into their system (duh?), and thus do favor them.

You can take your little petty anti-Ron Prince stuff elsewhere. Don't use it on me. Things are shaking out right now. Anyone that didn't see the shake coming just wasn't paying attention. I'm surprised how things have shaken out, but it's life. Bill Snyder got breaks. Even when he wasn't doing the best job we all could come up with excuses. Why? Because he was winning games (or had won games). Give Ron Prince the same chance. Judge him based on results rather than stuff like this, that in the big picture really doesn't matter.

Ohh, and don't compare Bill Snyder's recruiting of DEs to Ron Prince at QB. Prince got a top 100 elite QB in his first recruiting class, a player Snyder wouldn't have even recruited. Who's the last impact DE Snyder got? Andrew Shull in '99? C'mon. Fact: lack of recruiting at DE and QB by Snyder in the past few years cost K-State games. Who knows how recruiting will affect Ron Prince, but give him the opportunity to be judged based on those results rather than what you hear on some Internet message board from 14-year old kids (seemingly 90% of what posts here anymore) who don't have a clue.

sonofdaxjones · August 10, 2006, 10:03:35 AM

Who said I was anti-Ron Prince??

Right now KSU football is just funny ... if you can't laugh a little right now, then you're taking things way to seriously.

Insofar as change goes, I think we all know things would be different ... and I don't recall one person on this board saying that Snyder did anything close to a "bang up" job recruiting over his last 2 or 3 years.

But again, right now, KSU football is funny.

Fausto · August 10, 2006, 10:10:36 AM

Clue: I was replying to Rusty.

You're welcome.

MrWhite · August 10, 2006, 10:11:48 AM

Can someone tell me why AE should have been guaranteed PT at QB?

Please?

I just don't see it.

From what I've seen on the field, Meier is the better QB. And it's clear that Freeman has more potential than Meier and AE put together.

Given that, it's hard to blame coaches for putting him third, and giving the majority of the snaps to the guy coming off a year of rehab, and the true freshman.

AE didn't want to go from starter to depth chart, so he split.

sonofdaxjones · August 10, 2006, 10:17:29 AM

Quote from: Fausto on August 10, 2006, 10:10:36 AM

Clue: I was replying to Rusty.

You're welcome.

The Quote Button is your friend.

michigancat · August 10, 2006, 10:17:50 AM

Quote from: Fausto on August 10, 2006, 10:00:02 AM

Coaches favor players who better fit into their system. They often recruit players who they believe fit well into their system (duh?), and thus do favor them.

Still, you have to make some effort to use what you've got. What happened to "I don't want to get worse to get better" - tweaking the system to capitalize on the strengths of your roster. Sure Evridge and Webb might not "fit well", but they have both won games at QB in the Big XII. They deserved a shot at starting, and I don't think they were going to receive a fair shot. Seriously, how can you have a two-deep settled before you put on pads?

Quote

You can take your little petty anti-Ron Prince stuff elsewhere. Don't use it on me. Things are shaking out right now. Anyone that didn't see the shake coming just wasn't paying attention. I'm surprised how things have shaken out, but it's life. Bill Snyder got breaks. Even when he wasn't doing the best job we all could come up with excuses. Why? Because he was winning games (or had won games). Give Ron Prince the same chance. Judge him based on results rather than stuff like this, that in the big picture really doesn't matter.

Actually, in the big picture, horrible QB depth does matter. As you said, it cost Snyder games.

Quote from: Fausto on August 10, 2006, 10:00:02 AM

Ohh, and don't compare Bill Snyder's recruiting of DEs to Ron Prince at QB. Prince got a top 100 elite QB in his first recruiting class, a player Snyder wouldn't have even recruited. Who's the last impact DE Snyder got? Andrew Shull in '99? C'mon. Fact: lack of recruiting at DE and QB by Snyder in the past few years cost K-State games.

