Any indications that Prince will be better than mediocre?

[chum1]

If not, why not start thinking about replacing him?  If he doesn't become better than mediocre, did we make a mistake by taking a chance on someone with so little experience?

[KSUTOMMY]

Chum, let me ask you this - since our losses hinged on lack of defense, it would only make sense that if we had an offense, we would be undefeated? Look at Gay U's offense - nothing special, (that's honesty folks) Gay U has proven, with a better than average defense, especially in this league, you can do very well.

I still think that 4 yrs is the minimum here.

[sonofdaxjones]

There a certainly indications that Prince will be better than mediocre, there's also reasons for concern.  As I think about it, we're all pissed by some developments this year, when we should be a little more patient and see if some of these issues can't be worked out in year 3 and 4.   

[kougar24]

It's like we're in Purgatory. 

[ksu_FAN]

We really don't know for sure either way what we have in Prince.  The end of this season will tell us a lot.  Go 2-1 from here on out and win our bowl game and most will feel pretty decent about this season.  Go 1-2 and miss out and many will be calling for Prince's head.  Go 3-0 and win a bowl game and most will be calling for a long term extension and ISU will be forgotten.  There is too much football left this year to lock down any opinions on where Prince has us going IMO.  Even then, he will be given at least 2 more years after this one barring some 1-3 win meltdown year next year.

[tmramrod91]

KSU would have 1, maybe 2 losses this year if the D was a little more stingy at the end of 3 games. I'll give a semi free pass because of the complete overhaul of a system, and a few key injuries/suspensions. If its not improved next year, area for concern definately.
The improvement of the offense is a major step forward.
Gotta wait till year 4/5 to see how it pans out.  

[chum1]

I think it's interesting that the most optimistic thing we can say about Prince is that we have to give him time.  That didn't work out so well for Nebraska.

[Bullfn33]

You can't build a program in a year and a half.  Knock off these PMSing threads calling for Prince's head or even bringing up the thought after every damn loss.  Nothing but a bunch of FPs on this board like all the other boards.  JMO, but people need to get over it already.

[chum1]

Another one having trouble finding something positive to say about Prince.  We're pretty quick to defend without seeming to have much of a grasp of what we're defending.

[ksu_FAN]

I think it's interesting that the most optimistic thing we can say about Prince is that we have to give him time.  That didn't work out so well for Nebraska.

I don't think that is the most optimistic thing.  The Texas wins are a solid pair of wins.  OSU last year and CU this year were solid wins.  We have been in and had chances in the 4th to win every game we've played this year, that wasn't the case last year.  Granted, I know the "losing close" thing is a slippery slope, but in year 2 I still think it is legitimate.  Offensively we have shown major improvement this year and we are still showing big play ability in special teams.  The biggest negatives IMO are the BU and ISU losses, the ku losses, and the inability to finish in the close games this year when we had plenty of opportunities.  Defensively we are a work in progress and the regression during a 2nd season in a row is a concern.  

I think the positives outweigh the negatives right now, though it isn't as clear cut after the loss to ISU.

[snyderfanatic]

I did not like the hire when it was made and do not see us doing much under Prince. That said, we gave the man a five year contract and unless he cheats (see ku) or gets arrested, he should be allowed to fulfill his contract. I still love America even though our President is a dork. 

[BostonPancake]

I think it's interesting that the most optimistic thing we can say about Prince is that we have to give him time.  That didn't work out so well for Nebraska.

Nebraska did win the north last year, so at this time last year it was looking fine.  I don't know what the hell has gone wrong for them this year, but I must say that I didn't see it coming.

[AzCat]

Off the top of my head:

* Last year we had close wins and blowout losses; this year we've had blowout wins and close losses.  That's improvement which is about all you can ask for.

* The O/U on wins for the average first year D-IA FB HC is like 3.  When improvements happen you typically see a spike in the W/L record in the first couple of years of a new HC's tenure as compared to the last couple of years under the previous HC.

* Prince landed a franchise QB in his first year.

* The defense is still better than last year and last year it was better than the prior year.

* The offense is night-and-day better than recent years and that's without a legit OL.

* The players play with a lot of enthusiasm.  Whenever there's a ball on the ground there're a couple of Wildcats diving towards it.  Bob Huggins wanted his hoops team to play like that but they declined, newbie HC RP has his team doing it already.

* This year's team has enough talent to win maybe 3 games this season.  They've already won 5 with at least 3 to go.

There're many signs that Prince is good enough to be a very very solid HC long term.  The only real area of concern is recruiting where he really needs to step up.

[Bullfn33]

Another one having trouble finding something positive to say about Prince.  We're pretty quick to defend without seeming to have much of a grasp of what we're defending.

The point is bringing up talk about firing Prince in less than two years because he lost this game or that game is a waste of time.  FWIW, I think this team is better than a year ago when we don't make mistakes.  The offense is way more explosive with an improved Oline, special teams are about the same as last year which was pretty damn good and the defense is going through a tough time but they do force more turnovers while our depth has taken a hit during the season.  We are playing a tougher schedule mainly because the Big 12 is much better than a year ago.  The North is weak crap doesn't fly anymore.  This division is very good aside from Nebraska and Iowa State is certainly better right now than last year. 

Prince needs time and deserves time to keep building.  Firing Prince would set this program further back and it's an irrational thought a year and a half in.  As irrational as Huggins bolting a year into his tenure.

[michigancat]

I'm cool with sustained mediocrity in football.

Just so there's no sh*tty 3-9 type seasons.

[kougar24]

I'm cool with sustained mediocrity in football.

