We are what we are...

[ksu_FAN]

First on the vertical passing game; folks we've got to face the facts on this, its simply not there. We are getting 2 deep (or quarters) coverage nearly every snap and teams are going to make us beat them throwing the ball underneath or by running it. We couldn't do it enought today to win, but it does no good to throw vertical routes when you know a safety is back there to pick it. Look, after the UT game last year, everyone has employed a similar gameplan against us, until we get it solved we are going to see the same gameplan every week. Right now we are not a team that is going to put together 3 or more drives per game and unfortunately we aren't going to have more than 1 or 2 gamebreakers either. There are simply too many holes right now for this offense to be explosive.

This all starts with facing the fact that we have a ways to go on the offensive line. B/c of getting plays on defense in the special teams we've been able to mask it by running many routes with only 3 or even 2 recievers out on routes with max protection. ku did a lot to expose that this week after UT did some last week. I do believe it is improved over last year, but this oline is still a work in progress and that should be expected with 2 OTs that were playing JUCO ball last year.

Prince's choice is simple this year, use a pretty conservative offensive approach (to mask an average offensive line) with solid defensive play and explosive special teams. We got nothing from our special teams today (even left 3 points on the field) and our defense struggled and didn't make a ton or plays to set up to offense. If we don't get set up for 14 or more points by our defense and special teams on a regular basis we are going to struggle just like we saw today. This is simply who we are right now.

[WildCatzPhreak]

I'm sick of the offensive line being an excuse.  Having to use max protection is limiting our offense.  We need to get it fixed.

[ksu_FAN]

I'm sick of the offensive line being an excuse.  Having to use max protection is limiting our offense.  We need to get it fixed.

I agree, but I'm not trying to use it as an excuse.  Its what we have.  When you bring in 2 JUCO OTs its usually not a good sign.  It must get better this year for us to win more than 6 games.

[WildCatzPhreak]

I wasn't suggesting you were using it as an excuse, I'm just sick of it being bad.  It's better than it has been, but not where it needs to be.  Even with max protection the defense was splitting defenders.  Seems like they're either not giving 100% effort or they're not as strong as they need to be.  Both of which could be corrected.

[ksu_FAN]

Oh, and another thing.  We've got to be honest about or WRs.  Outside of Jordy we really aren't very good.  Murphy isn't horrible, but like most first year JUCO guys he's not going to be consistent.  After that Gonzales is our best guy which isn't a good thing.  Brown and Pierce have a ways to go.  And as much as some around here like to rag on him, we could use Norwood at TE. 

[ksu_FAN]

And it will really stink if Bedore is going to be out for an extended period of time.  Losing your best OL and the "QB of the group" right as Big 12 play gets started would not be good.  Notice how much our production went down when Bedore went out?  He's a good one.*

*I know this can be interpreted as a big time excuse, but losing the best player on your oline is never good, especially when he's responsible for the line calls.  I think Viers has a bright future, but he's a young pup.

[michigancat]

Only real surprise of the game was our D vs. their O.

[ksu_FAN]

Only real surprise of the game was our D vs. their O.

QFT. 

And really nothing form special teams.  I thought we'd at least get a decent return.  Of course, we couldn't take advantage of starting near midfield in the 1st quarter anyway.

[WildCatzPhreak]

We knew Smoke would mess up, the poor guy is clueless.  But wtf was wrong with Reggie Walker?  The guy is usually amazing and he missed tackle after tackle after tackle.

Mangino did a good job of taking our special teams away from us.  He either made sure it was going through the endzone, was going away from the returners, or going to be a fair catch.

[Super PurpleCat]

We knew Smoke would mess up, the poor guy is clueless.  But wtf was wrong with Reggie Walker?  The guy is usually amazing and he missed tackle after tackle after tackle.

Mangino did a good job of taking our special teams away from us.  He either made sure it was going through the endzone, was going away from the returners, or going to be a fair catch.

He watched game film and made adjustments.  I don't know why some coaches can't figure this part out.

[michigancat]

Only real surprise of the game was our D vs. their O.

QFT. 

And really nothing form special teams.  I thought we'd at least get a decent return.  Of course, we couldn't take advantage of starting near midfield in the 1st quarter anyway.

The reason for no big returns

A) We couldn't make them punt in the second half.
B) When we made them punt in the first half, they were horrible punts, so it didn't really matter.


p.s.  I called that we would need some vertical game somewhere this week.

[WildCatzPhreak]

Only real surprise of the game was our D vs. their O.

QFT. 

And really nothing form special teams.  I thought we'd at least get a decent return.  Of course, we couldn't take advantage of starting near midfield in the 1st quarter anyway.

The reason for no big returns

A) We couldn't make them punt in the second half.
B) When we made them punt in the first half, they were horrible punts, so it didn't really matter.


p.s.  I called that we would need some vertical game somewhere this week.

Didn't you tell me throwing deep against Talib was a bad idea?

[michigancat]

link?

[ksu_FAN]

I'd like to see us throw deep as well, but we've either got to force defenses to give us a shot (put 8 in the box, get a coverage we like) or get better protection b/c its easy to cover deep routes when only 2 or 3 recievers are out there.  UT was arrogant enough last year to play us man across, often with no saftey help, and we got them with Figurs.  Since, we haven't got anything close to those match-ups.  

