jayhox...answer this simple question..

[The Manhatter]

disregarding common opponents:
Meier Freeman
47   79
50   80
52   94
53   99
-    119
avg avg
51   94


Meier faced 4 opponents with better pass defenses than the best that Freeman faced. Freeman padded his stats against much worse pass defenses than what Meier faced. Even against better pass defenses, Meier put up better numbers.

And yes, this was taken from someone on Phog, but it points out that the toughest passing D Freeman faced of non-common opponents was #79.

Hox shifts gears to leave out #6 Rutgers Pass D.  Then goes on to try to con us by saying "4 pass D's Meier faced were bettter"...clever as it includes NW St. which was 52nd ranked pass D in 1AA!!  So now 1AA ranking is interchangeable w/ 1A ranking...seriously.

Let's match up those numbers w/ names

47 Toledo
50 La Monroe
52 (1AA) NW St

And that is all we need to know.  Regardless of the type of schedule they faced to accumulate such rankings...Toledo, La Monroe, and 1AA NW State have better pass D's than Texas, Rutgers, and Nebraska.

Yep...that is what she's saying.

[michigancat]

Leaving out #6 Rutgers and counting NWSU as #52 is lolleriffic.

[fatty fat fat]

Leaving out #6 Rutgers and counting NWSU as #52 is lolleriffic.

Not to mention the fact that ku is #119 (last)

16 volts of LOL there.

[michigancat]

ZAP!

[michigancat]

Although, this is one of those moments that make people never come back to this board.

[waks]

Your whole argument regarding the pass defense rankings is retarded. Do you think Northwestern St, La-Monroe, and Toledo would have better ranked pass defenses than ku, UT, CU, or NU if they played in the Big XII? The quality of their opponents factors into their ranking.

[cireksu]

We'll have to excuse hox, you see he posts at phog.net.  At that place his statistics are not questioned, and he is lauded as a genius for compiling them.  And his ron prince avatar.

[Sandman]

Honest question.  Leave Meier out of this, because I think it's distorting things.

What makes you all so confident in Freeman?  Don't compare him to Meier, that's not my point.  The fact remains that Freeman was awful last year.  6td and 15int awful.  6tds in 8 starts awful.  His two worst games were his last two.  One against the worst pass defense in D-1.  His Spring Game performance was awful.  Why all this blind optimism about him? 

[fatty fat fat]

4-3 vs big 12 competition. As an 18 year old true freshmen in an offense where everyone was learning a new scheme.

[michigancat]

Plus, It isn't blind optimism when you are a true freshman follow up a 22-26 performance (Big XII) with a win over a top 5 team.  He struggled (a lot) in his losses and played great in his wins.  The wins were plenty of reason for optimism.

[Sandman]

4-3 vs big 12 competition. As an 18 year old true freshmen in an offense where everyone was learning a new scheme.

4-3 in spite of Freeman, not because of him.  How many times did special teams save your ass last year?

[fatty fat fat]

4-3 vs big 12 competition. As an 18 year old true freshmen in an offense where everyone was learning a new scheme.

4-3 in spite of Freeman, not because of him.  How many times did special teams save your ass last year?

Those 4 wins were pretty much all freeman (except ISU...but he was solid in that game). Go examine the games we won.

[cireksu]

torching texas.

The writing was on the wall in the loss to ku, no figures, hurt jordy, no safety's.


rutgers just completely outclassed us.

Freeman was a true freshman playing in a system that almost none of his offensive teamates were recruited to play in.

[cireksu]

Wasn't he also back to back big 12 offenive player of the week?

[fatty fat fat]

Wasn't he also back to back big 12 offenive player of the week?

Yes.

[waks]

4-3 vs big 12 competition. As an 18 year old true freshmen in an offense where everyone was learning a new scheme.

4-3 in spite of Freeman, not because of him.  How many times did special teams save your ass last year?

Freeman won OSU, CU, and UT for us. Without him, we wouldn't have won. He played a big roll against ISU but we would have still won with another quarterback. We've seen what he looks like when he is on, 22-26, and he is scary good. That is where this optimism comes from. It's a little bit of a stretch to call it blind.

[The Manhatter]

Honest question.  Leave Meier out of this, because I think it's distorting things.

What makes you all so confident in Freeman?  Don't compare him to Meier, that's not my point.  The fact remains that Freeman was awful last year.  6td and 15int awful.  6tds in 8 starts awful.  His two worst games were his last two.  One against the worst pass defense in D-1.  His Spring Game performance was awful.  Why all this blind optimism about him? 

Nobody here truly cares about 6/15.  Nobody.  We know he was an 18 year old TRUE freshman playing in a MAJOR conference and surrounded by an INEXPERIENCED offense both as players and w/ a new offensive system.  Add to that he had a mash unit for a recieving corps (Val Taylor gone before season, Toney Coleman has season ending injury in pre-season camp, Jordy 1/2 knee all year, Moreira gone for year midway through season, Figurs battled ankle injury early and then missed all of ku game and most of Rutgers game).  LOL.

