I am officially in show me mode on Prince ....

[KSt8er]

What evidence is there that he's so smart?  Maybe I'm missing it..right now, he sounds like he's completely full of $hit.

I agree with this statement.  Worse, the mediots like him. 

That said, I will not judge him as a head coach until I see his team on the field.  Its really that simple.  I'm not certain what fuels the considerable numbers that have already tagged him as the second coming of Jim Woolridge, other than they both speak english.  Or the recruiting methodology haters, when not a single one of them is at KSU or played a single snap yet. 

He's our coach, he has yet to lose a game, can't we just support him instead of trying to appear like Karnac the great.   

[sonofdaxjones]

I know, I know ... wait and see; it's just vibe I am getting.   

Like I said, maybe I just need to get used to an approach that hasn't been at KSU in years, maybe never.

[KSt8er]

I understand completely about the vibe, got a big one myself and it has me worried I'll admit, BUT, there isn't a damn thing I can do to make it go away, that's on him come football games, so I'll wait and hope he's got the nads to go with the verbs.

[JavaCat]

Honestly dax, how did your opinion take such a 180?

[ScubaSteve]

Honestly dax, how did your opinion take such a 180?

Ahhh... Dax got caught in a catch22.  He forgot where he posted this comment....you know, where the enemy can read it.  You see, he can't take the other side on the oppositions board if they can use it against him.  It just ruins his fun.  He should have saved this one for the Wabash.

[Bookcat]

while I'm skeptical of early success this first season...

I'll let Ron prove to me he's as futile as Jim Wooldridge.

[purplecobra]

I hear alot of comments like " I'm just waiting to see what he does on the field"  does that mean that winning games means that treating players like crap is toelrated?  I hope it doesn't but that is the way it sounds.

[ScubaSteve]

I hear alot of comments like " I'm just waiting to see what he does on the field"  does that mean that winning games means that treating players like @#%$ is toelrated?  I hope it doesn't but that is the way it sounds.

I'm confused.  Can you provide me a link to something where a player is complaining about how he was treated?  I must have missed that.

[FBWillie]

I hear alot of comments like " I'm just waiting to see what he does on the field"  does that mean that winning games means that treating players like @#%$ is toelrated?  I hope it doesn't but that is the way it sounds.

yes.. he was treated badly... But if it was necessary to succeed with this program... Isn't that what every KSU fan wants?  Read my rant about Businesses in the thread labeled: "Jeffrey Martin, your thoughts on Big XII Media Days, please." to help further illustrate my point.

[ScubaSteve]

I hear alot of comments like " I'm just waiting to see what he does on the field"  does that mean that winning games means that treating players like @#%$ is toelrated?  I hope it doesn't but that is the way it sounds.

yes.. he was treated badly... But if it was necessary to succeed with this program... Isn't that what every KSU fan wants?  Read my rant about Businesses in the thread labeled: "Jeffrey Martin, your thoughts on Big XII Media Days, please." to help further illustrate my point.

How do you know he was treated badly?  Maybe he was treated fairly.  We just don't know, do we?

[purplecobra]

"yes.. he was treated badly... But if it was necessary to succeed with this program... Isn't that what every KSU fan wants?"

answer this question.  How is cutting the qb with the most starting wins last year going to help KSU out this season?  the answer is, it will not.  It  wouldn't have hurt recruiting, it wouldn't have hurt anything.  If he was a sophmore, just taking up space that would be one thing, you stiull can't cut him though, but he was a senior, in one semester he was done.  even if he never would have taken a snap there would have been absolutely no reason he had to go for the betterment of the team

[FBWillie]

I don't...  I just know that it sucks to have your scholarship removed without any other reason than you aren't going to fit into our program.  Is that wrong? No.  Should we hate Prince for this?  Definately not.  Does it suck? Yes.   Look this doesn't need to be debated with me.. read my other post and hopefully you will fully understand my point of view.

[FBWillie]

"yes.. he was treated badly... But if it was necessary to succeed with this program... Isn't that what every KSU fan wants?"

answer this question.  How is cutting the qb with the most starting wins last year going to help KSU out this season?  the answer is, it will not.  It  wouldn't have hurt recruiting, it wouldn't have hurt anything.  If he was a sophmore, just taking up space that would be one thing, you stiull can't cut him though, but he was a senior, in one semester he was done.  even if he never would have taken a snap there would have been absolutely no reason he had to go for the betterment of the team

Unless it was an attitude problem... then it would have hurt.

