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Author Topic: Observations from rewatching the Texas game tonight.  (Read 1036 times)

October 02, 2007, 11:21:58 PM
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Dan Rydell

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Downfield throws.

I counted three of ~20+ yards:

#1:  Gonzalez caught fade out of bounds.
#2:  Thrown to Gonzalez on sideline go route, he might have been held.
#3:  Overthrow on fade route to Gonzalez.

Interesting that Gonzalez was the target on all the deep balls.  Meaningful, or just a small sample size?  Also, no deep balls down the middle.

Trick plays.

Jordy again appeared to show good decision making in pulling it down on the WR pass and running for 2 yards.  Flea flicker didn't work.  Lining Johnson up at QB worked really well.  Texas was obviously prepared for the pass plays.  However, I think we're still going to catch some teams napping with some trick plays.  The thing here is that we're so disciplined in running them, is that we minimize the risk of them turning disastrous through a fumble or INT.

I'm also glad that Texas ran a few trick plays and formations.  Mangino likes to pull those out, so hopefully that helps keep us on our toes.

Drops.

I counted three.  One each for Murphy, Jordy, and Johnson.  Johnson's may have gone for a TD.

Bad throws.

Only a couple that jumped out.  Badly overthrew Jordy on a screen on 4th and 1 in first half that may have turned into a TD, and definitely would have gotten a first down.  Overthrew a bubble screen that may have gotten 5+ yards.

Game management.

Freeman may not have thrown bombs, but he had a heckuva game.  He did everything he was asked to do, and did it well 95% of the time.  Protected the ball and made a bunch of completions...many of which were more difficult than they may appear. 

Discipline.

One false start penalty on the road in front of 80,000.  Especially impressive because of the shifting involved in many of the plays.  Not only do the guys shifting have to do it right, but the line has to be patient while they shift.  Watching the offense execute from huddle to snap was actually one of the more impressive things to me about this game. 

Running game.

Deceptively quiet.  Got a bunch of nice runs, and got short yardage on 3rd and short as needed.  Probably could have relied on the run more...although success was partly due to the success of the passing game.  Johnson is going to blow up in a couple of Big XII games.

McKinney

Yes, he had some nice passes defended and interception/near interceptions.  He also:

a)  Started slowing up when covering Quan Cosby when McCoy rolled out across the field, letting Cosby get open in the end zone for the first Texas touchdown.  He does that next week, and Reesing is gonna burn us.

b)  Got beat on a big play on Texas' last touchdown drive when the WR just went over him.  He reminds me of ol' Mighty Mouse for the Chiefs.  He makes some plays that are impressive, especially due to his size, but the other guys keep picking on him knowing that eventually they're gonna burn him.  His INT came on a badly underthrown ball by McCoy.

ku is going to pick on McKinney.  Let's hope Reesing underthrows it, too.

ku's going to make us look bad if they...

Get Reesing out of the pocket.  He's got the ability to make plays on the move, and this is where most of Texas' big plays came...when McCoy was scrambling.  We've gotta be careful to play sound assignments.  Get too eager to come up and stop Reesing, and he's gonna throw downfield.  Forget to spy him, and he's gonna run for yardage. 

ku has some potential to make some big plays here.  Let's hope we make some adjustments on D.

We're going to make ku look bad when we...

I may be crazy, but I think we try early to establish the ground game against ku.  Even though we were having some success against Texas, we never started relying on it.  I think part of our Texas gamecalling was to set ku up to emphasize defending those short outside passes, and I think we're gonna try to establish a running game between the tackles.  Given how Johnson was running and how the o-line was blocking, I think it might just work.  If we get the running game going, then we start running play action off of it.

October 02, 2007, 11:42:42 PM
Reply #1

yosh

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Good stuff.  I don't think your crazy about your ku thoughts either.  Wouldn't suprise me to see us run more.  I think we may see more of the two back set w/ Patton and Johnson.
Cada hombre un gato salvaje!

