"What do you specifically see that makes you think Frank Martin can't coach?"

[michigancat]

I shouldn't expect Grapes to recognize good coaching when they see it.   It's one thing to call set situational plays.  It's quite another to know how to motivate a team, get it to play together and rely on each other.  Martin hasn't shown me anything yet - which doesn't mean he can't, but I haven't seen it.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=172#s=172&f=2481&t=1929692

[fatty fat fat]

GUARDS

[cireksu]

We're clearly not better from the beginning of the season, Michael beasley just ball hogs it and shoots until it goes in.

[steve dave]

Players don't get along.  NOBODY on the team likes Mike.  Criminals run the asylum.  Frank has lost control.  Low level AAU coach with only AAU experience. 

[Saulbadguy]

Point A: A good coach would be undefeated at this point since we have so much talent on this team.  We would most likely end up in the Final 4 with only a few losses (ku).

Point B: Beasley is only slightly better than Derrick Coleman, and Walker is just another Kenny Gregory.

 

[kougar24]

Did you see the players goofing off after practice on the local news?! NO CONTROL.

[ScubaSteve]

This is just wishful thinking by the ku fans.  Frank Martin can coach.

I used to think that Mangino couldn't coach too.  I don't think that any more.

[ksu_FAN]

A) Most have probably watched us play very little.
B) Many wouldn't know "well coached" outside their only little sphere of Williams/Self basketball anyway.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I used to think that Mangino couldn't coach too.  

This accurately sums up the point of view currently being held by ku fans.  To opponents, Martin is easy to hate and to make fun of.  They will only respect him when he beats them 3 out of the next 4. 

[WilliamTheWildcat]

Point A: A good coach would be undefeated at this point since we have so much talent on this team.  We would most likely end up in the Final 4 with only a few losses (ku).

Point B: Beasley is only slightly better than Derrick Coleman, and Walker is just another Kenny Gregory.

 

IN the same thread?  That absolute .... genius.

[WilliamTheWildcat]

"They call him Frank".  If that's not out of control.... what is?

[KSU4ME]

Urinating on the court.  If a coach can't potty train his players, how good can he possibly be?

[Pete]

Urinating on the court.  If a coach can't potty train his players, how good can he possibly be?

QFT.  You never saw Kenny Gregory peeing on the jayhawk.

[GoodForAnother]

I like the Mangino analogy.  We all used to think he was an idiot.  Now that he's successful, we claim him as a credit to Snyder's coaching tree.

[WavetheWheat]

Nothing.  He has done a better job than I imagined he could have putting together the puzzle of this team.  I thought he would have problems finding a spot for so many similar players and a superstar in Beasley.

Walker's improvement (playing to original expectations) and Beasley's phenomenal year has made Frank's job easier, but it still could have imploded with the other guys not seeing the ball as much.  Also he has been able to get these amazing players to actually play defense; I also thought he would struggle with that.

I am willing to say he is a better coach and far exceeded expectations I had for him thus far...

BUT....

I think we can all agree getting players like Beasley and Walker to Manhattan is an anomaly.  I reserve right to judgment on his capability until we see a more realistic amount of talent in Manhattan.  I could see this whole thing imploding in 2-3 years.  I could also see him having a reasonable amount of success with slightly less talent.

I would grade his coaching ability as - "Too Soon to Tell; but looks promising" which is a huge upgrade from - "What a joke they hired that guy."

[yosh]

I agree that we aren't likely to see many top 10 guys in the future, but we have two other top 100 guys in Sutton and Clemente with 2 committed for the 09 team.  It wouldn't be a stretch at all to say we'll have a starting line-up of all top 100 players within a year after Beasley and Walker are gone.  With that kind of base talent, it might not be impossible to get another top 20 player here or there in the future.

[michigancat]

I agree that we aren't likely to see many top 10 guys in the future, but we have two other top 100 guys in Sutton and Clemente with 2 committed for the 09 team.  It wouldn't be a stretch at all to say we'll have a starting line-up of all top 100 players within a year after Beasley and Walker are gone.  With that kind of base talent, it might not be impossible to get another top 20 player here or there in the future.

Those 2009 recruits are better than anyone in the North not named Kansas is getting commitments from.



















OK, they're better than ku's current commits, too.

[Ben]

I have to admit, I was damn impressed with Frank Martin's coaching job in that Xavier game.  To keep it within 26 was a testament to how well-coached and fundamentally sound K-State's team is.

[WavetheWheat]

I agree that we aren't likely to see many top 10 guys in the future, but we have two other top 100 guys in Sutton and Clemente with 2 committed for the 09 team.  It wouldn't be a stretch at all to say we'll have a starting line-up of all top 100 players within a year after Beasley and Walker are gone.  With that kind of base talent, it might not be impossible to get another top 20 player here or there in the future.

I have no problem with above...(well I don't think you will get top 20 guys) but eitherway, top 100 guys is a HUGE difference from top 1 or 2 players in the country.

For instance Mizzou has 3 or 4 top 100 guys...if you give Frank Martin that team would he have a better record than Mike Anderson?

[Thin Blue Line]

I have to admit, I was damn impressed with Frank Martin's coaching job in that Xavier game.  To keep it within 26 was a testament to how well-coached and fundamentally sound K-State's team is.