Of course the recruiting isn't comparable. That wasn't my point...Prince took a decent situation at QB and made it a bad one - without years of bad recruiting similar to what Snyder had.

wildwillie · August 10, 2006, 11:54:41 AM

At least Prince has a couple of QB's recruited for next year that fit his system...

MrWhite · August 10, 2006, 11:58:42 AM

Quote from: wildwillie on August 10, 2006, 11:54:41 AM

At least Prince has a couple of QB's recruited for next year that fit his system...

Fear Opie....

ds43fan · August 10, 2006, 11:59:51 AM

if we all drank more kool-aid we could be like the Go-Powertards and we'd all think those QB's would win the heisman and we'd win the NC

Houstoncat93 · August 10, 2006, 12:46:14 PM

Quote from: ds43fan on August 10, 2006, 11:59:51 AM

if we all drank more kool-aid we could be like the Go-Powertards and we'd all think those QB's would win the heisman and we'd win the NC

Its the anti-kool-aid filter on this board that makes it the best place on the internet for KSU fans.

Houstoncat93 · August 10, 2006, 12:53:51 PM

Quote from: Fausto on August 10, 2006, 10:00:02 AM

It's almost like you've never seen a coaching change before.

Because he was winning games (or had won games). Give Ron Prince the same chance. Judge him based on results rather than stuff like this, that in the big picture really doesn't matter.

Isn't this basically the same argument that a lot of us anti-Woolites were making but in reverse. In his case Wooly wasn't winning over a sustained period of time and we thought he should go. We have no idea if Prince is the second coming of Bill Synder or Terry Allen. Right now the fan base is playing gypsy and gazing into our little crystal ball to figure out the future. I'll give Prince the benefit of the doubt for now that this is the right thing for KSU in the long run. However losing both of our starting QB's from last year to transfer before a game is even played has me a little concerned.

MrWhite · August 10, 2006, 12:58:32 PM

As for the impact of AE on recruiting, it's also going to be noticed that when Ron Prince tells a recruit they can come in and compete for a starting job on day 1, he means it.

pissclams · August 10, 2006, 01:03:33 PM

As will his inability to show any type of loyality to the players he inherited.

MrWhite · August 10, 2006, 01:14:59 PM

Is he inheriting players next year?

ksuno1stunner · August 10, 2006, 01:49:31 PM

Quote from: MrWhite on August 10, 2006, 01:14:59 PM

Is he inheriting players next year?

ds43fan · August 10, 2006, 02:00:42 PM

Quote from: ksuno1stunner on August 10, 2006, 01:49:31 PM

Quote from: MrWhite on August 10, 2006, 01:14:59 PM
Is he inheriting players next year?

don't forget this stud:
[imghttp://z.about.com/d/animatedtv/1/0/4/T/fGuyPeterRush09_22_72.jpg][/img]

Andy · August 10, 2006, 02:53:42 PM

no matter what has happened, we are still ahead of having a walk-on as our #2.

you can seriously use anyone for a scout teamer

ksu_FAN · August 10, 2006, 03:28:02 PM

The largest impact from recruiting will come not directly from AE, but from Freeman. Prince will likely be able to explain the AE situation, but he's going to find it tough to get a decent QB in here the next couple years b/c of how things went down. Kids are going to see that Freeman is his guy and its going to take one or two years at least to be able to recruit a kid of similar caliber.

In the end, Prince has got to win and go to bowl games. That will be the key in selling kids back to K-State in a new era. He's taking lots of stabs now at what are hopefully diamonds in the rough, but he won't be able to afford DITR recruiting classes forever. Maybe not this one.

michigancat · August 10, 2006, 03:37:17 PM

Quote from: ksu_FAN on August 10, 2006, 03:28:02 PM

The largest impact from recruiting will come not directly from AE, but from Freeman. Prince will likely be able to explain the AE situation, but he's going to find it tough to get a decent QB in here the next couple years b/c of how things went down. Kids are going to see that Freeman is his guy and its going to take one or two years at least to be able to recruit a kid of similar caliber.

