Hmmm...schollie not yanked?

[slucat]

http://catzone.cjonline.com/stories/080206/cat_webbksu.shtml

Crow anyone?
 

[michigancat]

Instead, coach Ron Prince simply refused to pay for Webb's summer-school expenses because the 6-foot-3 quarterback failed to meet previous academic obligations and adhere to athletic department policies.

How is that not yanking a scholarship?

[Jeffrey_Martin]

Thanks, Rusty. I've bit my tongue for so long on this, but it's ridiculous. Summer school is ALWAYS part of the deal in a scholarship. So, when Prince says he simply refused to pay for Webb's summer school, what does that tell you?

[Dan Rydell]

Instead, coach Ron Prince simply refused to pay for Webb's summer-school expenses because the 6-foot-3 quarterback failed to meet previous academic obligations and adhere to athletic department policies.

Webb, a social science major, didn't attend summer school at K-State and spent much of the past two months in his hometown of Denver.

Those don't add up.

Weiser said K-State officials consider that a "privilege," ostensibly extended to those who are excelling in the classroom.

Jeffrey, off the top of your head, are you aware of any student athletes receiving  summer aid who aren't exactly "excelling" in the classroom?  I find it hard to believe that Prince is refusing to provide summer aid to anyone who fails to maintain, oh, a 3.0 or above...

 

[chum1]

If nothing else, it seems that Prince was gently nudging Webb towards the door.  

What's the big deal, though?  He's entitled to do that.  And one case in which he should be doing it is if he thinks Webb's presence adversely affects the team (because of a bad attitude stemming from his beliefs about possible starting QBs, for example).  I don't know what Prince's reason was, or whether or not he was right to do it, but I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have a problem with it.  It is clear that this team has had its issues.  I'm glad that Prince is trying to resolve them--even if he fails.

[Jeffrey_Martin]

It would be irreponsible of me to just throw names out there, but yes, I know of a few cases. Or, I've heard of a few cases, I should say.

[Jeffrey_Martin]

Chum,

If I had an issue with anything - and I don't, because I'm not a fan or a critic, really - it would be in how he's "nudging" people toward the door. I agree with you in that he has every right. I guess I wonder about the consistency of his methods. There are some younger players who are getting away with things that Webb is being "nudged" out for.

Presumably, of course. 

[slucat]

Universities aren't required to provide student-athletes with financial assistance for summer school, however.

Weiser said K-State officials consider that a "privilege," ostensibly extended to those who are excelling in the classroom

So Weiser is going to flat out lie?  It seems to me that Webb was always looking for greener pastures, he transfered in HS so he could get more touches and possible exposure.  Gave a soft verbal (or so I heard) to a few schools, then changed his mind to go to IU, sees he won't get time at QB and transfers again. So between his well documented history, off the field issues, and hearing both sides of the story, I conclude that Webb wanted to assured a starting spot or guarenteed some amount of playing time (2nd string perhaps?) Prince wouldn't promise anything, so Webb let some of spring ball slip as well as his grades, due to lack of comitment to the team, Prince says K-State won't pay for summer school, which according to Weiser, he doesn't have to. He is welcomed back to KSU in the fall, if his academics are back in place, Webb saw the writing on the wall  (no guarentee of PT, and in the dog house because of lack of comitment and academic problems) and hit the road for "greener pastures", which there were rumors he was thinking about leaving prior to Snyder's retirement and early in the Spring semester...

I think Prince did the right thing, Webb wasn't giving 100% comitment and didn't like what he heard.  If K-State doesn't need to pay for summer school, then KSU did nothing wrong.

[chum1]

Chum,

If I had an issue with anything - and I don't, because I'm not a fan or a critic, really - it would be in how he's "nudging" people toward the door. I agree with you in that he has every right. I guess I wonder about the consistency of his methods. There are some younger players who are getting away with things that Webb is being "nudged" out for.

I see.  I don't have the slightest clue about why Prince chose to get rid of anyone.  I'd love to hear it, but I realize that you can only say so much.  Thanks again for all of your input, though.  It's very cool of you.

[ScubaSteve]

Thanks, Rusty. I've bit my tongue for so long on this, but it's ridiculous. Summer school is ALWAYS part of the deal in a scholarship. So, when Prince says he simply refused to pay for Webb's summer school, what does that tell you?

