RP > BS

[KSUTOMMY]

BTW, can we all agree that this smackdown in Austin is about 5 billion times bigger than last time in Austin?

[willie83]

KSU under Prince just has to be more consistent.  You can't follow up a win against a top 5/10 team like Texas and fall flat on your face against morally ranked ku team. 

QFT. I am sure that will be the mantra this week at practice. The UT win will only be as good as the next game. Must win.

No it won't.  Last I checked if we lose to ku we don't have to retroactively forfeit our beatdown of Texas.

If we beat ku we can build a better season, but the ku game should have nothing at all to do with the Texas game.  I don't want the team to have a let down, I don't want to lose but we beat a top 10 team.  Callahan hasn't done that, Mangino?  Gundy?  Pinkel?  This is a big deal and its importance should not hinge on the outcome of the ku game.

I want a Big 12 North title, I want a 10 win season, I want all of that sh1t.  But let's not forget so quickly how big a deal the Texas win is now and in the future.  Prince has two top 10 wins in two years!!  Consistency etc. is insane to bring up.  Prince has turned around a program from two straight 4 win seasons to a 7 win season and now we look like we will improve upon that.  What does Prince have to do to impress people?  A better Touchdown stomp?

I think we are all enjoying this win immensely, and will all week, but you can't tell me that a loss to ku this week would not give you a severe let down and a bit of depression. Having to listen to Squawks for the next year is much worse than losing to Texas.

[fatty fat fat]

agree with KK 100% here.

zacker' sounds like the powertards that would rather beat ku than Texas.

[Kat Kid]

KSU under Prince just has to be more consistent.  You can't follow up a win against a top 5/10 team like Texas and fall flat on your face against morally ranked ku team. 

QFT. I am sure that will be the mantra this week at practice. The UT win will only be as good as the next game. Must win.

No it won't.  Last I checked if we lose to ku we don't have to retroactively forfeit our beatdown of Texas.

If we beat ku we can build a better season, but the ku game should have nothing at all to do with the Texas game.  I don't want the team to have a let down, I don't want to lose but we beat a top 10 team.  Callahan hasn't done that, Mangino?  Gundy?  Pinkel?  This is a big deal and its importance should not hinge on the outcome of the ku game.

I want a Big 12 North title, I want a 10 win season, I want all of that sh1t.  But let's not forget so quickly how big a deal the Texas win is now and in the future.  Prince has two top 10 wins in two years!!  Consistency etc. is insane to bring up.  Prince has turned around a program from two straight 4 win seasons to a 7 win season and now we look like we will improve upon that.  What does Prince have to do to impress people?  A better Touchdown stomp?

I think we are all enjoying this win immensely, and will all week, but you can't tell me that a loss to ku this week would not give you a severe let down and a bit of depression. Having to listen to Squawks for the next year is much worse than losing to Texas.

Wow.  You'd rather beat ku than top 10 Texas on the road.

I don't even know what to say.

[willie83]

KSU under Prince just has to be more consistent.  You can't follow up a win against a top 5/10 team like Texas and fall flat on your face against morally ranked ku team. 

QFT. I am sure that will be the mantra this week at practice. The UT win will only be as good as the next game. Must win.

No it won't.  Last I checked if we lose to ku we don't have to retroactively forfeit our beatdown of Texas.

If we beat ku we can build a better season, but the ku game should have nothing at all to do with the Texas game.  I don't want the team to have a let down, I don't want to lose but we beat a top 10 team.  Callahan hasn't done that, Mangino?  Gundy?  Pinkel?  This is a big deal and its importance should not hinge on the outcome of the ku game.

I want a Big 12 North title, I want a 10 win season, I want all of that sh1t.  But let's not forget so quickly how big a deal the Texas win is now and in the future.  Prince has two top 10 wins in two years!!  Consistency etc. is insane to bring up.  Prince has turned around a program from two straight 4 win seasons to a 7 win season and now we look like we will improve upon that.  What does Prince have to do to impress people?  A better Touchdown stomp?

I think we are all enjoying this win immensely, and will all week, but you can't tell me that a loss to ku this week would not give you a severe let down and a bit of depression. Having to listen to Squawks for the next year is much worse than losing to Texas.

Wow.  You'd rather beat ku than top 10 Texas on the road.

I don't even know what to say.

I could have worded that better, but give us your thoughts should we lose to ku this week.

Edit: BTW, I don't expect to lose, or even be close.