October 02, 2007, 11:57:24 PM
Reply #2

Pittcat

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Good stuff.  I don't think your crazy about your ku thoughts either.  Wouldn't suprise me to see us run more.  I think we may see more of the two back set w/ Patton and Johnson.

Damn right.  Direct snap, for six!!

October 03, 2007, 12:14:35 AM
Reply #3

ChicagoCat

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I'm not too worried about reesing scrambling.  Colt's TD was a pass into decent double coverage, by no means a throw that is going to be made a majority of the time.  He had another one that he did find a fairly open guy on, but for sitting in coverage as long as they did when he scrambled, we did alright.

October 03, 2007, 01:21:14 AM
Reply #4

AzCat

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I may be crazy, but I think we try early to establish the ground game against ku.  Even though we were having some success against Texas, we never started relying on it.  I think part of our Texas gamecalling was to set ku up to emphasize defending those short outside passes, and I think we're gonna try to establish a running game between the tackles.  Given how Johnson was running and how the o-line was blocking, I think it might just work.  If we get the running game going, then we start running play action off of it.

That's not crazy at all. As the announcers in the UT game noted: UT avoided being burned by the trickery because their DBs stayed back on what appeared to be running plays and/or dumps into the flat.  You can do that if you have the hosses up front to slow down a running game.  Texas had 'em, ku does not.  Establish a running game and we'll see some of those HB / WR passes going downfield in addition to the more garden variety play action stuff. 
Ladies & gentlemen, I present: The Problem

October 03, 2007, 08:32:04 AM
Reply #5

ksu_FAN

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Great post baggy. 

ku is not a bad team, but certainly they are a bit inflated by playing a horrible OOC.  I'm not expecting some 30 point smothering.  However, K-State has a lot of things going for it and I think the key issue you pointed out is important, we have to contain Reesing and make him throw from the pocket.  ku will make some attempts to attack McKinney, but I don't see recievers on their roster that equal what we saw at UT. 

I have to laugh at the expectation many ku fans seem to have that Freeman will repeat his performance from last year.  He has shown nothing even close to the issues he had and has played in two very tough venues already this season.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting some perfect game from Freeman, but the fact is he is a much better game manager and he will not repeat the 6 TO disaster of last year.  However, I don't expect a performance from ku's QB as miserable as what Meier showed last year either.

I agree that a running game will be key.  We are a much better running team this year, and our Oline has proven to be improved in both run blocking and pass protection.  Plus, we have some wrinkles we didn't have last year.  And essentually much of our short passing game is like a running game anyway.


October 03, 2007, 08:35:06 AM
Reply #6

sonofdaxjones

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Jordy had a purple escort for 6 if Freeman get's the ball down on that little slip/smoke screen pass there in the 1st half, great call, poorly executed by Freeman, one of Freeman's few mistakes in that game.


October 03, 2007, 08:50:07 AM
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Cosby catches that pass even in McKinney is on him.  It would have been 2 feet over McKinney's head.

October 03, 2007, 08:50:58 AM
Reply #8

MOKSUAZ

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i miss the pump fake, which, could be huge in this game since they'll be keying in on Jordy and Deon for the short 5-10 yard outs.  fake it to them short and burn 'em deep.

October 03, 2007, 09:06:55 AM
Reply #9

michigancat

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i miss the pump fake, which, could be huge in this game since they'll be keying in on Jordy and Deon for the short 5-10 yard outs.  fake it to them short and burn 'em deep.

It's there, just not used much.  I know they used it against Auburn where they did a pump fake than mid-range throw to the hole in the zone.  I remember it looked different because you usually see teams try to go deep in that situation, and this one was about 13 yards downfield.

Also, those 6 yard "short" passes to Jordy we ran on about every first down was similar to establishing a running game, only it was probably more effective.

October 03, 2007, 09:15:25 AM
Reply #10

Legore

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You're being too harsh on Mckinney.  The kids on the other side were great athletes sometimes they just make plays.  

I don't think you'll see ku try and pick on Mckinney he can be had but he's far from a weak spot.  Outside the penalties he's been our best corner this year.  There is a reason why there is competition to start opposite him between Garvin, Cheatam, and Baldwin but Mckinney has been pretty much set in stone as the starter since day 1.  

