Snyder’s Early Sunflower Record – A Historical Perspective:

[Beer]

Bill Snyder’s first 5 years:

1989-90   1-10   lost to ku at home (16-21)

1990-91   5-6   lost to ku away (24-27)

1991-92   7-4   beat ku at home (16-12)

1992-93   5-6   lost to ku away (7-31)

1993-94   8-2-1   beat ku at home (10-9) ***This was Snyder’s “over the ku hump” game.  It wasn’t ever really close again until the 2004 season, some 10 years later.

The first five years of Bill Snyder’s time in Manhattan were vital for the success enjoyed later in his tenure.  Many people will tell you that it takes at least 5 years for a D1 head coach to get his players in the system throughout and to achieve the required depth by recruiting.  Other things were happening during this 5-year time as well.  KSU was winning more games, and fans were taking notice.  Tickets were selling and donations were coming in for facilities.  The fruits of Bill Snyder’s labor were being realized, and the future was bright.  As much as it disturbs me, we are seeing the evidence of a similar program transition in Lawrence now that Mangino has been at ku for 5 seasons and in the midst of his 6th. 

Just as the rise of the KSU program and the decline of the ku program in the 1990’s happened on Snyder’s watch, so did the decline of the KSU program and the rise of the ku program in the early 2000’s.  Ron Prince actually inherits a very similar situation in terms of the in-state college football picture.  The obvious differences being that this time around, someone actually has won at K-State.  Someone actually has recruited quality players to K-State.  We no longer want to reach territory we’ve never explored before.  We want to return to what we’ve known.  We have improved facilities to a level which we can compete and win now.  By no means do I expect to sink to the levels KSU was at prior to the arrival of Bill Snyder.  I do, however, see the years to come as a tremendous challenge for KSU football, and a different challenge than the one faced by Bill Snyder. 

Every coach in America who is trying to turn a program around is looking to the Bill Snyder blueprint.  To ignore the architect of the greatest turnaround in college football history would be downright foolish.  What Wildcat fans need to realize, however, is that KSU is no longer a turnaround project.  We need a new plan and a new vision to take us to the next level from where we are now.  Is Ron Prince the coach that will return us to the level of success achieved by Snyder in the mid to late 1990’s?  Only time will tell.  Despite the leftover (and quite possibly unrealistic) expectations from the height of the Snyder era, we need to give him that time, or we may never know.

[Legore]

Bill Snyder’s first 5 years:

1989-90   1-10   lost to ku at home (16-21)

1990-91   5-6   lost to ku away (24-27)

1991-92   7-4   beat ku at home (16-12)

1992-93   5-6   lost to ku away (7-31)

1993-94   8-2-1   beat ku at home (10-9) ***This was Snyder’s “over the ku hump” game.  It wasn’t ever really close again until the 2004 season, some 10 years later.

The first five years of Bill Snyder’s time in Manhattan were vital for the success enjoyed later in his tenure.  Many people will tell you that it takes at least 5 years for a D1 head coach to get his players in the system throughout and to achieve the required depth by recruiting.  Other things were happening during this 5-year time as well.  KSU was winning more games, and fans were taking notice.  Tickets were selling and donations were coming in for facilities.  The fruits of Bill Snyder’s labor were being realized, and the future was bright.  As much as it disturbs me, we are seeing the evidence of a similar program transition in Lawrence now that Mangino has been at ku for 5 seasons and in the midst of his 6th. 

Just as the rise of the KSU program and the decline of the ku program in the 1990’s happened on Snyder’s watch, so did the decline of the KSU program and the rise of the ku program in the early 2000’s.  Ron Prince actually inherits a very similar situation in terms of the in-state college football picture.  The obvious differences being that this time around, someone actually has won at K-State.  Someone actually has recruited quality players to K-State.  We no longer want to reach territory we’ve never explored before.  We want to return to what we’ve known.  We have improved facilities to a level which we can compete and win now.  By no means do I expect to sink to the levels KSU was at prior to the arrival of Bill Snyder.  I do, however, see the years to come as a tremendous challenge for KSU football, and a different challenge than the one faced by Bill Snyder. 

Every coach in America who is trying to turn a program around is looking to the Bill Snyder blueprint.  To ignore the architect of the greatest turnaround in college football history would be downright foolish.  What Wildcat fans need to realize, however, is that KSU is no longer a turnaround project.  We need a new plan and a new vision to take us to the next level from where we are now.  Is Ron Prince the coach that will return us to the level of success achieved by Snyder in the mid to late 1990’s?  Only time will tell.  Despite the leftover (and quite possibly unrealistic) expectations from the height of the Snyder era, we need to give him that time, or we may never know.

so are you saying Mangino is over the hump now and about to reel off 10 straight against us? 

[SUPERKSUFAN]

Bill Snyder’s first 5 years:

1989-90   1-10   lost to ku at home (16-21)

1990-91   5-6   lost to ku away (24-27)

1991-92   7-4   beat ku at home (16-12)

1992-93   5-6   lost to ku away (7-31)

1993-94   8-2-1   beat ku at home (10-9) ***This was Snyder’s “over the ku hump” game.  It wasn’t ever really close again until the 2004 season, some 10 years later.

