A question about our finish..

[NorthChamps07]

Did anyone else notice that we were in a cover 2 prevent in the td drive?  We kicked them all over the filed for 56 minutes and then be let up when the game was on the line. 

[Bookcat]

Did anyone else notice that we were in a cover 2 prevent in the td drive?  We kicked them all over the filed for 56 minutes and then be let up when the game was on the line. 

I didn'dt think that was cover two..but I'll find out.

Yeah, the pressure just wasn't there...but we had the ball before they did and we did JACK with it. You put the defense on the field that much and AU was going to score a TD eventually.

[ksu_FAN]

I didn't think we were in prevent at all, though we were in zone.  We kept sending blitzes, they just picked them up plus Cox was getting the ball out quick.  They went to a quick slant game and it worked.  We just weren't able to get our OLB drops into the slant zones or they threw against the blitz. 

[NorthChamps07]

I was at the game and if it wasn't prevent, someone made a big mistake.  We were giving the slot receivers 8-10 yards.  I call that prevent.

[catzacker]

Fan is right.  We were just in a zone.  Our OLB (I think it was Walker and/or Moore) weren't getting into their drops quick enough or deep enough by the time Cox got rid of the ball.  I think Moore was about a finger tip away from deflecting a 3rd down pass on their final drive. 

[ksu_FAN]

I was at the game and if it wasn't prevent, someone made a big mistake.  We were giving the slot receivers 8-10 yards.  I call that prevent.

It was likely a cover 2 or a cover 8.  If it was 2, our CBs didn't do a good job of jamming the WRs off the LOS and if it was 8, our OLBs need to do a better job of getting drops.  The reason I don't call it prevent is because we were still sending 5 or 6 guys at Cox.  We were just playing zone behind it and I think the idea was to keep them in front and make them drive the field.  The problem is they were able to catch and split us and get some pretty big gains.  If we keep those slants in front of us and tackle them for a 5 yard gain we are okay, and eventually if we make them run a bunch of plays we are going to get to Cox.  Their OC just called a good drive that last one and frankly I'm surprised they didn't try to go that route earlier in the game.  

[mjrod]

I was at the game and if it wasn't prevent, someone made a big mistake.  We were giving the slot receivers 8-10 yards.  I call that prevent.

It was likely a cover 2 or a cover 8.  If it was 2, our CBs didn't do a good job of jamming the WRs off the LOS and if it was 8, our OLBs need to do a better job of getting drops.  The reason I don't call it prevent is because we were still sending 5 or 6 guys at Cox.  We were just playing zone behind it and I think the idea was to keep them in front and make them drive the field.  The problem is they were able to catch and split us and get some pretty big gains.  If we keep those slants in front of us and tackle them for a 5 yard gain we are okay, and eventually if we make them run a bunch of plays we are going to get to Cox.  Their OC just called a good drive that last one and frankly I'm surprised they didn't try to go that route earlier in the game. 

Looked like zone coverage.

Walker let the TE get behind him because Cox was looking towards the WR until the TE got behind him.

Watch the replay of that last TD drive and you'll see it.   I went ballistic.  Auburn wasn't going to pound it in, and the LB's were missing assignments all night.

[ksu_FAN]

I was at the game and if it wasn't prevent, someone made a big mistake.  We were giving the slot receivers 8-10 yards.  I call that prevent.

It was likely a cover 2 or a cover 8.  If it was 2, our CBs didn't do a good job of jamming the WRs off the LOS and if it was 8, our OLBs need to do a better job of getting drops.  The reason I don't call it prevent is because we were still sending 5 or 6 guys at Cox.  We were just playing zone behind it and I think the idea was to keep them in front and make them drive the field.  The problem is they were able to catch and split us and get some pretty big gains.  If we keep those slants in front of us and tackle them for a 5 yard gain we are okay, and eventually if we make them run a bunch of plays we are going to get to Cox.  Their OC just called a good drive that last one and frankly I'm surprised they didn't try to go that route earlier in the game. 