But keep pretending he's not a crazy talented kid.  Keep pretending he knew the offense like the back of his hand as did all of the young players surrounding him offensively.  Keep pretending he didn't actually win two Big 12 Off POW awards and a national off POW award in spite of all I mentioned.

[cireksu]

Honest question.  Leave Meier out of this, because I think it's distorting things.

What makes you all so confident in Freeman?  Don't compare him to Meier, that's not my point.  The fact remains that Freeman was awful last year.  6td and 15int awful.  6tds in 8 starts awful.  His two worst games were his last two.  One against the worst pass defense in D-1.  His Spring Game performance was awful.  Why all this blind optimism about him? 

Nobody here truly cares about 6/15.  Nobody.  We know he was an 18 year old TRUE freshman playing in a MAJOR conference and surrounded by an INEXPERIENCED offense both as players and w/ a new offensive system.  Add to that he had a mash unit for a recieving corps (Val Taylor gone before season, Toney Coleman has season ending injury in pre-season camp, Jordy 1/2 knee all year, Moreira gone for year midway through season, Figurs battled ankle injury early and then missed all of ku game and most of Rutgers game).  LOL.

But keep pretending he's not a crazy talented kid.  Keep pretending he knew the offense like the back of his hand as did all of the young players surrounding him offensively.  Keep pretending he didn't actually win two Big 12 Off POW awards and a national off POW award in spite of all I mentioned.

Now that's damn good for a Tight end, even you have to admit that hox.

[ERA7777]

Let's put it this way so hox can understand.  If Kerry played for K-State, he would be behind Freeman, Coffman and Hartman on the Depth Chart.  To make it even easier to understand: Hartman is better than Kerry, Coffman is better than Hartman and Freeman is better than Coffman.   

[kougar24]

.....And then, Jayhox was gone.

[Sandman]

Let's put it this way so hox can understand.  If Kerry played for K-State, he would be behind Freeman, Coffman and Hartman on the Depth Chart.  To make it even easier to understand: Hartman is better than Kerry, Coffman is better than Hartman and Freeman is better than Coffman.   

Once again, I'm not defending Meier.  Why is that so hard to understand?

I just have never seen so much faith in a QB who ended the season horribly last year, who was horrible in the spring game, who had only 6tds and 15 ints, who will play behind a bad offensive line.  Didn't you get the idea that both ku and Rutgers had him pretty well figured out?

I definitely think Patton was your most impressive freshman last year, just not the most hyped.

[The Manhatter]

Let's put it this way so hox can understand.  If Kerry played for K-State, he would be behind Freeman, Coffman and Hartman on the Depth Chart.  To make it even easier to understand: Hartman is better than Kerry, Coffman is better than Hartman and Freeman is better than Coffman.   

Once again, I'm not defending Meier.  Why is that so hard to understand?

I just have never seen so much faith in a QB who ended the season horribly last year, who was horrible in the spring game, who had only 6tds and 15 ints, who will play behind a bad offensive line.  Didn't you get the idea that both ku and Rutgers had him pretty well figured out?

I definitely think Patton was your most impressive freshman last year, just not the most hyped.

you're an idiot.  You are fixated on 6/15.  Obviously you didn't watch the kid play last year other than two games.

How was he supposed to do anything against ku when Figurs was out, Moreira was out, Jordy was on a bad knee and ku had everybody at the LOS for their super bowl?  You are absolutely fixated on some int's.  Get over it.  Hell, most of his int's were passes tipped by his own receivers..how do you know he didn't put it where he was supposed to but the receiver did not run the proper route?  How do you know?

Get over it.  There are not many QB's in the NCAA who can make some of the throws Freeman is capable of making.  He will get more consistent and idiots like you will go into hiding.

Why did he have only 6 TD's?  I don't know...probably because we ran the ball once we got into the redzone because Prince is conservative when he has a chance to kick a FG and we had a MASH unit for receivers.  Why did he throw 15 int's?  Because he was a f-ng freshman w/ a lot on his plate.  Get over it.

Freeman is the most talented QB in the Big 12 and if he can get any kind of OL play he will dominate.  He did in stretches last season but you seem to forget that.

Hell, even though he was handcuffed he still managed to throw for 250 on the birds...how he did that I don't know given he had nothing in the way of receivers and Mangino sent people into the backfield every play.

[BMWJhawk]

This is how I see it.  When ku and K-State played against each other, ku won, 39-20.  Josh Freeman had 6 turnovers and played like he did against just about everyone other than Texas and Colorado. 

Kerry Meier may not have the God-give talent and athletic ability that Josh Freeman has, but Meier is a solid Big 12 QB with size and speed.  Many forget or just overlook the fact that he was only a RS-Fr. last season. 

