Watched the replay of the OSU game last night...

[The Manhatter]

and some this morning.

I would guess that 80% of OSU's rushing yards came on the edge.  That is not the defensive line, people.  I didn't see a DL getting blown off the ball and when OSU did try to run right at the DL they had mixed success.

This was about DB and LB play.  Sure, the DE is part of that but they were usually getting doubled.

Sprint option, people.  A 320lb NT had nothing to do w/ it....watch it for yourselves.

And once OSU got inside the redzone...nothing on the ground.  I am horrified they completed those 3rd & long passes...that first one to Bryant was a joke...Robinson off his back foot and getting smoked.

But for those who keep after our DL....feel free to watch the replay and then talk about how 3 DLineman are supposed to cover a sprint option...and this sprint option gets to that corner pretty quick.

And it's tough to stop those runs on the edges too...the corners are at the mercy of huge receivers (Bowman and Bryant are not tater tots) and they have to think pass first...the safeties have to be honest w/ the pass.  I blame the LB play more than anything.

[steve dave]

Did it look better or worse than it sounded?  Also, good use of tator-tots in post.

[KSUTOMMY]

Thanks for the info! That is not what I expected, not suprising though - ku and the arm tackles. That is just disappointing... the second coming of Josh Buhl would be nice right now.

[The Manhatter]

Did it look better or worse than it sounded?  Also, good use of tator-tots in post.

It looked about the way I suspected it would.  People discount how versatile and deadly this OSU offense is....I mean look at Pettigrew's TD YAC.  Hilarious a 6-5 270lb man can move like that.  He's an extra OT out there(and he doubles down on our ends or will chip a LB) and yet he's THAT effective as a receiver.

Think about that.  Bowman is known as a very good blocker....he's only 6-4 230 w/ long arms and athletic.  When you factor in all the components of their offense...it's maddening to stop.  

Robinson has great speed so when he runs option he's at that corner in the blink of an eye...by the time our secondary knows what is happening they have a guy like Bowman on top of them.  Then Savage has great balance, burst, etc.

It's just not that simple.

I didn't think the tape looked that bad...I didn't like the LB play and there were too many missed tackles but this wasn't about physical domination.

If people remember our running game back in the early '00's...remember how people would say we didn't "dominate"...we were not that physical and would get stuffed a lot trying to run between the tackles.  It was our components and ability of the runners.  Scheme is a big part.

[fatty fat fat]

Did freeman look like a god?

[The Manhatter]

Did freeman look like a god?

Yeah, but OSUck had a lot to do w/ that.  Their defense is pathetic.  I do think the offense is getting in rythm...part of it is KSU but OSU couldn't get much pressure and our receivers got open so easily.

I cannot fathom NU's inability to move the ball on their defense.

Don't get me wrong...the offense is getting better every game and Freeman made a lot of GREAT throws but OSU is just a bad defense.

[fatty fat fat]

damnit. OSU's D can't be worse than NU/BU/ISU

[The Manhatter]

damnit. OSU's D can't be worse than NU/BU/ISU

not worse than NU D.

Better athletes than BU but don't think they play as well.

ISU's defense will surprise you...they have more athletes and speed on defense than you think.  Bowen, Bell, Singleton, etc....they have some high major athletes on their defense.  There is a reason they gave Oklahoma some fits and not all of it was due to OU's inconsistency.

[catzacker]

So our ILB and OLB couldn't get to the play?  The DE was doubled teamed by who?...the OT and guard or OT and TE? 

[fatty fat fat]

You and ISU.


 

[frankencat]

The game replay will be on at Players in Wichita, if interested.

[The Manhatter]

So our ILB and OLB couldn't get to the play?  The DE was doubled teamed by who?...the OT and guard or OT and TE? 

So our ILB and OLB couldn't get to the play?  The DE was doubled teamed by who?...the OT and guard or OT and TE?  

sometimes two lineman, sometimes a lineman and TE, sometimes a lineman and FB, sometimes a lineman and a slot.  Believe it or not the blocking schemes change up.  And they were not always doubled.