Looked like zone coverage.

Walker let the TE get behind him because Cox was looking towards the WR until the TE got behind him.

Watch the replay of that last TD drive and you'll see it.   I went ballistic.  Auburn wasn't going to pound it in, and the LB's were missing assignments all night.

Yeah, it was zone.  Just saying that zone doesn't necessarily mean prevent in that situation, and it wasn't b/c we were sending people.  With the 3-4, you can play zone or man, but with zone and blitzes you rotate coverages and try to disguise the blitzes b/c you can send LBs from multiple spots.  However, you must be very sound behind it with zone in your drops and frankly sometimes the offense just guesses right.  And mjrod is right, we weren't very good at getting our drops from our LBs and at times they were confused as to where they should be.  We did run some man as well, but I can see why we didn't down the stretch to keep their WRs in front b/c a FG wouldn't hurt us.  The problem was we didn't keep their WRs in front and tackle which allowed AU to drive the field.

[mjrod]

And that's what started the drinking heavily after the Patton TD.

Seems as though Auburn had picked up on the LB's getting confused.  Cox was looking off defenders and letting guys get open.  Of course we nailed him time and again, but all that matters is if you can get one or two times to make the defense bite, a TE, WR or someone sneaking out of the backfield can find a wide open space, and Cox hit it.

I like that we can pressure the QB, and I like that we can do coverage, but the LB's are the weak link in our passing defense and Tibs needs to get on top of that.

I like having smart, bright O-Lineman, but I'd also like some smart - bright LB's.. after all, it's the LB position that sets the defense.

[ksu_FAN]

But that can be fixed.  Keep in mind that the LB responsibilities in pass coverage are much different now than last year's Tampa 2 or the 4-3 scheme of Elliot/Snyder from a few years ago.  For the first time in a game situation, especially in a hostile environment, they probably graded out decent.  Certainly not great, but decent.  You are right, it has to improve, but I fully expect it to improve.

The key will be seeing how Tibesar makes adjustments as the season goes on.  Granted we had some major injuries, but last year's D also looked pretty good early but was pretty bad by the end of the year.  I'm anxious to see how this D does over the long haul, but have to admit I was pretty pleased for the first game.  I'd give it around a B for the first time, especially considering the circumstances.

[mjrod]

I have no doubt that it's correctable, but other teams are going to see that on film and try to take advantage of that and we can't let that happen.  If I were an OC and I saw that, I would be telling my QB to look off the LB for the TE or WR to get open in space.

[catzacker]

Our D looked good, we definitely have some issues, but I'm curious what other teams are going to do against as more and more film gets out on us.  The part that I like about the 3-4 defense is that you increase the variables that another team has to game plan for (in comparison to a 4-3), no matter how much film they have on us. 

[ksu_FAN]

Our D looked good, we definitely have some issues, but I'm curious what other teams are going to do against as more and more film gets out on us.  The part that I like about the 3-4 defense is that you increase the variables that another team has to game plan for (in comparison to a 4-3), no matter how much film they have on us. 

Great points.  And if we can continue to get play from our front 3 like we did last week to keep OL off of our LBs we'll be in great shape.  That's going to be a key to this season and maintaining the rush defense we saw last week.

[FHSU92]

Who's decision was it to go to a cover2, prevent, zone, whatever?  Prince's or Tib's.  IMO, if it (the D) ain't broke don't fix it.

[ksu_FAN]

Who's decision was it to go to a cover2, prevent, zone, whatever?  Prince's or Tib's.  IMO, if it (the D) ain't broke don't fix it.

There was no major switch.  We mixed zone and man the entire game.  We stuck with zone much of that last drive and people noticed it, but we had played plenty of zone before that during the game.  If anything, it was Auburn who finally made an adjustment and it worked.  We were attacking just as much that last drive with blitzes as we did the entire game.