The first five years of Bill Snyder’s time in Manhattan were vital for the success enjoyed later in his tenure.  Many people will tell you that it takes at least 5 years for a D1 head coach to get his players in the system throughout and to achieve the required depth by recruiting.  Other things were happening during this 5-year time as well.  KSU was winning more games, and fans were taking notice.  Tickets were selling and donations were coming in for facilities.  The fruits of Bill Snyder’s labor were being realized, and the future was bright.  As much as it disturbs me, we are seeing the evidence of a similar program transition in Lawrence now that Mangino has been at ku for 5 seasons and in the midst of his 6th. 

Just as the rise of the KSU program and the decline of the ku program in the 1990’s happened on Snyder’s watch, so did the decline of the KSU program and the rise of the ku program in the early 2000’s.  Ron Prince actually inherits a very similar situation in terms of the in-state college football picture.  The obvious differences being that this time around, someone actually has won at K-State.  Someone actually has recruited quality players to K-State.  We no longer want to reach territory we’ve never explored before.  We want to return to what we’ve known.  We have improved facilities to a level which we can compete and win now.  By no means do I expect to sink to the levels KSU was at prior to the arrival of Bill Snyder.  I do, however, see the years to come as a tremendous challenge for KSU football, and a different challenge than the one faced by Bill Snyder. 

Every coach in America who is trying to turn a program around is looking to the Bill Snyder blueprint.  To ignore the architect of the greatest turnaround in college football history would be downright foolish.  What Wildcat fans need to realize, however, is that KSU is no longer a turnaround project.  We need a new plan and a new vision to take us to the next level from where we are now.  Is Ron Prince the coach that will return us to the level of success achieved by Snyder in the mid to late 1990’s?  Only time will tell.  Despite the leftover (and quite possibly unrealistic) expectations from the height of the Snyder era, we need to give him that time, or we may never know.

so are you saying Mangino is over the hump now and about to reel off 10 straight against us? 

 

[dr00d]

I say we fire prince when he goes 10-2!  That will make a pretty big statement about our club.

[kcncat]

Do you think Mangino will be alive in 10 years?

[The Minister]

A very good retrospective, Mr. Beer.

However, I think the future for both KSU and ku lies somewhere in between the fate of both programs from 1990-2005.  Neither coach is likely to be Bill Snyder, and neither coach is likely to be Terry Allen, honestly.  If the premise is really true concerning coaches needing a critical number of years at a school to get "their" players, then the Big XII north should look like this:

MU > ku > NU > KSU = CU > ISU

Really, that's pretty close, though its eminently possible that NU should be equal to or slid beneath KSU and CU based on the results so far this year. 

I think the interesting question going forward will be: who will truly be the next Bill Snyder of offense/defense in the north?  That is, who will be a pioneer and do something that no one else in the division (or CFB) is really doing and get an edge?  Snyder went to the 15-yard out as the base of his offense when the conference was still three yards, a pitch, and then a cloud of dust.  Then, he was the innovator of the running QB/hybrid offense.  Right now MU & ku have gone all Abercrombie and Fitch on the Big 12 north, running the vogue spread.  KSU and NU (and CU to some extent) are currently pretty traditional with trying to be balanced (though they all rely on the pass more right now than they would like).  ISU just turns it over.

Prince may be "bold & daring", but I would sure like to see a wrinkle in the KSU version of the WCO to make KSU just a little different.  Tech uses the spread, but it's a ridiculous mutant version and it works.  What will Prince (or Mangino, for that matter) do to make the offense unique and tougher to prepare for?  That, I think, will determine what dictates the success of the football programs in the state of KS in the near future.

[fatty fat fat]

Irrelevant post. That was 20 years ago. Stop obsessing about ku, it's over.

[KSUTOMMY]

Fatty go make a video or something -

One thing that has bothered me just a little bit, but was eased by the success last year was that seemingly all of the coaches have come from excellent coaching pedigrees. Fat man - OU/KSU, Chizik came from UT, Hawkins from Boise State, Calafraud came from the NFL/Superbowl with the Raiders, Pinkel head coach at Toledo where he had some success. Ron Prince - Offensive Coordinator for one year under Al Groh. Say what you want, but I haven't seen the University of Virginia as world beaters any time lately. Yeah yeah yeah D'Brickashaw Ferguson et al, but really did Weiser get a little too wild with his going pot luck here? I dont know. I do feel somewhat comforted with another win over UT, but then there are the losses to Baylor last year and ku this year... I am about 70/30 still on board with Prince, but last year I was about 90-10 after the year/bowl game was over - looking forward to getting back on track. I am just a little uneasy, still on board, but uneasy.

[wildcatpride]

Agreed.  Unforturnetly, the K-State ku game from here on out will probably be a good one.  Long lost are the days of scoffing at ku football because we knew we would crush them, but overall I think that we will still be the more dominant team.  Ultimately, just to sum up what you guys have been saying, it's not time to jump ship.  Snyder's turnaround and Prince's good first year I think have us a little overly aggressive with where we think we should be.  Right now, everyone on that team is inconsistent (except Jordy and Ian) including the coaching staff and it will take some time for our coaches, let alone our players, to settle in.  Not to mention, everyone has a bad year.  Look at Michigan and the Big 10 in general.