October 03, 2007, 09:15:50 AM
Reply #11

WorldWideBalla21

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i miss the pump fake, which, could be huge in this game since they'll be keying in on Jordy and Deon for the short 5-10 yard outs.  fake it to them short and burn 'em deep.

It's there, just not used much.  I know they used it against Auburn where they did a pump fake than mid-range throw to the hole in the zone.  I remember it looked different because you usually see teams try to go deep in that situation, and this one was about 13 yards downfield.

Also, those 6 yard "short" passes to Jordy we ran on about every first down was similar to establishing a running game, only it was probably more effective.

agreed. It basically has been our running game, and until someone stops it I don't see whats wrong w/ it.

October 03, 2007, 09:17:44 AM
Reply #12

kougar24

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Jordy had a purple escort for 6 if Freeman get's the ball down on that little slip/smoke screen pass there in the 1st half, great call, poorly executed by Freeman, one of Freeman's few mistakes in that game.



Jordy was also about 6 inches away from taking his completed slip screen all the way on the first drive of the game. It didn't matter because we scored anyway, but Jordy has some superb vision in traffic.

October 03, 2007, 09:19:12 AM
Reply #13

WorldWideBalla21

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You're being too harsh on Mckinney.  The kids on the other side were great athletes sometimes they just make plays. 

I don't think you'll see ku try and pick on Mckinney he can be had but he's far from a weak spot.  Outside the penalties he's been our best corner this year.  There is a reason why there is competition to start opposite him between Garvin, Cheatam, and Baldwin but Mckinney has been pretty much set in stone as the starter since day 1. 


McKinney got burnt twice against Texas, but I'll give him credit for recovering and making plays. One of the balls was badly under thrown and would have been an easy TD for UT. He did have a nice pic though. Oh and I noticed that he let up on that TD pass to Cozby, not sure what the hell that was about. Overall great game for McKinney but he still makes me nervous.

October 03, 2007, 09:20:05 AM
Reply #14

michigancat

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A couple things I haven't seen commented on:

The Prince staredown towards Freeman after the timeout in the red zone.  (YT, please!)

Prince chewing Freeman's ass after a failed 3rd down conversion or something (YT, please!)

October 03, 2007, 09:26:21 AM
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waks

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A couple things I haven't seen commented on:

The Prince staredown towards Freeman after the timeout in the red zone.  (YT, please!)

Prince chewing Freeman's ass after a failed 3rd down conversion or something (YT, please!)
Not true. Prince coddles Freeman.

October 03, 2007, 09:28:17 AM
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pufizzle

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A couple things I haven't seen commented on:

The Prince staredown towards Freeman after the timeout in the red zone.  (YT, please!)

Prince chewing Freeman's ass after a failed 3rd down conversion or something (YT, please!)

Ya Prince's staredown was downright frightening.  It was like he was staring into Josh's soul.  Which brings me to this question.......

Who had the scarier staredown?  Prince or Snyder?  :ohno:

October 03, 2007, 09:31:18 AM
Reply #17

kougar24

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A couple things I haven't seen commented on:

The Prince staredown towards Freeman after the timeout in the red zone.  (YT, please!)

Prince chewing Freeman's ass after a failed 3rd down conversion or something (YT, please!)

"Chewing out your QB up by 20...that's called coaching!"

The announcers loved that.

October 03, 2007, 09:35:11 AM
Reply #18

yosh

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There is a reason why there is competition to start opposite him between Garvin, Cheatam, and Baldwin but Mckinney has been pretty much set in stone as the starter since day 1.  


Yes and that reason is injury/academics.  McKinney is pretty good, but the only reason he has started everygame is because of J. Moore's grades and injuries to Baldwin and Cheatam.  Going into the Auburn game Moore and Cheatam were the starters.  I'm not trying to knock McKinney in the slightest, but he's started everygame basically by default not because he has separated himself as being better than those other guys.  We are blessed with great depth at corner.
Cada hombre un gato salvaje!