In the end, Prince has got to win and go to bowl games. That will be the key in selling kids back to K-State in a new era. He's taking lots of stabs now at what are hopefully diamonds in the rough, but he won't be able to afford DITR recruiting classes forever. Maybe not this one.

What happens when Prince recruits someone even better and gives Freeman the AE/KP/AW treatment?

wildwillie · August 10, 2006, 04:31:09 PM

On a serious note, is Prince going to go after a QB in this class? According to Scout, our current verbal commit list includes 5 RB's, 2 TE (One who admits he doesn't know his GPA or when he is going to take his ACT - Pinchback), 3 OL, 2 DE, 3 LB, 3 CB, and 1 K.

An impressive list, but with all the current QB departures, do you think we need a couple of QB's?

I guess I normally wouldn't be asking this question at the start of camp, but it looks like our commits are mostly in with little room for many more recruits...I may be wrong, but it seems like this class will be thin for QB, DT, WR....

Fausto · August 10, 2006, 09:44:38 PM

"What happened to "I don't want to get worse to get better" - tweaking the system to capitalize on the strengths of your roster."

Who is to say it's not still there? You can only play 1 QB here. Unless we all were wanting QB by committee like the spring game. Is perhaps Freeman not the best talent but the best fit? If you have the best of both world you don't need to worry about tweaking. Granted...if, if, if. That's all Ron Prince is right now. Except to those to whom he is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

That wasn't my point...Prince took a decent situation at QB and made it a bad one - without years of bad recruiting similar to what Snyder had.

That isn't all on Prince. Snyder's recruiting pretty much is on him. Kids made decisions. Allen Webb, it sounds, basically just quit. Snyder had YEARS to recruit behind Ell. Prince had months to go out and get an Elite 11 QB, perhaps the most heralded QB recruit ever! Now, there's a difference between recruiting rankings and results, but Prince clearly appears to see something there he can work with. This is a pretty good test immediately to see if he knows what he is doing. I know it's hard to see kids we've all cheered for leave with so much potential still there to be used. The positive about this may be there won't be any excuses if things don't work out and we won't allow ourselves to *give'em more time* because it took a while to *implement his offense*.

michigancat · August 10, 2006, 09:56:00 PM

Quote from: Fausto on August 10, 2006, 09:44:38 PM

"What happened to "I don't want to get worse to get better" - tweaking the system to capitalize on the strengths of your roster."

Who is to say it's not still there? You can only play 1 QB here. Unless we all were wanting QB by committee like the spring game. Is perhaps Freeman not the best talent but the best fit? If you have the best of both world you don't need to worry about tweaking. Granted...if, if, if. That's all Ron Prince is right now. Except to those to whom he is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

That wasn't my point...Prince took a decent situation at QB and made it a bad one - without years of bad recruiting similar to what Snyder had.

That isn't all on Prince. Snyder's recruiting pretty much is on him. Kids made decisions. Allen Webb, it sounds, basically just quit. Snyder had YEARS to recruit behind Ell. Prince had months to go out and get an Elite 11 QB, perhaps the most heralded QB recruit ever! Now, there's a difference between recruiting rankings and results, but Prince clearly appears to see something there he can work with. This is a pretty good test immediately to see if he knows what he is doing. I know it's hard to see kids we've all cheered for leave with so much potential still there to be used. The positive about this may be there won't be any excuses if things don't work out and we won't allow ourselves to *give'em more time* because it took a while to *implement his offense*.

I can totally relate to all your points, expecially the ones alluding to [jw]basketball[/jw].

However, even if the QB situation isn't all on Prince, he sure didn't do anything to make it appear that he made much of an effort to ensure KSU had 3 QB's on roster - that will hurt immediately, (no matter how good Freeman is), and it may hurt him on the recruiting trail.

I guess we'll see.