So, which school is the first to re-introduce a power run offense

[sonofdaxjones]

with a vertical passing attack to the Big 12??

[ksuno1stunner]

with a vertical passing attack to the Big 12??

[sonofdaxjones]

with a vertical passing attack to the Big 12??

Yeah, I could see it.

[Jayhoxx]

Are you baiting me into saying that we basically did that to you in the second half Saturday?

[sonofdaxjones]

Are you baiting me into saying that we basically did that to you in the second half Saturday?

Oh yeah, that was a veritable throwback into I formation power option football. 

Who is "we" . . . were you and some of the other Phogtards playing out there??

[Jayhoxx]

If you were handicapped by having your head between your knees inthe 2nd half, just say so.

[sonofdaxjones]

If you were handicapped by having your head between your knees inthe 2nd half, just say so.

Seriously, do you always have to be such a dumbass??

[sonofdaxjones]

Just to point out more of the idiocy of Hoax's statement.  When looking at the vertical passing game component of my question and relating it too ku this last Saturday . . . ku's longest pass completion was for 30 yards on a slip/smoke/jailbreak screen play.   Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but "vertical" passing game in my book is 40-50-60 yards down the field before the receiver even touches the ball.

[ew2x4]

Also, power running game may a bit different than what I saw.

[Pontius Pearslice]

My definition of vertical passing is playing football in a grain elevator hahahahahahahaha!

[waks]

My definition of vertical passing is playing football in a grain elevator hahahahahahahaha!

Please bring back TheShocker. He was better.

[Jayhoxx]

ku's longest pass completion was for 30 yards on a slip/smoke/jailbreak screen play.

We were on the 30 yard line, numbnuts.  And the final drive consisted of a long pass to Fine and a long TD pass down the middle.  McAnderson barreling over left tackle was some nice power.

[sonofdaxjones]

Again, what part of That was ku's LONGEST PASS PLAY of the game can't you understand??

ku ran the ball effectively, but formation wise that is not the power running game I am referencing.  No if ku lined up in the I and ran lead options all day, than you might have something.   But you don't as per usual.

[michigancat]

I think it will take a LONG TIME before you see that again....it just takes too long to implement.  Snyder really never had a "power" running game until Scobey came along in 2000.  I think that's what he always wanted to do, but you can't get your team to do that overnight.  Stoops at OU is similar, but he got to a power running game with Peterson quicker than Snyder was able to (winning a national title with a spread offense makes it easier).

[sonofdaxjones]

When they lined Bishop in the shotgun and ran counter lead plays with him that was a power running game. 

[michigancat]

Still, it took him 8 years to get Michael Bishop.

[ksu_FAN]

While there was power involved, I'd consider it more of a QB read/option running game than a power running game.  IMO, true power is lining up in the I and running off tackle with a kickout by the FB and pulling a guard around to lead.  Many coaches would consider running option something you do when you cannot handle the power running game.  Snyder blended both together nicely and offset it with the vertical passing game about as well as possible when we were at our peak.

[sonofdaxjones]

True Rusty, but you can go all the way back to 1994 when they use to go jumbo and put little Rod Schiller back there and just jam it down teams throats.   When Snyder first installed the QB running game for Bishop it did have a lot of read action, but there was also usually two backs lined up with Bishop and one would lead, and they'd also run a lot of trap and counter action on the line.   Lots of teams us that read option, but it's almost strictly a true read with no lead blocking.

[Jayhoxx]

OK, Dax, I'll give you the fact that the endzone stopped our long pass plays.  Without that pesky Zero yard line Fields and Briscoe would still be running.  But we still lined up and ran the ball up the gut with McAnderson and a few big uglies leading the way.

[Skipper44]

I think  some of Barnett's CU teams were a great example of the power running game with play action vertical passing attack.  His multiple north titles despite much NFL talent  speaks to the effectiveness of the system and his coaching. 

If NU were to go in the that direction, especially with an athletic QB, I think it would give them the shortest route back to acutally "restoring the order".  They have the best  advantages in the North to recruit the type of linemen required and their stadium is the best homefield in the North.  Also, I don' t  see  MU and ku finding a texas HS system QB every few years to keep up the current success they are enjoying.

[kougar24]

True Rusty, but you can go all the way back to 1994 when they use to go jumbo and put little Rod Schiller back there and just jam it down teams throats.   When Snyder first installed the QB running game for Bishop it did have a lot of read action, but there was also usually two backs lined up with Bishop and one would lead, and they'd also run a lot of trap and counter action on the line.   Lots of teams us that read option, but it's almost strictly a true read with no lead blocking.