October 03, 2007, 09:38:04 AM
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WorldWideBalla21

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There is a reason why there is competition to start opposite him between Garvin, Cheatam, and Baldwin but Mckinney has been pretty much set in stone as the starter since day 1. 


Yes and that reason is injury/academics.  McKinney is pretty good, but the only reason he has started everygame is because of J. Moore's grades and injuries to Baldwin and Cheatam.  Going into the Auburn game Moore and Cheatam were the starters.  I'm not trying to knock McKinney in the slightest, but he's started everygame basically by default not because he has separated himself as being better than those other guys.  We are blessed with great depth at corner.


QFT, lol imagine if Talib went down, do they have another CB on the depth chart?

October 03, 2007, 09:41:11 AM
Reply #20

ksu_FAN

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i miss the pump fake, which, could be huge in this game since they'll be keying in on Jordy and Deon for the short 5-10 yard outs.  fake it to them short and burn 'em deep.

It's there, just not used much.  I know they used it against Auburn where they did a pump fake than mid-range throw to the hole in the zone.  I remember it looked different because you usually see teams try to go deep in that situation, and this one was about 13 yards downfield.

This is another reason we have to be able to run the ball.  The pump fake is great to use when you get isolated man coverage against undisciplined CBs, or against a zone when you can get just 1 free.  Most teams are able to play 2 deep against us (usually zone) which eliminates the deeper throws and the effectivness of pump fakes.  Right now teams are committing only 7 to the box to try and take away our controlled passing game.  This is helping us in the run game and we probably need to use it a bit more.  The 2 back sets allow for the swing pass, and if you noticed against UT we were getting a OT and sometimes an OT and OG out to the edge to block those, so those are essentually a version of a toss sweep, even though they are pass plays.  

Also, if we can protect I expect to see more of the long crossing routes that we used vs Auburn.  Our past three opponents have given us the quick throws to the flats where Jordy can make plays, but like last year ku will probably try to take that away, but still will play a lot of zone.  So if you can protect, you run him across the field and flood zones against that press cover 2 look and find openings like we did vs AU.  Then the chess match will be whether or not ku can stop that by rushing 4, or if they'll bring blitzes like last year.  If they do, that will open up some other things for us if we pick up their blitzes.  

Granted, I wish we were still in the days that ku was inept and we'd drill them by 30.  However, it is interesting to go into this game with something on the line and actually having to look at match-ups.  Then again, this is not USC coming in; its not like its going to take some perfect game at home to beat ku.  But we do have to take advantage of what ku will give and the negative plays that happen (and they will) cannot turn the field position over, take away points, or lead to easy points like last year.  If we manage the game like we did at AU and UT offensively and get solid play from defense and special teams I completely believe we win this game by 10+.  Its not going to take some perfect game, but we can't give the Hawks anything b/c they will take advantage.  Should be a fun one to watch.

October 03, 2007, 10:10:26 AM
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Legore

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You're being too harsh on Mckinney.  The kids on the other side were great athletes sometimes they just make plays. 

I don't think you'll see ku try and pick on Mckinney he can be had but he's far from a weak spot.  Outside the penalties he's been our best corner this year.  There is a reason why there is competition to start opposite him between Garvin, Cheatam, and Baldwin but Mckinney has been pretty much set in stone as the starter since day 1. 


McKinney got burnt twice against Texas, but I'll give him credit for recovering and making plays. One of the balls was badly under thrown and would have been an easy TD for UT. He did have a nice pic though. Oh and I noticed that he let up on that TD pass to Cozby, not sure what the hell that was about. Overall great game for McKinney but he still makes me nervous.

TD pass to Cosby was a play Carney should have made.  Mckinney was to have help to the inside and Carney was there but didn't make the play.  If Watts is in the game I think he makes that play.

After watching the game Petro on 810 said Mckinney was the most impressive player on our defense and that he'll play in the NFL.  K-State fans are just biased against him and nit pick his every move because of some of the dumb plays he's made in the past.  Texas has about 3 WR's that will play in the NFL and a couple of times McCoy broke contain and had all day to throw.  When that happens few corners are going to be able to cover guys with that kind of talent for that length of time.