Your ablility to cut right to the heart of the matter is what makes you that much more of a BB genious and man than any of us could ever hope to be. I cower in your shadow. Thanks for being you, BMWJhawk....MWMHjwalk.........BMOVEMENT......BMWJsquawk......Oh screw it.

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I agree that we aren't likely to see many top 10 guys in the future, but we have two other top 100 guys in Sutton and Clemente with 2 committed for the 09 team.  It wouldn't be a stretch at all to say we'll have a starting line-up of all top 100 players within a year after Beasley and Walker are gone.  With that kind of base talent, it might not be impossible to get another top 20 player here or there in the future.

I have no problem with above...(well I don't think you will get top 20 guys) but eitherway, top 100 guys is a HUGE difference from top 1 or 2 players in the country.

For instance Mizzou has 3 or 4 top 100 guys...if you give Frank Martin that team would he have a better record than Mike Anderson?

100% without question - YES.

[ksu_FAN]

I have to admit, I was damn impressed with Frank Martin's coaching job in that Xavier game.  To keep it within 26 was a testament to how well-coached and fundamentally sound K-State's team is.

Great use of P.NTP#3.

[michigancat]

I agree that we aren't likely to see many top 10 guys in the future, but we have two other top 100 guys in Sutton and Clemente with 2 committed for the 09 team.  It wouldn't be a stretch at all to say we'll have a starting line-up of all top 100 players within a year after Beasley and Walker are gone.  With that kind of base talent, it might not be impossible to get another top 20 player here or there in the future.

I have no problem with above...(well I don't think you will get top 20 guys) but eitherway, top 100 guys is a HUGE difference from top 1 or 2 players in the country.

For instance Mizzou has 3 or 4 top 100 guys...if you give Frank Martin that team would he have a better record than Mike Anderson?

Did I miss something?  Has Mike Anderson signed a top 100 player?

[WavetheWheat]

I said, on the mizzou roster.  I was guessing...I will look it up now.

I'll use RSCI because it combines all rankings.

Jason Horton was ranked 45 in 2004
Marshall Brown was ranked 47 in 2004
Leo Lyons (Criswell) was ranked 66 in 2005

and

Stefhon Hannah was ranked top 25 JUCO player in 2006.

[michigancat]

I said, on the mizzou roster.  I was guessing...I will look it up now.

I'll use RSCI because it combines all rankings.

Jason Horton was ranked 45 in 2004
Marshall Brown was ranked 47 in 2004
Leo Lyons (Criswell) was ranked 66 in 2005

and

Stefhon Hannah was ranked top 25 JUCO player in 2006.

Wow, Anderson sucks.

[yosh]

I agree that we aren't likely to see many top 10 guys in the future, but we have two other top 100 guys in Sutton and Clemente with 2 committed for the 09 team.  It wouldn't be a stretch at all to say we'll have a starting line-up of all top 100 players within a year after Beasley and Walker are gone.  With that kind of base talent, it might not be impossible to get another top 20 player here or there in the future.

I have no problem with above...(well I don't think you will get top 20 guys) but eitherway, top 100 guys is a HUGE difference from top 1 or 2 players in the country.

For instance Mizzou has 3 or 4 top 100 guys...if you give Frank Martin that team would he have a better record than Mike Anderson?

I understand that there is a big difference, but it's better than 85% of D1 teams can claim.  Yes I do think Martin would do better with Missouri's roster, but that's not saying much.  I think Anderson is terrible.  Between him and Sean Sutton, nobody has done less with more.  Both teams had much more talent than K-State last year, but we had the better season.  (I know that was Huggins)

As for the top 20 thing...remains to be seen, but we might already have one.  Wally Judge is the type of player who could end up in the top 20 by the time he gets here. (Currently #26 on Rivals)  We are also listed with three other guys in the 09 top twenty, and made the final 2 for an 08 top 20 player (Kadji).  It's not a stretch.

[cireksu]

I said, on the mizzou roster.  I was guessing...I will look it up now.

I'll use RSCI because it combines all rankings.

Jason Horton was ranked 45 in 2004
Marshall Brown was ranked 47 in 2004
Leo Lyons (Criswell) was ranked 66 in 2005

and

Stefhon Hannah was ranked top 25 JUCO player in 2006.

Wow, Anderson sucks.

I think that Quinn had even more talent one year, I think in 04 or 05 scout had mizzou's overall talent at the top of the big 12.

[sys]

anderson's nephew was a ~ 150ish recruit out of hs.

probably ~ 100 level as a transfer, he exceeded expectations at vanderbilt.


http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=15426&sport=2

[michigancat]

anderson's nephew was a ~ 150ish recruit out of hs.

probably ~ 100 level as a transfer, he exceeded expectations at vanderbilt.


http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=15426&sport=2

OMG!  LIKE, HE CAN'T RELY ON NEPHEWS FOR RECRUITS FOR EVER.

[McGrowlTowelZac]

I have to admit, I was damn impressed with Frank Martin's coaching job in that Xavier game.  To keep it within 26 was a testament to how well-coached and fundamentally sound K-State's team is.

I have been equally impressed by the way Self can take talent loaded teams and constantly lose to inferior opposition in the tourney.  The man is a genius.