Only disappointment I have w/ the defense..

[The Manhatter]

was the 3rd & LONG TD passes...and that is a lot of disappointment..though Pettigrew and Bryant are going to win a lot of jump balls.

LOL at folks talking about run defense.  Have to pick your poison against an offense like that, especially in their house.  LOL when ku and Texas go to Stillwater...good luck stopping them.

Calm down about the run defense...they ran it between the 20's...but they stalled running it in the redzone.  That played out the way we wanted it to...what we didn't want to happen was the 3rd down completions for TD's.  That was the difference along w/ the redzone turnovers.  It doesn't matter how a great offense moves the ball between the 20's be it OSU running the ball or Tech passing the ball...it's when they get to the redzone. 

And when I say "pick your poison" w/ OSU.  Load up to stop the run and instead of a 10 play scoring drive they go 80 in 3 plays ala Lawrence last year.  Force them on longer drives and turnovers can happen.

[hemmy]

2) Tackling

Did awesome in the Auburn game but that is really the only one.

[tmramrod91]

LOL at 300+ rushing yards.
(I get your point but that performance was pathetic...no way to spin it)

[kougar24]

but they stalled running it in the redzone.

Good thing that kept 'em to only 41 points. If they could have ran it in the red zone as well... 

[pufizzle]

LOL at folks talking about run defense. 

Seriously?  I want to know a worse three game stretch in terms of run defense in the last 17 years. 

[cireksu]

Our defense is terrible right now.

DL are too small and get swallowed by double teams.

LB's can't shed blockers and aren't fast enough to overcome.

[catzacker]

but they stalled running it in the redzone.

Good thing that kept 'em to only 41 points. If they could have ran it in the red zone as well... 

Hey, we were picking our poison.  I'm just not sure what poison it was.  We did hold them to 60yds below their conference passing average (they average 245 a game)!  Yippie!  

[pufizzle]

This defense is just like last years defense.  We came out at the beginning of the year and looked phenomenal.  "OMG!!! Lynch Mob!!!! OMFG!!!"  The only problem is that I don't think it was the defense that was phenomenal, it was more the fact that last year was our first year in a Cover 2 and teams didn't have any or much video to scheme us for the first few games.  This year, we go to the 3-4, and it's the same thing.  Auburn had zero video on us not really sure what to expect, then we play 2 high school teams.  UT actually put up decent yardage and then we get raped 3 games in a row.

Teams are making adjustments.......time for Tibesar to do the same. 

[Legore]

How good or how bad you are is only relevant to who is on your schedule.  Everyone's defense is bad against the wrong team and everyone's defense is good against the right team.  Our defense will be pretty good the next three games.  

[cireksu]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

[pufizzle]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

Wrong. 

[catzacker]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting owned and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

[Legore]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting pwn3d and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

The NG didn't get owned vs. OSU that wasn't the problem.  More then anything it was the option, QB run game and the QB scrambles. Savage averged a pedrestrian 4.4 yards per carry it was Robinson that killed us.  We stayed in a 7 man front all night and a good QB run game will kill you when you do that because they can out number you at the point with the designed QB runs or they can option you to death.   It puts a ton of pressure on the LB's to make one on one open field tackles against very gifted athletes.

The coaches had the same plan in this game they had vs. CU stay in the 7 man front and let them get their yards and hope they make mistakes to kill drives or that we can stop them in the red zone.  Didn't work well last night but OSU presents so many problems and they didn't make many mistakes.  They are on a different level offensively with Robinson at QB that kids ability to run and throw to go along with the backs and WR's they have makes them damn near impossible to defend.   

We could have brought up more guys and stuck them in the box but then they would have gone over the top.  Kind of a pick your poisen kind of thing and the coaches chose to die slowly rather then die quick.  If we would have gotten a two score second half lead I think our plan would have worked but our mistakes kept us from ever doing that.   

 

[catzacker]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting pwn3d and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

The NG didn't get pwn3d vs. OSU that wasn't the problem.  More then anything it was the option, QB run game and the QB scrambles. Savage averged a pedrestrian 4.4 yards per carry it was Robinson that killed us.  We stayed in a 7 man front all night and a good QB run game will kill you when you do that because they can out number you at the point with the designed QB runs or they can option you to death.   It puts a ton of pressure on the LB's to make one on one open field tackles against very gifted athletes.

