LOL @ Minutemen

[Kat Kid]

Minuteman's high-tech border barrier called 'a cow fence'

By Abbie Boudreau and Ken Shiffman
CNN

COCHISE COUNTY, Arizona (CNN) -- It was supposed to be 14 feet high and topped with razor wire. It was also supposed to send a message to Washington that if the government wouldn't seal off the southern border, volunteers could.

Almost two years later, the reality is a five-strand barbed-wire barrier that ranchers dismiss as a mere cattle fence.

The fence to help stop illegal immigration was the dream of Chris Simcox, the founder and president of the Minuteman Defense Corps.

The group has chapters throughout the country, with Minuteman members from as far away as New Hampshire making the trip down to Arizona to participate in citizens' border patrols. They are doing a job Simcox says the federal government is not doing well enough.

Simcox, who participated in border patrols as recently as October, has said, "If elected officials will not lead, then it's up to the citizens."

Volunteers say they heeded Simcox's call because they believe illegal immigration is a grave threat to the security of the United States. They say that they are patriots hoping to make a difference and that they want to help make the United States safe in the wake of the terrorist attacks of 9/11.

"Here we were, grandparents, and we were willing to go down to the border and do something our government wouldn't do," explained Sandy Doty, a former member of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps. VideoWatch how fence has not met volunteers' expectations »

On the Minuteman Web site and in e-mails to members, Simcox asked for donations while making big promises, including a vow to build a fence along the border. It was not just any fence; it was to be 2,000 miles of state-of-the-art fencing at a cost of $55 million.

Simcox described it as "our high-tech, double-layered gauntlet of deterrent."

The fence was described on the Minuteman Web site as 14 feet high, with security cameras and sensors, topped with razor wire and flanked by ditches to stop vehicles. Simcox referred to it as an "Israeli-style" fence, similar to the barrier Israel has erected to keep Palestinians from crossing from the West Bank.

Many Minuteman state and national leaders said that the fence proposal was a complete surprise to them.

"All of a sudden we hear, 'We are going to build a fence if the government doesn't build it!' We all looked at each other and said, 'What!'" said David Jones, a former Minuteman member.

Donations started flowing in. One man actually mortgaged his home and contributed more than $100,000. And on Memorial Day of last year, there was a groundbreaking ceremony on John Ladd's Arizona ranch. But what the Minutemen were building was not a tall, Israeli-style fence.

Former member Bob Wright said, "It wasn't until they actually started the ceremony that it became clear. It was gonna be a cow fence!"

It was a five-strand barbed wire fence that would keep Ladd's cattle in and keep Mexican cattle out. Ladd said he is happy with the fence. But some Minuteman leaders were stunned. In their first-ever interview, these former Simcox lieutenants told CNN they believed that the groundbreaking was a ploy by Simcox to raise even more money.

As a group, these leaders started to question Simcox about how donations were being spent. They wanted to him to provide specifics as to how much money was being raised and how it was being used.

"To this day, we still don't know how much the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps has raised. We don't have a clue, not a clue," Wright said.

They said they wanted to know why the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps was not spending money to help volunteers patrol the borders.

"We needed equipment, and we were not getting equipment," Jones said.

They demanded that Simcox meet them in person to address their concerns and answer their questions. They say he refused to meet with them and subsequently fired them.

Simcox now says that he never promised to build the high-tech security fence on Ladd's ranch. And he insists the barbed-wire fence really does protect the country.

As the Minutemen strung their wire on Ladd's property, another Arizona border rancher, Richard Hodges, agreed to allow Simcox to build nearly a mile of that Israeli-style fence on his land.

That was 10 months ago. CNN visited Hodges' ranch a few weeks ago and found an as-yet-unfinished, tall, wire-mesh fence. There is no razor wire, no trenches, no cameras, which were to be the fancy facial-recognition type.

In a news release, Simcox claimed an Alabama company was going to provide those cameras, but the company told CNN it has made no deal to provide cameras and hasn't heard from the Minutemen in 18 months.

And what happened to all the money donated to the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps is in question.

Simcox posted his group's most recent tax filing and an independent audit on the Minuteman Web site. In the audit, the largest expense listed, by far, is for "professional services," with no further details given.

Meanwhile, Simcox continues to solicit donations to build a fence. But, lately, it sounds as though he is lowering expectations, saying the fence is really just a symbol, a way to prod the government into building a real barrier.

CNN asked Simcox for responses to all of the allegations made by the former insiders. He replied that all of the allegations, as well as CNN's investigation, are "a witch hunt" and "part of a smear campaign." Simcox declined several CNN requests for an interview.

