Great HBBIQ article from Pomeroy

[michigancat]

I have no idea how he came up with this data, but it's logical, and I'm sure surprising to old farts who lament the "lost art of the mid-range jumper".  Also a Beasley mention.




http://www.basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=191

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Fascinating. 

[kougar24]

At first I was surprised that FG percentage goes up as you move from the basket to the arc, but then as I thought about it; it's not that surprising considering one major factor: shots around the basket are almost always contested, and contact is usually involved, whereas shots on the perimeter are generally open to a degree, and contact is rarely involved.

I haven't read the article yet, so if he says that in there, my apologies.

[ksu_FAN]

Brilliant piece of work by Pomeroy there.  Really shows the evolution of the game with the 3 point arc in play.  I will be anxious to see if/when he does a follow-up in the next few years after the distance is moved back.

And the point on Beasley is interesting.  He is money from the corner at 15 feet.  And those shots are almost always contested. 

And once again, that data really makes Wooly's "fool's gold" manta silly at best.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

It summarizes what I think we all knew.  The game is layups, dunks, and 3's.  Stop and pop is dead. 

It also gives insight into why KSU lost at least one game.  It seemed to me like in the Mizzou game at Columbia, they hit a higher than normal percentage (by global standards) of 10-17 foot jumpers.  Tech gets a lot of these shots out of their offense as well.  3's and FT's won that game, however. 

[pissclams]

to summarize:  basketball players are lazy and don't want to work for their shots

and shuttlesworth, the graph isn't saying stop and pop is dead, i'm not sure where you got that from.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

and shuttlesworth, the graph isn't saying stop and pop is dead, i'm not sure where you got that from.

Sorry, I assumed readers of my post would have played the game.  Mid-range jumpers and stop and pop go hand in hand.  There is much less mid range penetration with the intent of shooting a jump shot.  Driving to the bucket and dishing to the arc has taken over. 

[michigancat]

you just do stop and pop behind the arc now.

[pissclams]

and shuttlesworth, the graph isn't saying stop and pop is dead, i'm not sure where you got that from.

Sorry, I assumed readers of my post would have played the game.  Mid-range jumpers and stop and pop go hand in hand.  There is much less mid range penetration with the intent of shooting a jump shot.  Driving to the bucket and dishing to the arc has taken over. 

wow, my pinky has played more basketball than you, dolt. 

you just do stop and pop behind the arc now.

thx

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

you just do stop and pop behind the arc now.

To me, stop and pop implies opting to stop a dribble drive somewhere short of taking it to the rack with the intention of shooting a jump shot in an open space of floor.  You do see this from behind the arc, but it is mostly only when a PG is not picked up or from the trailer in a secondary break.  

[pissclams]

you just do stop and pop behind the arc now.

To me, stop and pop implies opting to stop a dribble drive somewhere short of taking it to the rack with the intention of shooting a jump shot in an open space of floor.  You do see this from behind the arc, but it is mostly only when a PG is not picked up or from the trailer in a secondary break. 

maybe if you played more basketball you'd understand the definition and evolution of stop and pop, just maybe imo

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

you just do stop and pop behind the arc now.

To me, stop and pop implies opting to stop a dribble drive somewhere short of taking it to the rack with the intention of shooting a jump shot in an open space of floor.  You do see this from behind the arc, but it is mostly only when a PG is not picked up or from the trailer in a secondary break. 

maybe if you played more basketball you'd understand the definition and evolution of stop and pop, just maybe imo

I can't decide if you need to work more on your reading comprehension or your humor.  Try both. 

[pissclams]

you just do stop and pop behind the arc now.

To me, stop and pop implies opting to stop a dribble drive somewhere short of taking it to the rack with the intention of shooting a jump shot in an open space of floor.  You do see this from behind the arc, but it is mostly only when a PG is not picked up or from the trailer in a secondary break. 

maybe if you played more basketball you'd understand the definition and evolution of stop and pop, just maybe imo

I can't decide if you need to work more on your reading comprehension or your humor.  Try both. 

go play basketball, jerkstore

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

you just do stop and pop behind the arc now.

To me, stop and pop implies opting to stop a dribble drive somewhere short of taking it to the rack with the intention of shooting a jump shot in an open space of floor.  You do see this from behind the arc, but it is mostly only when a PG is not picked up or from the trailer in a secondary break. 

maybe if you played more basketball you'd understand the definition and evolution of stop and pop, just maybe imo

I can't decide if you need to work more on your reading comprehension or your humor.  Try both. 

go play basketball, jerkstore

OK.  I'll bite.  What is the highest level of competitive basketball you've played?

[pissclams]

never played a day in my life 

[ksu_FAN]

FWIW, Pullen has been known to "stop and pop" on a fairly regular basis.  If anything, it has become part of the game of smaller, quick guards.  Often they'll be guarded tight outside the arc, take a guy off the dribble, but be wise enough not to take it into the bodies in the lane.  Porter from Oregon essentually won the game in Bramlage hitting those shots IMO.  Augustine hit several as well on monday night. 