The coaches had the same plan in this game they had vs. CU stay in the 7 man front and let them get their yards and hope they make mistakes to kill drives or that we can stop them in the red zone.  Didn't work well last night but OSU presents so many problems and they didn't make many mistakes.  They are on a different level offensively with Robinson at QB that kids ability to run and throw to go along with the backs and WR's they have makes them damn near impossible to defend.   

We could have brought up more guys and stuck them in the box but then they would have gone over the top.  Kind of a pick your poisen kind of thing and the coaches chose to die slowly rather then die quick.  If we would have gotten a two score second half lead I think our plan would have worked but our mistakes kept us from ever doing that. 

Uh...the NT starts it all in the 3-4.  It doesn't matter if it's a Qb running or a RB running or a pass....the NT not doing his job or rather not having a NT than can do that job filters through to the entire defense.  The guards on either side can filter through to the next level on run plays, and because our defensive pressure is so predictable, the guards have no problem picking up blitzes.  Further, we are undisciplined when we blitz allowing the QB to tuck it and run. 

[~WabashRoll~]

The good thing is all these problems are easily correctable, once we get better players.  Especially ones that don't suck on third down and on the final drives of the fourth quarter.

Hatter is right.  LOL at all you people that just think it was the run defense.  It took an equal effort by everyone, offense, special teams, AND defense to piss this game away to a mediocre O-State squad.

[mjrod]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting pwn3d and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

The NG didn't get pwn3d vs. OSU that wasn't the problem.  More then anything it was the option, QB run game and the QB scrambles. Savage averged a pedrestrian 4.4 yards per carry it was Robinson that killed us.  We stayed in a 7 man front all night and a good QB run game will kill you when you do that because they can out number you at the point with the designed QB runs or they can option you to death.   It puts a ton of pressure on the LB's to make one on one open field tackles against very gifted athletes.

The coaches had the same plan in this game they had vs. CU stay in the 7 man front and let them get their yards and hope they make mistakes to kill drives or that we can stop them in the red zone.  Didn't work well last night but OSU presents so many problems and they didn't make many mistakes.  They are on a different level offensively with Robinson at QB that kids ability to run and throw to go along with the backs and WR's they have makes them damn near impossible to defend.   

We could have brought up more guys and stuck them in the box but then they would have gone over the top.  Kind of a pick your poisen kind of thing and the coaches chose to die slowly rather then die quick.  If we would have gotten a two score second half lead I think our plan would have worked but our mistakes kept us from ever doing that. 

Uh...the NT starts it all in the 3-4.  It doesn't matter if it's a Qb running or a RB running or a pass....the NT not doing his job or rather not having a NT than can do that job filters through to the entire defense.  The guards on either side can filter through to the next level on run plays, and because our defensive pressure is so predictable, the guards have no problem picking up blitzes.  Further, we are undisciplined when we blitz allowing the QB to tuck it and run. 

Wow.  Just absolutely wow.

[Legore]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting pwn3d and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

The NG didn't get pwn3d vs. OSU that wasn't the problem.  More then anything it was the option, QB run game and the QB scrambles. Savage averged a pedrestrian 4.4 yards per carry it was Robinson that killed us.  We stayed in a 7 man front all night and a good QB run game will kill you when you do that because they can out number you at the point with the designed QB runs or they can option you to death.   It puts a ton of pressure on the LB's to make one on one open field tackles against very gifted athletes.

The coaches had the same plan in this game they had vs. CU stay in the 7 man front and let them get their yards and hope they make mistakes to kill drives or that we can stop them in the red zone.  Didn't work well last night but OSU presents so many problems and they didn't make many mistakes.  They are on a different level offensively with Robinson at QB that kids ability to run and throw to go along with the backs and WR's they have makes them damn near impossible to defend.   

We could have brought up more guys and stuck them in the box but then they would have gone over the top.  Kind of a pick your poisen kind of thing and the coaches chose to die slowly rather then die quick.  If we would have gotten a two score second half lead I think our plan would have worked but our mistakes kept us from ever doing that. 

Uh...the NT starts it all in the 3-4.  It doesn't matter if it's a Qb running or a RB running or a pass....the NT not doing his job or rather not having a NT than can do that job filters through to the entire defense.  The guards on either side can filter through to the next level on run plays, and because our defensive pressure is so predictable, the guards have no problem picking up blitzes.  Further, we are undisciplined when we blitz allowing the QB to tuck it and run. 