[catzacker]

This is how I see it.  When ku and K-State played against each other, ku won, 39-20.  Josh Freeman had 6 turnovers and played like he did against just about everyone other than Texas and Colorado. 

Kerry Meier may not have the God-give talent and athletic ability that Josh Freeman has, but Meier is a solid Big 12 QB with size and speed.  Many forget or just overlook the fact that he was only a RS-Fr. last season. 

Seriously, you're f'd in the head.  Freeman only played well in the UT and CU game?  Maybe you missed the OSU game where he led his team to two scores within 3 minutes to win the game and then had a very effective game against ISU.  Look, I don't know how to break this to you, but KSU's season isn't determined by the ku game, so keep holding onto that meaningless win.  Freeman had some bad games, the ku and MU game come to mind, but when you take a look at the season as a whole, a true freshman QB played an integral part in a 4-4 conference record which led us to a bowl game (both firsts since 2003).  And all that behind a piss poor o-line. 

And KM is nothing more than a newer version of his pussy brother Dylan.  Both had mediocre, at best, results and spent much more time sitting their candy asses on the bench than playing. 

[Sandman]

Let's put it this way so hox can understand.  If Kerry played for K-State, he would be behind Freeman, Coffman and Hartman on the Depth Chart.  To make it even easier to understand: Hartman is better than Kerry, Coffman is better than Hartman and Freeman is better than Coffman.   

Once again, I'm not defending Meier.  Why is that so hard to understand?

I just have never seen so much faith in a QB who ended the season horribly last year, who was horrible in the spring game, who had only 6tds and 15 ints, who will play behind a bad offensive line.  Didn't you get the idea that both ku and Rutgers had him pretty well figured out?

I definitely think Patton was your most impressive freshman last year, just not the most hyped.

you're an idiot.  You are fixated on 6/15.  Obviously you didn't watch the kid play last year other than two games.

How was he supposed to do anything against ku when Figurs was out, Moreira was out, Jordy was on a bad knee and ku had everybody at the LOS for their super bowl?  You are absolutely fixated on some int's.  Get over it.  Hell, most of his int's were passes tipped by his own receivers..how do you know he didn't put it where he was supposed to but the receiver did not run the proper route?  How do you know?

Get over it.  There are not many QB's in the NCAA who can make some of the throws Freeman is capable of making.  He will get more consistent and idiots like you will go into hiding.

Why did he have only 6 TD's?  I don't know...probably because we ran the ball once we got into the redzone because Prince is conservative when he has a chance to kick a FG and we had a MASH unit for receivers.  Why did he throw 15 int's?  Because he was a f-ng freshman w/ a lot on his plate.  Get over it.

Freeman is the most talented QB in the Big 12 and if he can get any kind of OL play he will dominate.  He did in stretches last season but you seem to forget that.

Hell, even though he was handcuffed he still managed to throw for 250 on the birds...how he did that I don't know given he had nothing in the way of receivers and Mangino sent people into the backfield every play.

Goodness. I could just see the veins bulging out of your head as you typed that.  I think that you're having a tough time believing what you're typing.  I sense a bit of worry about Freeman from you.  It's okay to admit it.  Freeman is the most talented  QB in the Big 12?  Wow.  You do realize the national freshman of the year plays QB in the same conference?  But I will look for him to "dominate" (your words) this year.

[fatty fat fat]

ku fans - "BUT we beat you guys!!! OMG!"

KSU fans - "Really don't care much for that game. It's just ku"


 

[catzacker]

Big 12 passing stats....Could someone please point out (a) the true freshman on the list and (b) the ku QB on the list.  TIA

PASSING AVG/GAME        Team Cl  G Att Cmp Int  Pct.  Yds TD Avg/G
 ------------------------------------------------------------------
 1. Harrell, Graham..... TTU  SO  8 385 259   8  67.3 2943 25 367.9
 2. Daniel, Chase....... MU   SO  8 281 181   8  64.4 2177 17 272.1
 3. Bell, Shawn......... BU   SR  6 212 128   6  60.4 1511 12 251.8
 4. Taylor, Zac......... NU   SR  8 226 133   2  58.8 1917 16 239.6
 5. Meyer,Bret.......... ISU  JR  8 268 141  10  52.6 1634  7 204.2
 6. Freeman, Josh....... KSU  FR  8 235 127  12  54.0 1633  6 204.1
 7. McCoy, Colt......... UT   FR  8 204 140   6  68.6 1628 19 203.5
 8. McGee, Stephen...... TAMU SO  8 197 115   2  58.4 1298  5 162.2
 9. Reid,Bobby.......... OSU  SO  8 165  92   7  55.8 1255 13 156.9
 10.Thompson, Paul...... OU   SR  8 172 105   4  61.0 1239 10 154.9

[michigancat]

I'm going to miss Hox.

[Shout it out loud]

I'm going to miss Hox.

2 more weeks for BMW
1 month for Sandman

[cireksu]

hox totally pussed out.