Paul Newman, the board supervisor of Cochise County, Arizona, where Simcox has been building his barbed wire fences, said Simcox's plan for a border fence was a pipe dream from the very beginning. He explained that because the border is a patchwork of public and private land, a private fence builder could never get permission to build on all of it.

Not only would there be wide gaps all along a fence built by the Minutemen, but in October 2006, President Bush signed into law an authorization for nearly 700 miles of federal fence along the Mexico border.

[sys]

good deal for the rancher.

[Dirty Sanchez]

The Minutemen are doing great work defending the invasion.  Too bad their own government is letting that invasion in without firing a shot.

The policy on the border should be to cross at authorized crossing or be fired upon.

American sovereignty is at stake.  Check out the dozens of people who have been kidnapped or killed by drug lords around Laredo, TX.  Mexicans have crossed the border and executed and abducted journalists, law enforcement officers, and ordinary citizens, including two teenage girls who have been reportedly been taken across the border as gifts for a druglord.  If we don't shut the border down, civil war will result.  People are tired of the government betraying them.  The Minutemen are only the beginning.

Of course, they're decried by those on the left who shout down anyone who disagrees with them.  See Columbia University.  Those same leftists apparently aren't too thrilled about borders and individual governments.

A borderless society comes straight from the works of Marx and Ingalls.

Most reasonable Americans will die before they live under that kind of regime.

[michigancat]

The Minutemen are doing great work defending the invasion.  Too bad their own government is letting that invasion in without firing a shot.

The policy on the border should be to cross at authorized crossing or be fired upon.

American sovereignty is at stake.  Check out the dozens of people who have been kidnapped or killed by drug lords around Laredo, TX.  Mexicans have crossed the border and executed and abducted journalists, law enforcement officers, and ordinary citizens, including two teenage girls who have been reportedly been taken across the border as gifts for a druglord.  If we don't shut the border down, civil war will result.  People are tired of the government betraying them.  The Minutemen are only the beginning.

Of course, they're decried by those on the left who shout down anyone who disagrees with them.  See Columbia University.  Those same leftists apparently aren't too thrilled about borders and individual governments.

A borderless society comes straight from the works of Marx and Ingalls.

Most reasonable Americans will die before they live under that kind of regime.

lofflepoops.

You're f*cking insane.

[Dirty Sanchez]

There's a reasonable argument.  Don't argue the points, just call the other guy stupid or insane.  Exactly what I was saying about the shout-down leftists.

Point: Me

[michigancat]

I didn't read past "defending the invasion".

FWIW.

[steve dave]

I bet the right wing/left wing split on this board can be found in the pheasant hunting thread.  

also, agree with Rus that "defending the invasion" in lollerpalooza

[michigancat]

I bet the right wing/left wing split on this board can be found in the pheasant hunting thread. 

also, agree with Rus that "defending the invasion" in lollerpalooza

I don't think I can be defined in a right or left wing.  Both contradict themselves so much.  I'm very anti abortion, but also very anti death penalty.  I like pheasant hunting, but I also worry about taking care of the environment (you would think most hunters would worry about the environment, but that isn't the case 99% of the time.)

I'm mostly a Kat Kid-ist.  I pretty much repeat what he repeats from his political blogs, (because I agree with most of it).  Kind of like how he should repeat what I repeat from music blogs.  We'd, like be, the ultimate cool person if that happened.

[ECN]

heard that common lily allen song?

[michigancat]

heard that common lily allen song?

Yeah, very cool.  I caught a snippet on the blogs a while back.

Overall, I'm not a big Common fan (too preachy/wordy, not flowy enough), but that song is good.

[ECN]

heard that common lily allen song?

Yeah, very cool.  I caught a snippet on the blogs a while back.

Overall, I'm not a big Common fan (too preachy/wordy, not flowy enough), but that song is good.

same here on the common theory. song is waaay cool.

im still trying to find my password...ive been wanting to add, but cant. 

[fatty fat fat]

I bet the right wing/left wing split on this board can be found in the pheasant hunting thread. 

also, agree with Rus that "defending the invasion" in lollerpalooza

I don't think I can be defined in a right or left wing.  Both contradict themselves so much.  I'm very anti abortion, but also very anti death penalty.  I like pheasant hunting, but I also worry about taking care of the environment (you would think most hunters would worry about the environment, but that isn't the case 99% of the time.)

I'm mostly a Kat Kid-ist.  I pretty much repeat what he repeats from his political blogs, (because I agree with most of it).  Kind of like how he should repeat what I repeat from music blogs.  We'd, like be, the ultimate cool person if that happened.

I use to be anti-abortion...until I realized the right is also anti-abortion.

I switched immed.

[michigancat]

heard that common lily allen song?

Yeah, very cool.  I caught a snippet on the blogs a while back.