Seems as though Weiser disagrees that it is ALWAYS part of the deal.

From the Capitol Journal:

Athletic director Tim Weiser said Tuesday that K-State didn't pull Webb's scholarship, as recent reports indicated.

Instead, coach Ron Prince simply refused to pay for Webb's summer-school expenses because the 6-foot-3 quarterback failed to meet previous academic obligations and adhere to athletic department policies.

In announcing his decision last week to transfer to Texas College, an NAIA school in Tyler, Texas, Webb told the Wichita Eagle that Prince had pulled his scholarship.

"I understand the message being given to me," he said.

Turns out, he didn't understand.

"In my conversations with Ron, it was clear that Ron would have gladly allowed Allen to return and be part of the K-State football program, including the receipt of financial aid," Weiser said. "Had Allen chose to continue to be at Kansas State, we would have continued to provide him with financial aid."
Universities aren't required to provide student-athletes with financial assistance for summer school, however.

Weiser said K-State officials consider that a "privilege," ostensibly extended to those who are excelling in the classroom.


Now I'm not saying Webb wasn't nudged out the door.  Looks to me like he was.  I'm just not going to assume, nor am I going to think he was pushed out because he was expendable.  We know that two walkons went on scholarship this fall... Don Raymer and Ian Campbell...it's in the media guide.  We weren't short on scholarships.  There is a very good case to be made that Webb will be needed this fall.  There are reasons why he's gone and I don't need know why.  I just need to know that Prince didn't want him around.  So now he isn't.

As far as applying the rules consistantly,  I'm guessing that the rest of the team knows why Webb is gone and I'm guessing that they know that if they perform or act in the same manner, they will be gone too.  To imply that Webb is being treated unfairly without facts from Prince's point of view, which will never be, nor should be forthcoming, is simply irresponsible in my opinion.

[michigancat]

I'd like to know how many players on scholarship this fall received aid for summer classes.

Do incoming freshmen pay for summer school if they attend?

[Dan Rydell]

To imply that Webb is being treated unfairly without facts from Prince's point of view, which will never be, nor should be forthcoming, is simply irresponsible in my opinion.

Why is that any more irresponsible than to imply that Prince treated Webb fairly?  There are two sides of the story and facts to support both.

[pissclams]

I'd like to know how many players on scholarship this fall received aid for summer classes.

Do incoming freshmen pay for summer school if they attend?

Incoming freshman have to pay, their scholarships don't start until the Fall semester.

[ScubaSteve]

To imply that Webb is being treated unfairly without facts from Prince's point of view, which will never be, nor should be forthcoming, is simply irresponsible in my opinion.

Why is that any more irresponsible than to imply that Prince treated Webb fairly?  There are two sides of the story and facts to support both.

I don't think I've stated anywhere that I think it would be.   We don't know, do we? 

[michigancat]

Did Cartier Martin pay for summer school this year?

[Dan Rydell]

Incoming freshman have to pay, their scholarships don't start until the Fall semester.

Interesting that Colorado State will pay for incoming freshman to go to summer school and we won't.

[slucat]

Did Cartier Martin pay for summer school this year?

Apples and Oranges.
Each situation will be different, player with great grades vs. ones who need the summer school to catch up, etc...I think it was past history and off the field components that led to this, not to mention not partcipating in all spring workouts.

[michigancat]

Did Cartier Martin pay for summer school this year?

Apples and Oranges.
Each situation will be different, player with great grades vs. ones who need the summer school to catch up, etc...I think it was past history and off the field components that led to this, not to mention not partcipating in all spring workouts.

In other words, there are different rules for different players.

[catfan28]

Bslimz and Rusty......

Why are you both such negative Nancy's when it comes to our football program ??

[Trim]

Universities aren't required to provide student-athletes with financial assistance for summer school, however.

Weiser said K-State officials consider that a "privilege," ostensibly extended to those who are excelling in the classroom

So Weiser is going to flat out lie?