We were hardly known for jamming the ball down teams' throats in '94. Think 5-wide Chad May Show.

[sonofdaxjones]

OK, Dax, I'll give you the fact that the endzone stopped our long pass plays.  Without that pesky Zero yard line Fields and Briscoe would still be running.  But we still lined up and ran the ball up the gut with McAnderson and a few big uglies leading the way.

Hoax . . . seriously man, you're actually going to call a little slip/jailbreak screen pass a "vertical" passing game??   What about the statement of a receiver not actually touching the ball until they're 40-50-60 yards down the field can you not seem to understand??   Hitting the TE for 28 yards on a seam route is an intermediate passing play.  This isn't really that hard, so either you're just baiting me, or you're as dumb as dirt.  I'll go with a little bit of the former and a lot of the latter.

Kougar . . . please tell me when I said KSU was known for a power running game in 1994??

[Beer]

Dax,

Hoaxx is dumb as dirt.  That, and he just became a ku football fan in 2004.  In a thread over on phog, he stated that it was Terry Allen coaching in the 64-0 game in Lawrence.  That should tell you enough about Hoaxx's "expertise". 

[kougar24]

OK, Dax, I'll give you the fact that the endzone stopped our long pass plays.  Without that pesky Zero yard line Fields and Briscoe would still be running.  But we still lined up and ran the ball up the gut with McAnderson and a few big uglies leading the way.

Hoax . . . seriously man, you're actually going to call a little slip/jailbreak screen pass a "vertical" passing game??   What about the statement of a receiver not actually touching the ball until they're 40-50-60 yards down the field can you not seem to understand??   Hitting the TE for 28 yards on a seam route is an intermediate passing play.  This isn't really that hard, so either you're just baiting me, or you're as dumb as dirt.  I'll go with a little bit of the former and a lot of the latter.

Kougar . . . please tell me when I said KSU was known for a power running game in 1994??

Even mentioning 1994 when trying to point out a power running game is retarded.

[steve dave]

If NU were to go in the that direction, especially with an athletic QB, I think it would give them the shortest route back to acutally "restoring the order".  They have the best  advantages in the North to recruit the type of linemen required and their stadium is the best homefield in the North. 

NU will never get anywhere in college football with that buffoon Callahan running the show.  I hope they give him another contract extension next year. 

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL.   Okay, KSU was 5 wide every play the entire season, never lined up in the I formation, never ran any lead plays, never ran any option . . .  and what I should have said was 1993, because that's when Snyder would go jumbo and ram Schiller down people's throats.   JJ Smith running for 1,073 yards that season was all out of finesse formations, KSU never ran any counter leads or anything like that.

[kougar24]

LOL.   Okay, KSU was 5 wide every play the entire season, never lined up in the I formation, never ran any lead plays, never ran any option . . .  and what I should have said was 1993, because that's when Snyder would go jumbo and ram Schiller down people's throats.   JJ Smith running for 1,073 yards that season was all out of finesse formations, KSU never ran any counter leads or anything like that.

If that's your criteria (running power plays once in a while), then 90%+ of college football teams are already "re-introducing a power run offense."

[turbowildcat]

When they lined Bishop in the shotgun and ran counter lead plays with him that was a power running game. 

We should have Freeman do the same thing Bishop, did even if doesn't get the biggest yards it will open the passing game. Prince will have to learn this if he ever wants to win consistently. Agree?

[sonofdaxjones]

LOL.   Okay, KSU was 5 wide every play the entire season, never lined up in the I formation, never ran any lead plays, never ran any option . . .  and what I should have said was 1993, because that's when Snyder would go jumbo and ram Schiller down people's throats.   JJ Smith running for 1,073 yards that season was all out of finesse formations, KSU never ran any counter leads or anything like that.

If that's your criteria (running power plays once in a while), then 90%+ of college football teams are already "re-introducing a power run offense."

LOL again, that wasn't really the point.   Rusty said that KSU didn't have a power running game until Scobey, my main point was that the Running game KSU used in 97 and 98 was pretty much a power running game, and KSU used components of the power running game prior to that.  I guess things went bad here when the hawktard tried to convince me that a screen pass that just happens to go for 30 yards is a vertical passing attack.   But for you to suggest that KSU was 5 wide all the time in 1993 and 1994 is ridiculous as well.   Plus non power running teams today, don't run jumbo packages at midfield with 7 minutes left in a fairly tight game, go back and look at the 1993 OU-KSU game film and get back to me.

[kougar24]

Rusty said that KSU didn't have a power running game until Scobey

You should have agreed with him. He was right.