[Kat Kid]

I don't want us to lose to ku, I think we should beat ku, I would be disappointed if we lost to ku but that won't change at all how I feel about the Texas game.

It will make me uneasy about the rest of the season and Prince in general, but ku has had a week off, this is an absolute MUST WIN for Mangino and who knows how we respond after the Texas game.  I have every reason to think we will win, but I am not oblivious to the fact that ku could come in and beat us, I guess I just don't see how that would be the end-all of our season like some on here think.  Texas and Nebraska are the teams I want to beat.  ku is a should-win embarrassing-type loss, but not a MUST-WIN rivalry thing.

[willie83]

I don't want us to lose to ku, I think we should beat ku, I would be disappointed if we lost to ku but that won't change at all how I feel about the Texas game.

It will make me uneasy about the rest of the season and Prince in general, but ku has had a week off, this is an absolute MUST WIN for Mangino and who knows how we respond after the Texas game.  I have every reason to think we will win, but I am not oblivious to the fact that ku could come in and beat us, I guess I just don't see how that would be the end-all of our season like some on here think.  Texas and Nebraska are the teams I want to beat.  ku is a should-win embarrassing-type loss, but not a MUST-WIN rivalry thing.

That's all I was trying to get at, because the win at Texas was one of the biggest in school history and I certainly did not intend to diminish that in any way, but a loss to ku would affect me directly and in close proximity for 12 months.

[konofo]

a loss to ku would affect me directly and in close proximity for 12 months.

Grow some skin, Nancy.

kono

[willie83]

a loss to ku would affect me directly and in close proximity for 12 months.

Grow some skin, Nancy.

kono

Noted

willie

[doom]

Bottom line:  We need to blow ku off of the field.  We need to blitz Reesing all morning/afternoon long until Mangino is puking whole cupcakes on the sideline like he was McCoy.

[Bookcat]

yesterday shows that Special teams is what can level the playing field against teams that are bigger and stronger (we looked as fast as them) .

First off...I don't like you because you root for Kstate and ku. Second, our offensive and defensive lines did just fine against Texas yesterday..I don't think uT was stronger.

[catzacker]

agree with KK 100% here.

zacker' sounds like the powertards that would rather beat ku than Texas.

I don't get where in my post I said that I'd rather we beat ku than Texas.  I simply said that we need to be a more consistent program, which includes beating good teams (Texas) and teams like ku. 

[mjrod]

The point of this thread is RP > BS and it's turned into "I just wanna beat ku" as if ku is even  relevant.

We lost to ku last year and it did nothing for us or them.   We still went bowling and they still stayed home.

Now, as far as whether RP > BS.. you cannot answer the question until you see RP accomplish what BS did and that is dominate the Big 12 the way BS did since it's inception.   He will pass BS when he wins more than one conference championship and gets us into an NC game.

Snyder handed over a program that was ready for new blood, new directions, and new ideas.  Snyder said this was the right time and now he's looking like a genius because we're seeing that Prince took the program over and has run it well despite criticisms from the old birds and those within a comfort zone.   However, KSU has since lost to Baylor, and Prince is 0-1 against Kansas.   We did beat OSU and Texas, re-establishing our dominance over the south, now he needs to do it against the north.  You have to remember that Prince beats NU in Manhattan, KSU is the Big 12 Champions (even losing to ku).

Say whatever you want, but Prince got a start Snyder didn't and had more obstacles, but the only way Prince can eclipse the guy who laid the foundation, is to literally have a list of accomplishments like Bob Stoops.

So far, so good.

[rjd27]

I get both sides of this argument. Defeating Texas, on the road, is a great launching pad for K-State in the Big 12 season. But, the team cannot follow up a great win with a loss - at home. And to the other school in the state, no less (and in the same division). Seeing how the team responds this year to the Texas win in how it handles Kansas will tell us, the fans, a great deal about where this program is.
Let me put it this way: if K-State goes 1-7 in the Big 12, what does the win at Texas mean? Zilch. Sorry, but if the team can't use that win to propel itself to a good/great season, then it's just a stat for Prince to boast about. Not that he'd be boasting about much of anything.
R.J.

ps. well stated mjrod

[Kat Kid]

RP > BS

is never going to be a fair comparison.  It is pointless, counter-productive and ultimately highly subjective.

The facts are these:  Ron Prince inherited a pretty poor program, he ran off a stable of QBs in favor of Freeman, he recruited two absolute studs at RB and he has brought in a couple playmakers on D.