[catzacker]

IIRC, we got beat when we were in man as well.  I thought Marcus Perry got burnt once for a big play and it happened another time as well with a reciever on a crossing route (looked like we got confused). 

[ksu_FAN]

IIRC, we got beat when we were in man as well.  I thought Marcus Perry got burnt once for a big play and it happened another time as well with a reciever on a crossing route (looked like we got confused). 

Yeah.  We have to face it (and we should remember anyway) when you blitz a lot sometimes the offense is going to have the right play called and you are going to get beat no matter what the coverage.  Its part of the risk/reward of playing agressive.  I thought the reward was greater than the risk saturday and I think the defense only giving up 13 points shows that*.

*3 of Auburn's points were set up by a punt return and the last 7 from the fumble recovery/score.

[Fedor]

I was at the game and if it wasn't prevent, someone made a big mistake.  We were giving the slot receivers 8-10 yards.  I call that prevent.

It was likely a cover 2 or a cover 8.  If it was 2, our CBs didn't do a good job of jamming the WRs off the LOS and if it was 8, our OLBs need to do a better job of getting drops.  The reason I don't call it prevent is because we were still sending 5 or 6 guys at Cox.  We were just playing zone behind it and I think the idea was to keep them in front and make them drive the field.  The problem is they were able to catch and split us and get some pretty big gains.  If we keep those slants in front of us and tackle them for a 5 yard gain we are okay, and eventually if we make them run a bunch of plays we are going to get to Cox.  Their OC just called a good drive that last one and frankly I'm surprised they didn't try to go that route earlier in the game. 

What personnel were in the game that makes the cover 8 an option?

[opcat]

Auburn was playing alot of rookies on that Oline and we weren't getting pressure in the 4th. 

[mjrod]

Auburn was playing alot of rookies on that Oline and we weren't getting pressure in the 4th. 

 

[opcat]

Their drive?

[ksu_FAN]

I was at the game and if it wasn't prevent, someone made a big mistake.  We were giving the slot receivers 8-10 yards.  I call that prevent.

It was likely a cover 2 or a cover 8.  If it was 2, our CBs didn't do a good job of jamming the WRs off the LOS and if it was 8, our OLBs need to do a better job of getting drops.  The reason I don't call it prevent is because we were still sending 5 or 6 guys at Cox.  We were just playing zone behind it and I think the idea was to keep them in front and make them drive the field.  The problem is they were able to catch and split us and get some pretty big gains.  If we keep those slants in front of us and tackle them for a 5 yard gain we are okay, and eventually if we make them run a bunch of plays we are going to get to Cox.  Their OC just called a good drive that last one and frankly I'm surprised they didn't try to go that route earlier in the game. 

What personnel were in the game that makes the cover 8 an option?

First, when I say cover 8 I probably mean what most people say is cover 4 meaning each DB has deep coverage on their 1/4 of the field.  Cover 2 means the safeties each have a deep 1/2 and the corners underneath on the outside in the flat.  In that case they should be bumping a reciever off the and dropping into their zone.  And finally for those that don't know, cover 3 is deep 1/3s, usually with the 2 CBs and a safety, while the other safety plays up in a flat while the other is flat is occupied by a LB.  This is a common zone that you roll to when you blitz and OLB.  Then depending on formation you might have combo coverages where you have man on one half of the field and zone on the other, etc.  Plus what I call cover 11 and cover 12; 11 being man across with 1 deep safety, and 12 being man across with 2 deep.  

If you watch a game you can often tell the coverage by watching where the CBs put their eyes.  In cover 2, the corners should be up and will bump WRs, but their eyes will immediately go to the QB.  If its Cover 8 or 3, the CBs will usually be off 5-10 yards, but their eyes will be on the QB at the snap.  And usually in any man coverage, the CBs will be locked onto a WR.  Of course, good CBs will try to disquise these looks at the snap and adjust, but even in college ball that's somewhat difficult to do.  And most teams are going to disguise their zones by making a Cover 8 look like a Cover 2 at the snap, etc.