I'm sure that the statements made by Weiser and Prince were carefully worded to not be flat-out lies.  I'm sure it is within their rights to pull a scholarship and/or "not pay for summer classes" as they see fit.  The point is that it is generally accepted that when you're awarded a football scholarship, your classes and academic expenses will be paid for regardless of which semester you're taking them in, and that you will have that scholarship throughout your playing/acadmeic career.  

Prince may have an excellent reason for getting rid of Webb, i.e. Webb didn't like not starting at qb and was a cancer to the team.  Blaming it on academics and technical scholarship provisions is a cop-out and a PR move.  It's naive to think that Webb is the only player with "academic issues."

Selfishly, I'm disappointed that as good a talker as Prince is, he couldn't come up with some way to make Webb happy or think he has a chance at qb, just so we could keep him around as a potential backup or change-of-pace, or utilize him at another position.  Webb could've been an asset.

[slucat]

Did Cartier Martin pay for summer school this year?

Apples and Oranges.
Each situation will be different, player with great grades vs. ones who need the summer school to catch up, etc...I think it was past history and off the field components that led to this, not to mention not partcipating in all spring workouts.

In other words, there are different rules for different players.

Hardly, multiple problems...ever heard the phrase "straw that broke the camel's back"? Or the "three strikes, you're out"? 

[michigancat]

Bslimz and Rusty......

Why are you both such negative Nancy's when it comes to our football program ??

I don't like what I see.

Do you honestly think losing Webb is the best thing for this team?

[michigancat]

Did Cartier Martin pay for summer school this year?

Apples and Oranges.
Each situation will be different, player with great grades vs. ones who need the summer school to catch up, etc...I think it was past history and off the field components that led to this, not to mention not partcipating in all spring workouts.

In other words, there are different rules for different players.

Hardly, multiple problems...ever heard the phrase "straw that broke the camel's back"? Or the "three strikes, you're out"?

In other words, the scholarship was yanked because he violated more team rules than anyone.

[fatty fat fat]

If Prince wins, none of us will care about crap like this.

[michigancat]

If Prince wins, none of us will care about crap like this.

Probably true.

I didn't like the way the Marcus Raines thing was handled, though.

[Dan Rydell]

Bslimz and Rusty......

Why are you both such negative Nancy's when it comes to our football program ??

Why are you and so many others having pie-in-the-sky fantasies about an 8-4 season with a new head coach with no previous HC experience who is inheriting a team that couldn't break .500 under one of the greatest football minds of all time?  Being a realist doesn't make one a "Negative Nancy."  No need to start namecalling those of us who aren't bathing in the showers of purple koolaid that are washing around GPC.com and ksf.com.

I'm not suggesting that Prince shouldn't have been hired.  I'm just saying that I'll be surprised, and pleased, with anything better than 4-8 this year.  In fact, I'd be willing to wager that if we go 5-7, you'll come back here in 6 months to find that I'm defending Prince against folks who predicted that we'd go 8-4 this year and are therefore disappointed in Prince's performance.  Now, if we're still 5-7 two-and-a-half years from now, I'll join them in saying we hired the wrong guy.

I don't like what I see.

Do you honestly think losing Webb is the best thing for this team?

What he said.

[swish1]

Incoming freshman have to pay, their scholarships don't start until the Fall semester.

Interesting that Colorado State will pay for incoming freshman to go to summer school and we won't.

does that mean we didnt pay for freeman to come to kstate in the spring semester?

[Andy]

Incoming freshman have to pay, their scholarships don't start until the Fall semester.

Interesting that Colorado State will pay for incoming freshman to go to summer school and we won't.

does that mean we didnt pay for freeman to come to kstate in the spring semester?

i would assume the moment he is eligible his scholarship begins

does a player get free tuition for as long as it takes them to graduate, even though their eligibility expires?  is that even an option?

[ScubaSteve]

Incoming freshman have to pay, their scholarships don't start until the Fall semester.

Interesting that Colorado State will pay for incoming freshman to go to summer school and we won't.

does that mean we didnt pay for freeman to come to kstate in the spring semester?

No Freeman was treated like a Juco player that graduated in December.  He went on scholarship in January.

[GoldbrickGangBoss]

If Prince wins, none of us will care about crap like this.

Probably true.

I didn't like the way the Marcus Raines thing was handled, though.

Thats cuz you weren't winning at the time.