[purplecobra]

"I just know that it sucks to have your scholarship removed without any other reason than you aren't going to fit into our program.  Is that wrong? No"

yes, it is wrong.  What's next, yank a schol from a kid who tore his acl in practice?   prince is not acting like the head of a big time football program should be acting.  I can only imagine Snyder is absolutely shaking his head in disbelief.  Every coach knows they are there to win, but  you still don't treat your kids like that.  it isn't as if Prince has 2-3  big time qb's wanting his schol and even then, they cvould ahve it.  by signing day next year Webb will have been long gone

[FBWillie]

"I just know that it sucks to have your scholarship removed without any other reason than you aren't going to fit into our program.  Is that wrong? No"

yes, it is wrong.  What's next, yank a schol from a kid who tore his acl in practice?   prince is not acting like the head of a big time football program should be acting.  I can only imagine Snyder is absolutely shaking his head in disbelief.  Every coach knows they are there to win, but  you still don't treat your kids like that.  it isn't as if Prince has 2-3  big time qb's wanting his schol and even then, they cvould ahve it.  by signing day next year Webb will have been long gone

D@mnit Cobra.. I was just about to leave from work until you sucked me back in with your complete disregard of every post I've made.  It's not wrong if it is hurting the team.  Webb "MAY" have had an attitude problem that was harmful to the team.  As a coach that is in a position that deserves respect, it is his duty to make players respect him.  Call it making an example if you want.  "IF", and notice I said IF as it remains to be seen, Webb was a negative force on that team; you d@mn right it was okay to boot him. Don't even bring up injuries or anything else because it has nothing to do with this situation.  That scenario is nothing but speculation; I'm sure you understand my opinion of people that have strong convictions based on speculation.

Now pay attention because I've actually been arguing for both sides in this forum.  WE WILL NEVER FIND OUT WHY WEBB LOST HIS SCHOLARSHIP.  Therefore, any reason given by anyone here is SPECULATION.  Rather than determining that R. Prince did something wrong, I'm going to continue to support him because he is the Coach of this school.  He is much more in touch with what does and doesn't need to be done to excel this program as he is living and breathing in it as we all peek through the windows.  Because of this FACT; I TRUST HIS JUDGEMENT.  Does it suck for Webb?  Yes.  But I'm not going to hate Prince for it.

[purplecobra]

"It's not wrong if it is hurting the team.  Webb "MAY" have had an attitude problem that was harmful to the team."

the kid had no attitude problems, he was a warrior.  next accusation please

[ScubaSteve]

"I just know that it sucks to have your scholarship removed without any other reason than you aren't going to fit into our program.  Is that wrong? No"

yes, it is wrong.  What's next, yank a schol from a kid who tore his acl in practice?   prince is not acting like the head of a big time football program should be acting.  I can only imagine Snyder is absolutely shaking his head in disbelief.  Every coach knows they are there to win, but  you still don't treat your kids like that.  it isn't as if Prince has 2-3  big time qb's wanting his schol and even then, they cvould ahve it.  by signing day next year Webb will have been long gone

Cobra, Cobra, Cobra....  of course it would be wrong if a coach pulled a scholarship for tearing an acl.  You have no idea why Webb's got pulled.  Has Webb mentioned the reasons?  Even Jeffrey Martin stated (and he has actually spoken to Webb) that Webb made some mistakes.  If you don't hold up your end of the bargain, that means going to class, following the rules, showing up to practice, working hard in the weight room, you can lose your scholarship. That doesn't mean you will?  No, but you can, rightfully so.  If you do hold up your end of the bargain, you should keep your scholarship, even if you are not needed.   Look at the roster and you will find all kinds of players that will probably never see the field.  You don't see their scholarships getting yanked do you?

[purplecobra]

well, he only had 3 classes left to graduate so he was going to class and out of the games we did manage to win last year he was responsible for 80% of them so he was going to practice.  and I have seen nothing that says any of that changed this year

[mjrod]

You all realize that cobra is a Husker in purple clothing right?

[swish1]

well, he only had 3 classes left to graduate so he was going to class and out of the games we did manage to win last year he was responsible for 80% of them so he was going to practice.  and I have seen nothing that says any of that changed this year

didnt webb disappear for a couple of practices in spring practice?

[opcat]

right now I see Black Jim Wooldridge.

Says all the right things, kisses the babies ...

Less and less impressed with his recruits.

Beginning to wonder if he wants to have a Boys Choir or a Football team.

What recruits are you unimpressed with ? 

[FBWillie]

"It's not wrong if it is hurting the team.  Webb "MAY" have had an attitude problem that was harmful to the team."

the kid had no attitude problems, he was a warrior.  next accusation please

wasn't any more of an accusation than you bagging on Coach Prince for Dumping Webb... Get it straight D1ck head... I'm actually playing devils advocate here.. I'm not happy about this, but to take one side is completely stupid.  We have no idea what happened.  Just like you have no idea that Webb didn't have an attitude problem.

[markp68]

Tell me...if KSU ends up not making a bowl this year, how will you feel about Prince?  Will you chalk it up to being a transition year?  If it were me, I probably would give him three years to turn it around.

If I were a KSU fan, I would be concerned about a couple of things for 2006  (not flaming here):

1) The OL.  With a new pass-happy scheme in place, how is an OL that didn't perform that great last year adjust?  I know you guys have talent there, but can they gel together in a new system in time for Louisville?  Your penciled-in starting center just left.