If you look at the start of a play...6 OL(a 6-5 270lb Pettigrew is essentially a very mobile, extra OT) and a FB(when one is in)...vs. a 3 man front.  That DE will get reached nearly every time and the ball will be on top of the corner in a hurry.

I know you think it's easy to stop..but it isn't  And they can run downhill on some very good defenses when their timing is there.  We played it will at times but not enough...they really get that ball in space a lot.

[catzacker]

So our ILB and OLB couldn't get to the play?  The DE was doubled teamed by who?...the OT and guard or OT and TE? 

So our ILB and OLB couldn't get to the play?  The DE was doubled teamed by who?...the OT and guard or OT and TE?  

sometimes two lineman, sometimes a lineman and TE, sometimes a lineman and FB, sometimes a lineman and a slot.  Believe it or not the blocking schemes change up.  And they were not always doubled.

If you look at the start of a play...6 OL(a 6-5 270lb Pettigrew is essentially a very mobile, extra OT) and a FB(when one is in)...vs. a 3 man front.  That DE will get reached nearly every time and the ball will be on top of the corner in a hurry.

I know you think it's easy to stop..but it isn't  And they can run downhill on some very good defenses when their timing is there.  We played it will at times but not enough...they really get that ball in space a lot.

I never said it was easy or that the blocking schemes didn't change.  I was asking because my assumption was that our NT was getting owned as he has the past two games.  I'm glad the ownage has been spread to the LB's and DB's as well. 

[The Manhatter]

I never said it was easy or that the blocking schemes didn't change.  I was asking because my assumption was that our NT was getting pwn3d as he has the past two games.  I'm glad the ownage has been spread to the LB's and DB's as well. 

Watch it for yourself and judge.

The offense we faced Saturday night would have moved the ball w/ a lot of success on our '03 Big 12 championship defense as well.

[catzacker]

I never said it was easy or that the blocking schemes didn't change.  I was asking because my assumption was that our NT was getting pwn3d as he has the past two games.  I'm glad the ownage has been spread to the LB's and DB's as well. 

Watch it for yourself and judge.

The offense we faced Saturday night would have moved the ball w/ a lot of success on our '03 Big 12 championship defense as well.

Tetuan would've made every tackle. 

[steve dave]

Tetuan would've made every tackle. 

LOL

Tetuan every time he goes to the bars 

[Legore]

One thing that I think gets ignored about OSU's offense and what makes their option so tough to defend is how physical their big WR's are in run blocking.   Having Bowman out there on the edge blocking on those option plays is almost unfair when he's matched up on a 180 pound corner or 190 pound safety. 

As hatter mentioned Pettigrew is like an extra tackle in the run game but runs well in the pass game.  Bowman is almost like a TE with his size and strength in the run game but obviously has great speed and ability in the passing game.   When OSU runs they basically have a jumbo set on the field at all times like most teams use around the goal line but the difference is these guys can flat run and they can open it up and stretch the field with those guys if they want too. 

[kougar24]

Watch it for yourself

I'd rather die, thanks.

Shouldn't the 3-4 be effective at slowing an outside rushing attack? Are our LBs having trouble with the schemes and where they're supposed to be? Athleticism isn't the problem, so I would assume that narrows it down to either a) our LBs are stupid, or b) Tibs is failing.

[ksu_FAN]

Watch it for yourself

I'd rather die, thanks.

Shouldn't the 3-4 be effective at slowing an outside rushing attack? Are our LBs having trouble with the schemes and where they're supposed to be? Athleticism isn't the problem, so I would assume that narrows it down to either a) our LBs are stupid, or b) Tibs is failing.

We chose to keep our safties back much of the game to help with the WR and TE.  That puts a ton of pressure on the LBs to make plays.  We then brought a lot of heat on obvious pass situations and got burnt a couple of times.  If we loaded 8 in the box I'm betting we slow down their running game, but Bowman probably goes for 200 yards or more and OSU has 2 or 3 play drives instead of 8-10.  It was the gamble we took counting on our Offense and STs to play solid enough to win.

[kougar24]

Watch it for yourself

I'd rather die, thanks.