Prince didn't start anywhere near as bad as Snyder but comparing where Prince started to where other Big XII coaches started when they inherited their programs and then comparing subsequent progress (or lack thereof) is instructive.  Prince has had (so far) the best start of any new head coach in the Big XII in recent memory outside of Bob Stoops.  I'll take it.

[AzCat]

Prince may accomplish some things that, at first glance, appear to eclipse what Snyder did at KSU but in truth he'll never surpass Bill's impact on the program or the university. 

[Kat Kid]

Prince may accomplish some things that, at first glance, appear to eclipse what Snyder did at KSU but in truth he'll never surpass Bill's impact on the program or the university. 

I agree, but can we get an update on your Prince hate and how that's working out for you?

LOL!

[AzCat]

I like Ron Prince just as I have since day one when most of you were whining about the hire.  The team, however, does not suck as much ass as I expected this year.   

[Kat Kid]

I like Ron Prince just as I have since day one when most of you were whining about the hire.  The team, however, does not suck as much ass as I expected this year.   

We're emotional, you have no soul. 

[mjrod]

RP > BS

is never going to be a fair comparison.  It is pointless, counter-productive and ultimately highly subjective.

The facts are these:  Ron Prince inherited a pretty poor program, he ran off a stable of QBs in favor of Freeman, he recruited two absolute studs at RB and he has brought in a couple playmakers on D.

Prince didn't start anywhere near as bad as Snyder but comparing where Prince started to where other Big XII coaches started when they inherited their programs and then comparing subsequent progress (or lack thereof) is instructive.  Prince has had (so far) the best start of any new head coach in the Big XII in recent memory outside of Bob Stoops.  I'll take it.

Absolutely agree it's not going to be a fair comparison, but results are going to matter.    Snyder never promised championships, but he promised a competitive team and we'd go to some bowls.   He surpassed those and in the end, gave KSU expectations we'd (those of us who were around and lucid when Snyder was hired) had never thought possible.

And no, I wouldn't trade what Prince has done either as he's surpassed a lot of people's expectations, and making Weiser look like genius.   However, if he's going to erase Snyder's legacy, he'll have to not only meet the bold expectations, he'll have to keep making them higher and showing he can meet it.

That's why I said he'd have to do a Bob Stoops like performance.

[chum1]

Snyder only had a few seasons in which his teams were coming off seasons worse than those that preceded Prince's.  Most of the time, he had teams coming of off spectacular seasons.  He had issues with winning the big game and taking things to the next level.  The turnaround may make us okay with this, but it doesn't make it untrue.

[Kat Kid]

I just don't want anyone to forget how huge a deal Snyder's accomplishments were.

Prince has achieved something very significant, but wholly different.

I don't know how to compare the two and until Prince has at least one Big XII title it isn't even a very interesting discussion.

[tmramrod91]

This seriously should not even be a discussion. Snyder is one of the greatest coaches in the HISTORY of CFB. The stats he put together during the DOD were on par with some of the greatest programs of his time, and in a lot of cases, better than those other power houses (see FFF's video).
Right now, RP has a better coaching STAFF than BS did his last 2 yrs. Its obvious BS had talent on those teams, many of whom are major contributors for RP. RP is yet to prove he can put together and entire season and show some consistency, depsite having some landmark wins.
Until RP puts together 10 years worth of jaw dropping stats and wins a NC, he should not even be considered to be on par with the Legendary Bill Snyder.

(as a side note, I was not a whole hearted RP believer....but I'm startin to get some confidence in him. He's gotta show me something next wk though.)

 

[Kat Kid]

This seriously should not even be a discussion. Snyder is one of the greatest coaches in the HISTORY of CFB. The stats he put together during the DOD were on par with some of the greatest programs of his time, and in a lot of cases, better than those other power houses (see FFF's video).
Right now, RP has a better coaching STAFF than BS did his last 2 yrs. Its obvious BS had talent on those teams, many of whom are major contributors for RP. RP is yet to prove he can put together and entire season and show some consistency, depsite having some landmark wins.
Until RP puts together 10 years worth of jaw dropping stats and wins a NC, he should not even be considered to be on par with the Legendary Bill Snyder.

(as a side note, I was not a whole hearted RP believer....but I'm startin to get some confidence in him. He's gotta show me something next wk though.)

 

As though that wasn't obvious throughout the rest of your post.

[willie83]

I just don't want anyone to forget how huge a deal Snyder's accomplishments were.

Prince has achieved something very significant, but wholly different.