2) QB.  Dylan is good and he should start, IMHO, but he hasn't played a whole season healthy in a while.  Webb is gone, Lopina is gone.  If my #1 concern above doesn't resolve itself, and injuries happen, you guys may see Josh Freeman playing late in the season.  We ku fans are ridiculed for thinking Meier can start this year, yet Freeman is going to come right in and light it up?  I don't think so.

3) Defections.  They are inevitable with any coaching change, but you do lose experienced players and it can eat into your depth.

4) Inexperienced Staff.  Plenty has been typed about this, but if things get rough, do these guys know how to make the adjustments and turn it around?

[ds43fan]

i've ran out of kool-aid i need to see some wins b4 i get any more

[pissclams]

Tell me...if KSU ends up not making a bowl this year, how will you feel about Prince?  Will you chalk it up to being a transition year?  If it were me, I probably would give him three years to turn it around.

If I were a KSU fan, I would be concerned about a couple of things for 2006  (not flaming here):

1) The OL. 
2) QB. 
3) Defections. 

4) Inexperienced Staff.  Plenty has been typed about this, but if things get rough, do these guys know how to make the adjustments and turn it around?

With the exception of #4, name a college team that shouldn't be cognizant of those factors. 

[Houstoncat93]

I'm getting the same feeling as Dax on this.  My gut says that Prince is going to be one hell of a PR guy with very mediocre results on the field.....hence the comparisions to Wooly.  At this point I have ZERO hard evidence to support my opinion.

Recruiting This hasn't wowed me (ala Huggins) but KSU FB recruiting never has.  We won't really know if this class blows or if Prince is a recruiting God for at least 2 - 3 years.  Fatty et al put to much stock in Rivals star rating system and Feb is still a long ways away.

Webb This seems like a non-issue to me.  Anytime there are changes at the top of a large organization there will be changes that filter down from there.  It happens in business all the time.  I haven't heard anything yet that would leave me to believe that Webb simple didn't fit into Prince's plan.

[FBWillie]

Tell me...if KSU ends up not making a bowl this year, how will you feel about Prince?  Will you chalk it up to being a transition year?  If it were me, I probably would give him three years to turn it around.

If I were a KSU fan, I would be concerned about a couple of things for 2006  (not flaming here):

1) The OL.  With a new pass-happy scheme in place, how is an OL that didn't perform that great last year adjust?  I know you guys have talent there, but can they gel together in a new system in time for Louisville?  Your penciled-in starting center just left.

2) QB.  Dylan is good and he should start, IMHO, but he hasn't played a whole season healthy in a while.  Webb is gone, Lopina is gone.  If my #1 concern above doesn't resolve itself, and injuries happen, you guys may see Josh Freeman playing late in the season.  We ku fans are ridiculed for thinking Meier can start this year, yet Freeman is going to come right in and light it up?  I don't think so.

3) Defections.  They are inevitable with any coaching change, but you do lose experienced players and it can eat into your depth.

4) Inexperienced Staff.  Plenty has been typed about this, but if things get rough, do these guys know how to make the adjustments and turn it around?

Reply in order:
I'll be fine with Coach Prince if we don't make it to a Bowl.  I'll be upset... But I won't be calling for his head for at least 4 full years of him not doing anything.  

1: OL... Well duhh.  
2: QB:  Still not an issue in my mind.  So what we lost #4 and #5 on our depth chart.  No one has said anything about Freeman coming in and lighting it up.  ku fans are ridiculed because you aren't taking into account that the improvement of your offense rest on 1 guy; that isn't backed up by anyone; has never played big 12 ball and will likely make several mistakes.  Sure his several mistakes will be better than what you had, but what happens if he gets hurt? I'll be surprised if he can last an entire season.  He may stay in the game but there is no way he will be at 100% through it all.  Then what?  WE on the other have two guys that have proven they can move the ball and make quick decisions that would have to fail before we resorted to a true freshman.  
3: Defections:  No sh1t.  Most likely this is the end of it as it won't be easy for anyone to transfer this close to spring.  Maybe 1 more guy... who knows.
4: Inexperienced Staff:  No one knows.  I could give 1 example of unproven staff succeeding for every 2 examples you can give as a failure.  Bottom line, we have a talented group of guys on this team.  My personal opinion of the past two years were a result of lack of respect, lack of work ethic, and lack of motivation.  This could be changed in one year with a personnel change.  Problem may already be solved.  Which may be what we are seeing with the recent departures.

[FBWillie]

Tell me...if KSU ends up not making a bowl this year, how will you feel about Prince?  Will you chalk it up to being a transition year?  If it were me, I probably would give him three years to turn it around.

BTW... What's the P stand for? 68?

[markp68]

Tell me...if KSU ends up not making a bowl this year, how will you feel about Prince?  Will you chalk it up to being a transition year?  If it were me, I probably would give him three years to turn it around.

BTW... What's the P stand for? 68?

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