I wish we had Sam Adams playing the NG for us but we don't.  Even if we did it wouldn't solve all of our problems.  It wasn't really the issue last night it has been a issue for us at times but last night wasn't that style of game and OSU isn't that type of team.  I think some of you think a little too much NFL where the run game is all handoff and mainly between the tackles.  

College is so much different and there are so many more aspects to the run games.  No NG is going to occupy three blockers by himself the guards are going to get off on LB's and the LB"s are going to have to shed blocks and make plays which is not easy to do.  When you're in a two deep shell vs a QB run game you're going to get gashed by it unless you totally whip the other team up front.  So I guess our NG was an issue last night because he wasn't totally dominating the guy in front of him on every down.   But our NG's were not getting owned in this game like some have said it just didn't happen that way.  

[catzacker]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting pwn3d and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

The NG didn't get pwn3d vs. OSU that wasn't the problem.  More then anything it was the option, QB run game and the QB scrambles. Savage averged a pedrestrian 4.4 yards per carry it was Robinson that killed us.  We stayed in a 7 man front all night and a good QB run game will kill you when you do that because they can out number you at the point with the designed QB runs or they can option you to death.   It puts a ton of pressure on the LB's to make one on one open field tackles against very gifted athletes.

The coaches had the same plan in this game they had vs. CU stay in the 7 man front and let them get their yards and hope they make mistakes to kill drives or that we can stop them in the red zone.  Didn't work well last night but OSU presents so many problems and they didn't make many mistakes.  They are on a different level offensively with Robinson at QB that kids ability to run and throw to go along with the backs and WR's they have makes them damn near impossible to defend.   

We could have brought up more guys and stuck them in the box but then they would have gone over the top.  Kind of a pick your poisen kind of thing and the coaches chose to die slowly rather then die quick.  If we would have gotten a two score second half lead I think our plan would have worked but our mistakes kept us from ever doing that. 

Uh...the NT starts it all in the 3-4.  It doesn't matter if it's a Qb running or a RB running or a pass....the NT not doing his job or rather not having a NT than can do that job filters through to the entire defense.  The guards on either side can filter through to the next level on run plays, and because our defensive pressure is so predictable, the guards have no problem picking up blitzes.  Further, we are undisciplined when we blitz allowing the QB to tuck it and run. 

I wish we had Sam Adams playing the NG for us but we don't.  Even if we did it wouldn't solve all of our problems.  It wasn't really the issue last night it has been a issue for us at times but last night wasn't that style of game and OSU isn't that type of team.  I think some of you think a little too much NFL where the run game is all handoff and mainly between the tackles.  

College is so much different and there are so many more aspects to the run games.  No NG is going to occupy three blockers by himself the guards are going to get off on LB's and the LB"s are going to have to shed blocks and make plays which is not easy to do.  When you're in a two deep shell vs a QB run game you're going to get gashed by it unless you totally whip the other team up front.  So I guess our NG was an issue last night because he wasn't totally dominating the guy in front of him on every down.   But our NG's were not getting pwn3d in this game like some have said it just didn't happen that way.  

I'm not putting it entirely on just the NT, but it's a problem that filters through to the LB's and then into the secondary.  Christ, it's not rocket science...the DL (no matter what scheme) has been the problem since 2003.  And I'm not talking about the size of the NT, just his production (in terms of being able to hold his gap and force a double team, not sacks or tackles).  It's not 3 blockers, it's 2...the center and the playside guard.  And it really isn't two people, it's just the A gap on either side of the center.  Where was the 2 deep shell on those 3rd and long passes? 

[mjrod]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting pwn3d and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

The NG didn't get pwn3d vs. OSU that wasn't the problem.  More then anything it was the option, QB run game and the QB scrambles. Savage averged a pedrestrian 4.4 yards per carry it was Robinson that killed us.  We stayed in a 7 man front all night and a good QB run game will kill you when you do that because they can out number you at the point with the designed QB runs or they can option you to death.   It puts a ton of pressure on the LB's to make one on one open field tackles against very gifted athletes.

The coaches had the same plan in this game they had vs. CU stay in the 7 man front and let them get their yards and hope they make mistakes to kill drives or that we can stop them in the red zone.  Didn't work well last night but OSU presents so many problems and they didn't make many mistakes.  They are on a different level offensively with Robinson at QB that kids ability to run and throw to go along with the backs and WR's they have makes them damn near impossible to defend.   