Shouldn't the 3-4 be effective at slowing an outside rushing attack? Are our LBs having trouble with the schemes and where they're supposed to be? Athleticism isn't the problem, so I would assume that narrows it down to either a) our LBs are stupid, or b) Tibs is failing.

We chose to keep our safties back much of the game to help with the WR and TE.  That puts a ton of pressure on the LBs to make plays.  We then brought a lot of heat on obvious pass situations and got burnt a couple of times.  If we loaded 8 in the box I'm betting we slow down their running game, but Bowman probably goes for 200 yards or more and OSU has 2 or 3 play drives instead of 8-10.  It was the gamble we took counting on our Offense and STs to play solid enough to win.

But OSU's ground O isn't that good. We shouldn't have to bring our safeties up to stop their rushing attack.

[ksu_FAN]

Watch it for yourself

I'd rather die, thanks.

Shouldn't the 3-4 be effective at slowing an outside rushing attack? Are our LBs having trouble with the schemes and where they're supposed to be? Athleticism isn't the problem, so I would assume that narrows it down to either a) our LBs are stupid, or b) Tibs is failing.

We chose to keep our safties back much of the game to help with the WR and TE.  That puts a ton of pressure on the LBs to make plays.  We then brought a lot of heat on obvious pass situations and got burnt a couple of times.  If we loaded 8 in the box I'm betting we slow down their running game, but Bowman probably goes for 200 yards or more and OSU has 2 or 3 play drives instead of 8-10.  It was the gamble we took counting on our Offense and STs to play solid enough to win.

That would appease me if we were playing the Colts, but OSU's ground O isn't that good. We shouldn't have to bring our safeties up to stop their rushing attack.

Colts?  95 Huskers or something like that would've been a better comparison.

To stop a very good option attack (and OSU is very good) you've got to have safties involved, especially where we are at personnel-wise.  There aren't going to be many teams that stop OSU's ground game playing 7 in the box, especially now that Savage is back.

That said, 300+ yards is rediculous.  Even against OSU you've got to go in hoping to hold their ground game to 200 or so and 150 or so through the air.  Then you'd have a good chance.  Really no excuse for giving up 329 and 5.6 per.

[kougar24]

Watch it for yourself

I'd rather die, thanks.

Shouldn't the 3-4 be effective at slowing an outside rushing attack? Are our LBs having trouble with the schemes and where they're supposed to be? Athleticism isn't the problem, so I would assume that narrows it down to either a) our LBs are stupid, or b) Tibs is failing.

We chose to keep our safties back much of the game to help with the WR and TE.  That puts a ton of pressure on the LBs to make plays.  We then brought a lot of heat on obvious pass situations and got burnt a couple of times.  If we loaded 8 in the box I'm betting we slow down their running game, but Bowman probably goes for 200 yards or more and OSU has 2 or 3 play drives instead of 8-10.  It was the gamble we took counting on our Offense and STs to play solid enough to win.

That would appease me if we were playing the Colts, but OSU's ground O isn't that good. We shouldn't have to bring our safeties up to stop their rushing attack.

Colts?  95 Huskers or something like that would've been a better comparison.

To stop a very good option attack (and OSU is very good) you've got to have safties involved, especially where we are at personnel-wise.  There aren't going to be many teams that stop OSU's ground game playing 7 in the box, especially now that Savage is back.

That said, 300+ yards is rediculous.  Even against OSU you've got to go in hoping to hold their ground game to 200 or so and 150 or so through the air.  Then you'd have a good chance.  Really no excuse for giving up 329 and 5.6 per.

I took the Colts reference out 2 minutes before your post.

[ksu_FAN]

Had to look it up per 95 Huskers: 399.8 rushing yards per game.  7.0 YPC.   

[Ichabods7]

and some this morning.


This was about DB and LB play.  Sure, the DE is part of that but they were usually getting doubled.

While watching the game in person I was disappointed with our LB flow in run support. Nearly every option play was run towards Ian's side. He was always all over the pitch man and the QB would tuck it and cut upfield. Only once did we have LB flow to make the play at the line of scrimmage. The QB runs are what killed us.