As for special teams, I was glad we finally put only Murphy back and went for the block.  IMO, that should've been what we did on the first punt or 2, then try to set up the 2 return after getting after the punter a bit.  

[WildCatzPhreak]

link?

My bad, it was "kuSucks."  Thought it was you for some reason.

[michigancat]

Oh, he's kind of an idiot.

[WildCatzPhreak]

I wish we had an offense outside of Jordy.  I don't really give a &@#% what it is, trick plays, deep bombs, power running, anything.  I'm not picky.  Just pick up yards.

[ksu_FAN]

I wish we had an offense outside of Jordy.  I don't really give a frack what it is, trick plays, deep bombs, power running, anything.  I'm not picky.  Just pick up yards.

I could go for giving the ball to Johnson more than 11 times.  And less to Patton.

[fatty fat fat]

We ran the ball better last year.

[catdude33]

I used to complain that Snyder ran the ball too much, and was too conservative.  Now I would kill to run the ball down opponents throats until they could stop us.

My favorite years were the Jonathan Beasley years.  We would run it down people's throats until they committed to stopping it and then we would throw it deep.  So much fun.

[Legore]

I think we can still get a running game going I know it sucked today but I don't think it's a lost cause.   Now if Bedore is out for awhile I might change my opnion on that but we ran the ball on Texas when we tried.

The thing is people won't play us man with no one deep help until we force them to do that by running the ball.  If you can run the ball at people then they have to bring up their safety's to stop it and then you can stretch the field.  It was the exact same thing ku did to us today run the ball at us until we brought up safety's then beat us over the top.  It's right out of Bill Snyder's play book force them to put 8 in the box then attack down field.  

Did you hear Prince's press conference?  Basically said they were looking for the Jordy vs. Talib match up all day but only got it that one time. Said ku avoided matching Talib up on Jordy without help.  Jordy will beat just about any college corner in man without help and other teams know it.  Mangino said after the game he is one of the 5 best WR's to play in the big 12 since the conference was formed.  That might be an over statement but the kid is good and every team we play is going to game plan not to let him get deep.  

[McGrowlTowelZac]

We aren't even halfway through the season yet.  Let's hope the team can learn from this and make some improvement as the year goes.  We can still grow, the oline can get better.  As well as other guys, murphy, patterson, pierce, brown, freeman and others.  There is still a lot of young talent on this team, that is still trying to get better. 

We were what, 4-4 in the Big 12 last year and just missed out on winning the north, there is alot of football to be played.  Who knows what can happen.

They need to correct errors, move on, and get ready for Colorado.

I want to win on ESPN this time, I want 4-2!

Let's go Cats!

[WILDCAT NATION]

I wish we had an offense outside of Jordy.  I don't really give a frack what it is, trick plays, deep bombs, power running, anything.  I'm not picky.  Just pick up yards.

I could go for giving the ball to Johnson more than 11 times.  And less to Patton.

Well, now....FAN, why in the world would you want to run the ball when you can throw a 3 yard out from the far hash?  


What I'm interested in is WHY the OL still sucks.


Losing Bedore is a killer...hope he comes back soon.

What is the deal with the big JC receiver they brought in?

Oh, and Justin Thornton, the kid that made the big play for ku toward the end of the game...He's a kid from St. Joe that KSU didn't even look at.
We could probably use him about now...

[catzacker]

Only real surprise of the game was our D vs. their O.

Tibs got mind f**ked the likes of which I have not seen since Phil Bennett. 

BTW, this game reminded me of KSU vs.OU in '00 in Manhattan (except we aren't as good as that KSU team and I don't think ku is as good as that OU team, ironically, Mangino was the OC of that OU team, IIRC). 

[WILDCAT NATION]

Bennett would not have CONTINUED to give a 10 yard cushion all damned day...I can guarantee you that....damn that was pissin' me off.

[Racquetball_Ninja]

I'm sick of the offensive line being an excuse.  Having to use max protection is limiting our offense.  We need to get it fixed.

Fixed?  That's a two if not three year process.  We might as well start recruiting nothing but Jucos for linemen.  Again... Prince doesn't want the big massive lineman... of course that's the same line that we used to win with.

We are a f*cking gimmick team.

[cireksu]

Our Dline got owned, we had to bring the run blitz off the outside to help out.  We picked our poison and reesing made the right reads and throws when it counted.

[WILDCAT NATION]

Well, the read wasn't real tough...we were sneakin' up the DB's to run support damn near every play, leaving safeties covering their inside receivers and leaving a 10-15 yard cushion...that ain't hard to beat at all.

I've come to accept that the offense will only muster about 14-20 points on their own...what I can't accept is sucking on Defense, particularly tackling.

Sorry, but if your OL isn't suited for what you'd LIKE to do, you adjust to do what your limitations ALLOW you to do...

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not seeing that adjustment being made.  If we only have 2 decent receivers...why play 3 and 4?  Bring in a FB and run the damned ball.

[cireksu]

We did not adjust on either side of the ball in this game.
 

The only adjustment I saw was running the ball in the second quarter which was somewhat successful but losing bedore screwed that up.