[kougar24]

FWIW, Pullen has been known to "stop and pop" on a fairly regular basis.  If anything, it has become part of the game of smaller, quick guards.  Often they'll be guarded tight outside the arc, take a guy off the dribble, but be wise enough not to take it into the bodies in the lane.  Porter from Oregon essentually won the game in Bramlage hitting those shots IMO.  Augustine hit several as well on monday night. 

Heinrich was a master at it.

[Kat Kid]

FWIW, Pullen has been known to "stop and pop" on a fairly regular basis.  If anything, it has become part of the game of smaller, quick guards.  Often they'll be guarded tight outside the arc, take a guy off the dribble, but be wise enough not to take it into the bodies in the lane.  Porter from Oregon essentually won the game in Bramlage hitting those shots IMO.  Augustine hit several as well on monday night. 

Kansas guards do this when they are successful.

[michigancat]

FWIW, Pullen has been known to "stop and pop" on a fairly regular basis.  If anything, it has become part of the game of smaller, quick guards.  Often they'll be guarded tight outside the arc, take a guy off the dribble, but be wise enough not to take it into the bodies in the lane.  Porter from Oregon essentually won the game in Bramlage hitting those shots IMO.  Augustine hit several as well on monday night. 

Like Pomeroy said, this will still be important against good defenses.  (It's interesting that both of our home losses involved the opposition relying fairly heavily on mid range jumpers).

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

FWIW, Pullen has been known to "stop and pop" on a fairly regular basis.  If anything, it has become part of the game of smaller, quick guards.  Often they'll be guarded tight outside the arc, take a guy off the dribble, but be wise enough not to take it into the bodies in the lane.  Porter from Oregon essentually won the game in Bramlage hitting those shots IMO.  Augustine hit several as well on monday night. 

Like Pomeroy said, this will still be important against good defenses.  (It's interesting that both of our home losses involved the opposition relying fairly heavily on mid range jumpers).

Rusty, would you say that ku hits a lot of mid-range j's?  Arthur and Jackson love that little shot from the elbow.  Rush will dribble (right-handed) to an open spot inside the arc as well.

[michigancat]

FWIW, Pullen has been known to "stop and pop" on a fairly regular basis.  If anything, it has become part of the game of smaller, quick guards.  Often they'll be guarded tight outside the arc, take a guy off the dribble, but be wise enough not to take it into the bodies in the lane.  Porter from Oregon essentually won the game in Bramlage hitting those shots IMO.  Augustine hit several as well on monday night. 

Like Pomeroy said, this will still be important against good defenses.  (It's interesting that both of our home losses involved the opposition relying fairly heavily on mid range jumpers).

Rusty, would you say that ku hits a lot of mid-range j's?  Arthur and Jackson love that little shot from the elbow.  Rush will dribble (right-handed) to an open spot inside the arc as well.

I don't think they shoot a significantly high number.  I honestly haven't watched them closely much this year, though.

[sys]

what an incredible article and graph.

pomeroy should charge d1 schools as a statistical consultant.  any coach that could look at that information and not realize the importance of the 3 pt shot....

[cireksu]

FWIW, Pullen has been known to "stop and pop" on a fairly regular basis.  If anything, it has become part of the game of smaller, quick guards.  Often they'll be guarded tight outside the arc, take a guy off the dribble, but be wise enough not to take it into the bodies in the lane.  Porter from Oregon essentually won the game in Bramlage hitting those shots IMO.  Augustine hit several as well on monday night. 

Like Pomeroy said, this will still be important against good defenses.  (It's interesting that both of our home losses involved the opposition relying fairly heavily on mid range jumpers).

Rusty, would you say that ku hits a lot of mid-range j's?  Arthur and Jackson love that little shot from the elbow.  Rush will dribble (right-handed) to an open spot inside the arc as well.

I don't think they shoot a significantly high number.  I honestly haven't watched them closely much this year, though.

Rush doesn't hit jack crap if he has to move.

[fatty fat fat]

so...does this make frank a retard for sticking to man?

[kougar24]

so...does this make frank a retard for sticking to man?

Not quite. But he needs to be more willing to throw a 3-2 attacking zone, more often. And earlier in the course of a game.

[michigancat]

Frank is a brilliant effing coach and I will kneecap the next f*cker that suggests otherwise.

[catzacker]

so...does this make frank a retard for sticking to man?

Not quite. But he needs to be more willing to throw a 3-2 attacking zone, more often. And earlier in the course of a game.

QFT. 

[michigancat]

I don't think we got one stop in the 3-2 zone against UT.  (not saying you guys are wrong, btw)

[ksu_FAN]

Actually, we got several "stops", but we couldn't rebound out of it and gave UT second chances.  And most often we combined token 1-3-1 halfcourt and fell back into the 3-2.  UT just beat us.

[michigancat]

Actually, we got several "stops", but we couldn't rebound out of it and gave UT second chances.  And most often we combined token 1-3-1 halfcourt and fell back into the 3-2.  UT just beat us.

Um, those aren't stops.