We could have brought up more guys and stuck them in the box but then they would have gone over the top.  Kind of a pick your poisen kind of thing and the coaches chose to die slowly rather then die quick.  If we would have gotten a two score second half lead I think our plan would have worked but our mistakes kept us from ever doing that. 

Uh...the NT starts it all in the 3-4.  It doesn't matter if it's a Qb running or a RB running or a pass....the NT not doing his job or rather not having a NT than can do that job filters through to the entire defense.  The guards on either side can filter through to the next level on run plays, and because our defensive pressure is so predictable, the guards have no problem picking up blitzes.  Further, we are undisciplined when we blitz allowing the QB to tuck it and run. 

I wish we had Sam Adams playing the NG for us but we don't.  Even if we did it wouldn't solve all of our problems.  It wasn't really the issue last night it has been a issue for us at times but last night wasn't that style of game and OSU isn't that type of team.  I think some of you think a little too much NFL where the run game is all handoff and mainly between the tackles. 

College is so much different and there are so many more aspects to the run games.  No NG is going to occupy three blockers by himself the guards are going to get off on LB's and the LB"s are going to have to shed blocks and make plays which is not easy to do.  When you're in a two deep shell vs a QB run game you're going to get gashed by it unless you totally whip the other team up front.  So I guess our NG was an issue last night because he wasn't totally dominating the guy in front of him on every down.   But our NG's were not getting pwn3d in this game like some have said it just didn't happen that way. 

I'm not putting it entirely on just the NT, but it's a problem that filters through to the LB's and then into the secondary.  Chrsti, it's not rocket science...the DL (no matter what scheme) has been the problem since 2003.  And I'm not talking about the size of the NT, just his production (in terms of being able to hold his gap and force a double team, not sacks or tackles).  It's not 3 blockers, it's 2...the center and the playside guard.  And it really isn't two people, it's just the A gap on either side of the center.  Where was the 2 deep shell on those 3rd and long passes? 

Maybe you should spend more time looking at the offensive lines too before you start blaming the scheme.   You know there is a secret to beating the 3-4 that teams are using if you look closely.

[catzacker]

I don't think the problems are schematic, I just don't think we're good enough, we flat got beat.

It's both.  IMO, it all starts with the NT.  Ours is getting pwn3d and in a 3-4, at a minimum, the NT has to be able to take up the gap on either side of the center.  Ours doesn't and that defeciency just flows through to the LB's.  We need major help next year on our defensive front or it's going to be the same thing.  Atleast 2 big JC DT/NT's. 

The NG didn't get pwn3d vs. OSU that wasn't the problem.  More then anything it was the option, QB run game and the QB scrambles. Savage averged a pedrestrian 4.4 yards per carry it was Robinson that killed us.  We stayed in a 7 man front all night and a good QB run game will kill you when you do that because they can out number you at the point with the designed QB runs or they can option you to death.   It puts a ton of pressure on the LB's to make one on one open field tackles against very gifted athletes.

The coaches had the same plan in this game they had vs. CU stay in the 7 man front and let them get their yards and hope they make mistakes to kill drives or that we can stop them in the red zone.  Didn't work well last night but OSU presents so many problems and they didn't make many mistakes.  They are on a different level offensively with Robinson at QB that kids ability to run and throw to go along with the backs and WR's they have makes them damn near impossible to defend.   

We could have brought up more guys and stuck them in the box but then they would have gone over the top.  Kind of a pick your poisen kind of thing and the coaches chose to die slowly rather then die quick.  If we would have gotten a two score second half lead I think our plan would have worked but our mistakes kept us from ever doing that. 

Uh...the NT starts it all in the 3-4.  It doesn't matter if it's a Qb running or a RB running or a pass....the NT not doing his job or rather not having a NT than can do that job filters through to the entire defense.  The guards on either side can filter through to the next level on run plays, and because our defensive pressure is so predictable, the guards have no problem picking up blitzes.  Further, we are undisciplined when we blitz allowing the QB to tuck it and run. 

I wish we had Sam Adams playing the NG for us but we don't.  Even if we did it wouldn't solve all of our problems.  It wasn't really the issue last night it has been a issue for us at times but last night wasn't that style of game and OSU isn't that type of team.  I think some of you think a little too much NFL where the run game is all handoff and mainly between the tackles. 