Overall, I'm not a big Common fan (too preachy/wordy, not flowy enough), but that song is good.

same here on the common theory. song is waaay cool.

im still trying to find my password...ive been wanting to add, but cant. 

can't you have them email it to you?

you could also just start w/ a new account, too.

[sys]

the real rofllering will be after the US builds their big border fence.  watching guatemalans fly to canada and stroll south will keep me on the floor for days.

[steve dave]

Canadians trying to enter our country and spread their damned free healthcare and clean air!

[sys]

mexico has a better health care system than the US.  seriously.

and they don't have crazy mexican patriots threatening to kill americans that use their clean, professional, tax-payer subsidized facilities.

[steve dave]

mexico has a better health care system than the US.  seriously.

I love Mexico...just not Matamoras   

[sys]

the entire border region is really ugly.

[steve dave]

the entire border region is really ugly.

especially the far east Matamorasy area.

[shaft3500]

holy frack, dirty sanchos is one crazy sum biatch. just don't go all tim mcveigh/terry nichols. we don't need to make kansas look any more retarded(see: evolution v fairy tales in schools)

oh ya, and steve dave, do you just assume all hunters are dirty sancho confederate flag waving crazies? i love hunting and would definetly align myself more with donkeys than elephants, that would be if i considered a two party system to be worth a crap.

rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.

[steve dave]

I am a social liberal and fiscal conservative.  Registered Libertarian.  I don't hunt.  I was not assuming everyone that hunted was a right wing crazy.  Ted Nugent (< what I picture when I think of hunting) can fill you in on the rest.

[shaft3500]

sweet dude, libertarian. i would have registered as one of those, but i guess i didn't for the same reason i have didn't vote for nader for prez in the last election. i didn't vote for anyone instead.

social liberal and fiscal conservative? are you bipolar or do you just hate yourself?

[steve dave]

social liberal and fiscal conservative? are you bipolar or do you just hate yourself?

I like people to be able to do and say whatever they want but I don't like having to pay for it.

[sys]

I like people to be able to do and say whatever they want but I don't like having to pay for it.

me and steve dave, like this:

 

[steve dave]

I like people to be able to do and say whatever they want but I don't like having to pay for it.

me and steve dave, like this:

 

 

[michigancat]

rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.

No.

Do you have a last.fm profile?  You should get one.  I just fired mine up this week, and it's pretty cool.

[shaft3500]

rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.

No.

Do you have a last.fm profile?  You should get one.  I just fired mine up this week, and it's pretty cool.

no, if io listen to any internet radio, i use the yahoo launchcast one cuz their rating system is pretty good and i have well over 1000 bands rated as well as several 'stations' i think they call them moods. those thingsare all about the rating systems, how is last.fm's?

[michigancat]

seems to be pretty good.

What I like is you can see what everyone else is listening to.

[Dirty Sanchez]

holy frack, dirty sanchos is one crazy sum biatch. just don't go all tim mcveigh/terry nichols. we don't need to make kansas look any more retarded(see: evolution v fairy tales in schools)

oh ya, and steve dave, do you just assume all hunters are dirty sancho confederate flag waving crazies? i love hunting and would definetly align myself more with donkeys than elephants, that would be if i considered a two party system to be worth a crap.

rusty, have you listened to much ...trail of dead? i just went back and listened to their source tags and codes album, it is really really good.

Here we go with calling the other guy crazy again rather than listening to what they have to say. 

I'm hardly a Timothy McVeigh type.  Its well known that Americans favor closing the border and limiting access to illegal aliens, but elected officials repeatedly fail to act on the people's behalf.  It is very much an Enlightenment (18th C Jefferson/Locke type Enlightenment--not the same that modern libs have dubbed themselves so they can tell everyone else what to do and think) idea that when a government fails to act on behalf of the people, that the people have a right to change the government.  Not saying I'm going to do it, but discontent over the situation is growing.

Most avid outdoorsmen are active environmentalists, just not environmental activists.  Big difference.  One acts, the other talks.  Afterall, why would we destroy the thing we love to do in our spare time? 

And I hardly wave a confederate flag.  If other people want to, that's fine.  Their freedom. 

I sense a growing division in our house, and a house divided shall not stand.  I choose not to be one of those driving the wedge.

[michigancat]

Its well known that Americans favor closing the border and limiting access to illegal aliens, but elected officials repeatedly fail to act on the people's behalf.  It is very much an Enlightenment (18th C Jefferson/Locke type Enlightenment--not the same that modern libs have dubbed themselves so they can tell everyone else what to do and think) idea that when a government fails to act on behalf of the people, that the people have a right to change the government.

Um, you can change the government by electing new elected officials. 

And you're not "driving the wedge"?  LOL.  OK.