[cireksu]

DE's still have to be involved, if the de's can't beat or stop the double team EVER, then it is very hard/impossible to stop that option attack to the outside, the fact that we can't disrupt a double team is the DE problem.  The DE has to at least keep the double team at home so one of the doubling blockers cannot scrape off to the LB's.  In a 3 4 you have to count on the 3 down lineman to take up the 5 olinemen so the linebackers are free to make plays. 


Now i didn't see the game so I'm speculating on this but I"m guessing the reason that our lb's couldn't get out in time, if this is the way it happened is bc they were getting caught in the wash, that is to say, our dlinemen couldn't keep the olinemen busy making it impossible for the MLB's to get to the qb outside, OLB has pitch and contain and can't go for the qb.

[PowercatPosse]

I was obviously dissappointed with the KO coverage, which has been the weak part of our special teams for a couple of weeks.

The last kickoff i was really upset with.   The Osu player catches it about 3 yds from the sideline.  #29 (Otis Johnson) did an absolute horrible job of staying in his lane.  Wilson was down there and was not going to get blocked and all Johnson had to do was protect the outside (sideline). 

The Osu player is about 3 yds from the boundary and Johnson was the outside contain player and he was about 7 yds from the boundary.  The Osu player made one little juke and he was free to go up the sideline for an additional 20 yards.   

No one blocked either guy, so  Wilson and Johnson easily make that tackle if Johnson is closer to the boundary, thus not allowing the Osu player to slip past him on the outside. 

20 extra yards they have to go if we cover that KO correctly. 

[cireksu]

I have definately swung my opinion to the st lost the game rather than defense.

[cireksu]

how often was cambell lined up as a d end on 1st and second downs?  I'll settle for never or most of the time.

[Ichabods7]

I'm not quite sure the strategy behind this, but Cambell and Jackson, especially in the first half were on the sideline for 1st and second downs early in the series. When a 3rd down came that was a probable passing down they would go in and line up at the ends. I also agree, the D didn't look horrible, outside of some key missed tackles. The big thing was after the 2 point conversion Prince kicked it deep, probably the best kickoff into the wind of the night. We had outside contain with 3 unblocked guys on the sideline, the returner gave a head fake toward the center of the field and all three bought it, and he took off down the sideline to the 45. They should have been bagged no further than the 25 yard line. It was a huge shift in field position. OSU also did some quick snaps because we were rotating defensive players so often, a few plays started with our safeties well out of position. 

[Bullfn33]

Special teams and defense obviously lost the game.  Special teams is pretty simple to address.  Stay in your fn lanes and don't leave your feet if you are the contain man unless you know for a fact you have him.  The defense is obviously more complicated.  It didn't look quite as bad as I imagined but there are a few things that pissed me off while watching us give up countless big gainers on the ground.

When a team has the ability to rush the ball well and are having success, you MUST commit to stopping the run first and foremost or they will continue to dictate how the plays go.  It seemed to me like we were respecting their pass game WAY too much.  We played our linebackers too far back for too long, so instead of attacking we played reactive and because they have a lot of speed from the QB position they would gain an edge quicker than we could react and hit holes.  We needed to force the issue and commit to stopping the run by loading the box like we did in the Auburn game after the 'stopping the pass first' strategy wasn't working.  We needed to force the issue like we did against Auburn.  Robinson is not that great of a passer.  The completions they got consisted of him lobbing a throw off his back foot and a receiver would make jump up and make a catch.  That wasn't going to work every time but what was working nearly every time was their option run game.  We played a bend but don't break defense and I thought we weren't going to do that.  I wanted to see us load the box, completely disrupt their run game and if they drop back to pass we either get a sack from overwhelming the offensive line, get an incompletion on a hurried throw or give up a completion.  Why didn't we try this when leaving people back to defend the pass wasn't fn working?  Why didn't we send some safeties in every now and then?  Where did the rush defense from early in the year go?  We attacked then, now we are not and that's why we are getting run on.  I'm not liking this defend the pass first against teams that have good rushing games and average throwing QB's.

300+ yards rushing is unacceptable!!!!!!  We could have done much better at stopping the run.  Our secondary is good enough to commit to doing that way more often than we did and I was disappointed we didn't commit to doing that.