College is so much different and there are so many more aspects to the run games.  No NG is going to occupy three blockers by himself the guards are going to get off on LB's and the LB"s are going to have to shed blocks and make plays which is not easy to do.  When you're in a two deep shell vs a QB run game you're going to get gashed by it unless you totally whip the other team up front.  So I guess our NG was an issue last night because he wasn't totally dominating the guy in front of him on every down.   But our NG's were not getting pwn3d in this game like some have said it just didn't happen that way. 

I'm not putting it entirely on just the NT, but it's a problem that filters through to the LB's and then into the secondary.  Chrsti, it's not rocket science...the DL (no matter what scheme) has been the problem since 2003.  And I'm not talking about the size of the NT, just his production (in terms of being able to hold his gap and force a double team, not sacks or tackles).  It's not 3 blockers, it's 2...the center and the playside guard.  And it really isn't two people, it's just the A gap on either side of the center.  Where was the 2 deep shell on those 3rd and long passes? 

Maybe you should spend more time looking at the offensive lines too before you start blaming the scheme.   You know there is a secret to beating the 3-4 that teams are using if you look closely.

No crap.  And that's the other half of the problem.  Our DC has his head squarely up his ass.  It's really not that difficult to run on us at all. 

                     

[DS43]

3rd down defense has been particularly frustrating this year.   We either bring the blitz and get burned, or have no pressure whatsoever and the QB just makes some BS play with all the time he has.   I do have to agree with the point that teams have pretty much figured out our googly-eyed coordinator. The Auburn game really set the expectations high but for good reason as they had to look at North Dakota State film for  'ck's sake to get an idea at what he does. 

[opcat]

D started to slide when LB Antwon Moore(spelling?)  got injured.

He could blitz and tackle.  Auburn game.

[cireksu]

Our Dline is just getting plowed by double teams and are unable to hold their ground or split them, then the olinemen are getting to the LB's.  Our Dline is in trouble.

[BigXIIpowercat]

I didn't read past the first post, and can only hope that every other post is the same as mine, but 'hatter, that was the most ridiculous comment ever. Our defense was piss poor the whole game after the first two OSU drives. They got abused consistently and thoroughly, and I knew we lost the game when we went up with 1 minute still remaining. It was that bad. Don't know how Wyatt vision made it sound, but we got pounded all game.

[GoldbrickGangBoss]

[steve dave]

excellent point Goldy

 

[GoldbrickGangBoss]

I know.

[michigancat]

was the 3rd & LONG TD passes...and that is a lot of disappointment..though Pettigrew and Bryant are going to win a lot of jump balls.

LOL at folks talking about run defense.  Have to pick your poison against an offense like that, especially in their house.  LOL when ku and Texas go to Stillwater...good luck stopping them.

Calm down about the run defense...they ran it between the 20's...but they stalled running it in the redzone.  That played out the way we wanted it to...what we didn't want to happen was the 3rd down completions for TD's.  That was the difference along w/ the redzone turnovers.  It doesn't matter how a great offense moves the ball between the 20's be it OSU running the ball or Tech passing the ball...it's when they get to the redzone. 

And when I say "pick your poison" w/ OSU.  Load up to stop the run and instead of a 10 play scoring drive they go 80 in 3 plays ala Lawrence last year.  Force them on longer drives and turnovers can happen.

Hatter, this is pretty much what I said in chat.  Prince is willing to give up relatively small chunks and make teams drive the length of the field.

[fatty fat fat]

Hatter, this is pretty much what I said in chat.  Prince is willing to give up relatively small chunks and make teams drive the length of the field.

knew you would rub that in our faces. 

[Trim]

was the 3rd & LONG TD passes...and that is a lot of disappointment..though Pettigrew and Bryant are going to win a lot of jump balls.

LOL at folks talking about run defense.  Have to pick your poison against an offense like that, especially in their house.  LOL when ku and Texas go to Stillwater...good luck stopping them.

Calm down about the run defense...they ran it between the 20's...but they stalled running it in the redzone.  That played out the way we wanted it to...what we didn't want to happen was the 3rd down completions for TD's.  That was the difference along w/ the redzone turnovers.  It doesn't matter how a great offense moves the ball between the 20's be it OSU running the ball or Tech passing the ball...it's when they get to the redzone. 

And when I say "pick your poison" w/ OSU.  Load up to stop the run and instead of a 10 play scoring drive they go 80 in 3 plays ala Lawrence last year.  Force them on longer drives and turnovers can happen.

Hatter, this is pretty much what I said in chat.  Prince is willing to give up relatively small chunks and make teams drive the length of the field.

You're both very mature.