October 03, 2007, 10:21:15 AM
Reply #22

WorldWideBalla21

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You're being too harsh on Mckinney.  The kids on the other side were great athletes sometimes they just make plays. 

I don't think you'll see ku try and pick on Mckinney he can be had but he's far from a weak spot.  Outside the penalties he's been our best corner this year.  There is a reason why there is competition to start opposite him between Garvin, Cheatam, and Baldwin but Mckinney has been pretty much set in stone as the starter since day 1. 


McKinney got burnt twice against Texas, but I'll give him credit for recovering and making plays. One of the balls was badly under thrown and would have been an easy TD for UT. He did have a nice pic though. Oh and I noticed that he let up on that TD pass to Cozby, not sure what the hell that was about. Overall great game for McKinney but he still makes me nervous.

TD pass to Cosby was a play Carney should have made.  Mckinney was to have help to the inside and Carney was there but didn't make the play.  If Watts is in the game I think he makes that play.

After watching the game Petro on 810 said Mckinney was the most impressive player on our defense and that he'll play in the NFL.  K-State fans are just biased against him and nit pick his every move because of some of the dumb plays he's made in the past.  Texas has about 3 WR's that will play in the NFL and a couple of times McCoy broke contain and had all day to throw.  When that happens few corners are going to be able to cover guys with that kind of talent for that length of time.


I think McKinney has NFL talent and I think he has the potential to be great. He still makes me nervous though w/ all his bonehead penalties and last year he always got burnt. This year he is playing a hell of a lot better and is starting to play up to his potential. He has freaky athleticism. If he plays the rest of the year like he did against Texas...  :ksu:

October 03, 2007, 10:31:24 AM
Reply #23

kougar24

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Quote from: WorldWideBalla21 link=topic=16866.msg213413#msg213413
I think McKinney has NFL talent

Let's not get carried away.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2007, 10:39:05 AM by kougar24 »

October 03, 2007, 10:35:40 AM
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WorldWideBalla21

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Quote from: WorldWideBalla21 link=topic=16866.msg213413#msg213413
I think McKinney has NFL talent
[/quote

Let's not get carried away.

He does have NFL talent, not saying he has Day 1 talent. &@#%ing Archer had NFL talent. I don't think he'll make it in the NFL just saying he has the talent. I've seen publications that have him getting drafted, it's not really a stretch.

October 03, 2007, 10:40:32 AM
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kougar24

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McKinney is quite possibly the 5th best corner on this team (although regarding Moore, we may never know  :-[ ).

I would take Garvin, Baldwin, and Cheatam over him for sure.

October 03, 2007, 10:46:04 AM
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WorldWideBalla21

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McKinney is quite possibly the 5th best corner on this team (although regarding Moore, we may never know  :-[ ).

I would take Garvin, Baldwin, and Cheatam over him for sure.

I'm just saying, based on his speed and athleticism and aggressiveness that an NFL team will take a chance w/ him. I agree though, as far as an overall corner I think he's the 3rd best on the team, but the NFL is all about athleticism and potential. You can see when McKinney plays that he is a great athlete, he just doesn't always play the postition the right way but NFL scouts don't watch every K-State game and see what we see. That Texas game definitely helped his NFL chances.

October 03, 2007, 02:31:40 PM
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McKinney is quite possibly the 5th best corner on this team (although regarding Moore, we may never know  :-[ ).

I would take Garvin, Baldwin, and Cheatam over him for sure.

I'm just saying, based on his speed and athleticism and aggressiveness that an NFL team will take a chance w/ him. I agree though, as far as an overall corner I think he's the 3rd best on the team, but the NFL is all about athleticism and potential. You can see when McKinney plays that he is a great athlete, he just doesn't always play the postition the right way but NFL scouts don't watch every K-State game and see what we see. That Texas game definitely helped his NFL chances.

Demarcus Faggins?