I don't know how to compare the two and until Prince has at least one Big XII title it isn't even a very interesting discussion.

True. Prince has achieved one thing Snyder never did, a top ten road win. But to bring the worst team in D1 football to the brink of a national championship is something no other coach has ever done and may never again.

[doom]

I just don't want anyone to forget how huge a deal Snyder's accomplishments were.

Prince has achieved something very significant, but wholly different.

I don't know how to compare the two and until Prince has at least one Big XII title it isn't even a very interesting discussion.

True. Prince has achieved one thing Snyder never did, a top ten road win. But to bring the worst team in D1 football to the brink of a national championship is something no other coach has ever done and may never again.

What I do have to say for Prince though, is that we had sunk into the cellar of the Big12 in two short years, and I don't think anyone could have brought us back to life this quickly.  I mean we went to a bowl game and defeated a top 5 team in his first year.  We just got our first ranking since the Big12 championship game after destroying the #7 longhorns in Austin.  The man can and will coach.  I think this guy has the potential to rise to BS levels.

[Kat Kid]

I just don't want anyone to forget how huge a deal Snyder's accomplishments were.

Prince has achieved something very significant, but wholly different.

I don't know how to compare the two and until Prince has at least one Big XII title it isn't even a very interesting discussion.

True. Prince has achieved one thing Snyder never did, a top ten road win. But to bring the worst team in D1 football to the brink of a national championship is something no other coach has ever done and may never again.

What I do have to say for Prince though, is that we had sunk into the cellar of the Big12 in two short years, and I don't think anyone could have brought us back to life this quickly.  I mean we went to a bowl game and defeated a top 5 team in his first year.  We just got our first ranking since the Big12 championship game after destroying the #7 longhorns in Austin.  The man can and will coach.  I think this guy has the potential to rise to BS levels.

But the problem is defining that.  Prince didn't have to deal with anything like Snyder did when he first came here.  For Prince to be better than BS he has to elevate the program another level by winning multiple Big XII titles and BCS appearances or Winning a NC (which I think is virtually impossible for us).  BS elevated K-State from the worst in the nation to one that consistently competed for championships (one national title season derailed, three big XII appearances and one big 12 title).  All things considered, Snyder doesn't have that many bullet points for a resume.  Where are all the Big XII titles?  The top 10 wins?  The NC?  The BCS wins?  The top 5 finishes?  The top 10 finishes even?  He "turned us around" and that is very difficult to quantify, I'm not at all demeaning what he did but to compare Prince and him will be impossible because Prince has benefited greatly from what Snyder built.  Prince, if he is a success and worthy of comparing to Snyder, will have all of the sexy numbers and achievements that eluded Snyder but that doesn't necessarily make him better or worse.  Snyder did something very different and incomprehensibly impressive.

[Racquetball_Ninja]

Sorry man, I love Prince but he'll have to have 10 years of success and get us to a National Championship before I'll hand the crown over to him. 

Prince has coached his team to 2 huge wins, Snyder brought our football team back from oblivion and turned it into a program.

[AzCat]

But the problem is defining that.  Prince didn't have to deal with anything like Snyder did when he first came here.  For Prince to be better than BS he has to elevate the program another level by winning multiple Big XII titles and BCS appearances or Winning a NC (which I think is virtually impossible for us).  BS elevated K-State from the worst in the nation to one that consistently competed for championships (one national title season derailed, three big XII appearances and one big 12 title).  All things considered, Snyder doesn't have that many bullet points for a resume.  Where are all the Big XII titles?  The top 10 wins?  The NC?  The BCS wins?  The top 5 finishes?  The top 10 finishes even?  He "turned us around" and that is very difficult to quantify, I'm not at all demeaning what he did but to compare Prince and him will be impossible because Prince has benefited greatly from what Snyder built.  Prince, if he is a success and worthy of comparing to Snyder, will have all of the sexy numbers and achievements that eluded Snyder but that doesn't necessarily make him better or worse.  Snyder did something very different and incomprehensibly impressive.

Lots of these guys are probably too young to remember the very serious discussions about dropping football and moving out of the Big 8 that occurred at KSU around the time Snyder was hired.  Imagine KSU as a BB-only school in the MVC and you'll begin to grasp the enormous impact Snyder, and Jon Wefald of course, actually had on the university.  Prince could win back-to-back-to-back national championships and it wouldn't begin to equal Snyder's impact but it would certainly make valid what is now a very silly debate. 

[Kat Kid]

RECORD ENROLLMENT AGAIN THIS YEAR!