Just so there's no sh*tty 3-9 type seasons.

Interesting.

[michigancat]

I'm cool with sustained mediocrity in football.

Just so there's no sh*tty 3-9 type seasons.

Interesting.

Sustained mediocrity usually leads to pretty good seasons:

See:  Pinkel, Mangino, Al Groh, Jim Grobe, Tom O'Brien, etc.

[ksu_FAN]

Someone said it in the TV thread for the MU game, but Prince has also brought the program a significant amount of exposure.  He's gotten us on national TV a bunch already through his scheduling practices and having enough success.  Hopefully this will pan out and benefit our program in other ways (recruiting), but we'll have to see.  

[The Whale]

I'm cool with sustained mediocrity in football.

Just so there's no sh*tty 3-9 type seasons.

Does that make Weiser CFB's version of Carl Peterson?

[catzacker]

Even if you think Ron's mediocre, you still have to give at least 4, probably 5 years.  Firing coaches after 2 or 3 years (unless they are ungodly horrible) isn't really a good practice. 

I hope KSU fans are bracing for next year.  It doesn't look all that promising.  I think the  schedule is more difficult than this year (although that still won't keep me from melting down).

[Legore]

If not, why not start thinking about replacing him?  If he doesn't become better than mediocre, did we make a mistake by taking a chance on someone with so little experience?

It would be the dumbest thing in the world to hire a guy with little experience then train him on the job for two years and fire him.  We knew he was young and inexperienced when he took the job any reasonable person should have realized he'd have growing pains and it would take time.  Given what  he was walking into I think even a proven experienced coach would have struggled to do any better then what he has.  To even talk about replacing him now is beyond stupid.
      

[fatty fat fat]

If not, why not start thinking about replacing him?  If he doesn't become better than mediocre, did we make a mistake by taking a chance on someone with so little experience?

Only if he wins out will I be totally on board with Prince not being a mediocre coach.

8-5 is mediocre, but acceptable. 9-4 is a huge jump from 8-5.

[snyderfanatic]

I still say Prince be given his 5 years unless bad stuff (illegal) happens....
After all we are not an outlaw program like ku or old UNLV, that tolerates cheaters and is so starved to win that we will break all rules....
Can one imagine the negative publicity KSU would get for firing a black coach with a decent record after only two years on the job?
Firing Prince would set us on a course to be the baylor of the North....   

[Wildcat Jack]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

[LimestoneOutcropping]

Even if you think Ron's mediocre, you still have to give at least 4, probably 5 years.  Firing coaches after 2 or 3 years (unless they are ungodly horrible) isn't really a good practice. 

I hope KSU fans are bracing for next year.  It doesn't look all that promising.  I think the  schedule is more difficult than this year (although that still won't keep me from melting down).

Any year that doesn't have Watts flailing around like a hippie at a Panic show will be better than this year.

[tmramrod91]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

So 4 straight 9 win seasons (with only 11 game schedules) is mediocre? You've got to be kidding me. I'd kill for 4 straight 9 win seasons.

[Wildcat Jack]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

So 4 straight 9 win seasons (with only 11 game schedules) is mediocre? You've got to be kidding me. I'd kill for 4 straight 9 win seasons.

Did we ever beat anybody worth a crap in those 4 years?  We won the games we were supposed to win.  We beat some teams that were even with us.  We never beat a team better than us.  It was the Snyder plan executed to perfection.  We didn't truly become great until '97.  The point is there's no indication that we're worse off than when Snyder took over and we didn't truly become great until '97.....

[michigancat]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

So 4 straight 9 win seasons (with only 11 game schedules) is mediocre? You've got to be kidding me. I'd kill for 4 straight 9 win seasons.

Did we ever beat anybody worth a crap in those 4 years?  We won the games we were supposed to win.  We beat some teams that were even with us.  We never beat a team better than us.  It was the Snyder plan executed to perfection.  We didn't truly become great until '97.  The point is there's no indication that we're worse off than when Snyder took over and we didn't truly become great until '97.....

qft.

Here are the wins over conference teams with winning records:

93:  9-3 OU
94:  6-5 ku
95:  10-2 ku
96:  7-5 TT

That's it.

[tmramrod91]

There was no indication we were going to be anything but mediocre until 1997.....so it seems pretty comical this question would even be asked.

So 4 straight 9 win seasons (with only 11 game schedules) is mediocre? You've got to be kidding me. I'd kill for 4 straight 9 win seasons.

Did we ever beat anybody worth a crap in those 4 years?  We won the games we were supposed to win.  We beat some teams that were even with us.  We never beat a team better than us.  It was the Snyder plan executed to perfection.  We didn't truly become great until '97.  The point is there's no indication that we're worse off than when Snyder took over and we didn't truly become great until '97.....

I'll agree with the fact they didnt become "great" till '97. Snyder's losses predominantly came from 1)NU (who was a machine in the '90's) and CU, who was also pretty good.
I'd still take beating the crap out of crap teams and winning 9 games and losing to top 5 teams in the country than getting one upset a yr and losing to ISU ('93 withstanding)

[The Whale]

Even if you think Ron's mediocre, you still have to give at least 4, probably 5 years.  Firing coaches after 2 or 3 years (unless they are ungodly horrible) isn't really a good practice. 

I hope KSU fans are bracing for next year.  It doesn't look all that promising.  I think the  schedule is more difficult than this year (although that still won't keep me from melting down).

It's amazing how much this board is melting down now that catzacker is one of the more positive / let's see Prince through posters.

People got far too giddy after the Texas win -- this team is the same as it was at the start of the season, a 6-7 win team with a tough schedule.