Date: 28/08/25 - 11:51 AM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Royals go 5-4 on road trip from Hell  (Read 5055 times)

July 23, 2007, 02:12:53 PM
Reply #30

J Rake

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There is no statistically valid evidence that "clutch" hitting exists.  None.

Rusty, you're reaching here. A Yanks message board from 2006? Just to make a point? Look, I'm not trying to get in a right/wrong battle. I never asked you to agree with me. But pressure exists in sports. It's there. To say it isn't, and to say every player feels x amount of pressure in every at-bat, is lunacy. But again, that's my opinion.

And isn't pressure one of the great things about sports? I mean, isn't it kind of cool to see a guy like Bill Cowher win a Super Bowl after making it to six AFC Championship Games? It took him six tries, yes, but he finally figured it out. You keep putting yourself in position to win, and eventually you do. He learned from all those experiences. Good for him. The Royals playing a meaningless game in mid-July in no way simulates October baseball.

But baseball has had a laundry list of players who have routinely come up clutch in big situations. I grew up watching Paul O'Neill and Tino Martinez on some of those great Yanks teams in the 90's ... and you just KNEW they'd come up big when they needed to. Do they always? No. But either did Jordan. Or Jerry West. Or Tiger Woods. Or Tom Brady.

Nobody is perfect in the clutch. Some are better than others -- not only players, but teams, too.

July 23, 2007, 02:15:13 PM
Reply #31

kougar24

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But pressure exists in sports. It's there. To say it isn't, and to say every player feels x amount of pressure in every at-bat, is lunacy. But again, that's my opinion.

Nah, that's a fact.

July 23, 2007, 02:21:18 PM
Reply #32

michigancat

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Rusty, you're reaching here. A Yanks message board from 2006? Just to make a point? Look, I'm not trying to get in a right/wrong battle. I never asked you to agree with me. But pressure exists in sports. It's there. To say it isn't, and to say every player feels x amount of pressure in every at-bat, is lunacy. But again, that's my opinion.

I'm not disputing that pressure exists, I'm just saying the effects of pressure are statistically irrelevant.

The cream always rises to the crop.

http://www.baseball1.com/bb-data/grabiner/fullclutch.html

July 23, 2007, 02:24:55 PM
Reply #33

Kat Kid

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Rake/Kougs

read Bill James or look at some "clutch" hitters splits over a career.

Clutch hitting doesn't exist.  Pressure is so undefinable that to discuss it in terms of the quantifiable effect on numbers or constructing patterns of failure is pretty much impossible.  Feel free to point me to any sort of statistics to back up what you're saying.

Kougs:  high school anecdotes about free throws don't count.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

July 23, 2007, 02:31:54 PM
Reply #34

J Rake

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Hey, uh, it's late July and people actually care enough to discuss the Royals. Maybe there has been some progress. I take back (almost) everything I've said.  :D

Kat Kid: regarding Bill James, I have read some of his stuff before (not year-by-year, I'm not really a numbers guy) ... and find him to be interesting. And while I'd have to concede what you are saying about clutch hitting, since nothing I could say would be backed by anything, I do think that some players give themselves better opportunities to succeed in clutch situations. Some guys have better control over their emotions, bodies, etc. Some simply rely on experience. That stuff, I don't think, is really testable. But maybe I'm wrong?

July 23, 2007, 02:35:13 PM
Reply #35

Kat Kid

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Hey, uh, it's late July and people actually care enough to discuss the Royals. Maybe there has been some progress. I take back (almost) everything I've said.  :D

Kat Kid: regarding Bill James, I have read some of his stuff before (not year-by-year, I'm not really a numbers guy) ... and find him to be interesting. And while I'd have to concede what you are saying about clutch hitting, since nothing I could say would be backed by anything, I do think that some players give themselves better opportunities to succeed in clutch situations. Some guys have better control over their emotions, bodies, etc. Some simply rely on experience. That stuff, I don't think, is really testable. But maybe I'm wrong?

I agree with you.  The argument is that those same guys that have better control over their emotions etc. tend to be more successful overall.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

July 23, 2007, 02:41:27 PM
Reply #36

kougar24

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KK: I never said anything about the pressure being quantifiable.

July 23, 2007, 03:53:32 PM
Reply #37

kougar24

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ESPN link: Royal uprising

Anyone have Insider? Please post full blog thingy here.

July 23, 2007, 04:36:15 PM
Reply #38

catsfan20012002

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The Royals are still miles away from where they want to be, but they are moving ahead, bit by bit. "Brick by brick," as general manager Dayton Moore said on Sunday. The Royals went into Detroit for three days and won two games, and if you've seen the Tigers play in the last month, you know this is no small feat.

The Royals started their season 21-38, but have won 22 of their 38 games since then, climbing into a tie with the White Sox at the bottom of the AL Central. Billy Butler has moved into the middle of their lineup and is doing what injuries prevented Mike Sweeney from doing the last few years, giving the Royals a steady run producer. The bullpen has improved dramatically, Gil Meche has earned every bit of his salary, the lineup is deepening.

So Moore has a difficult quandary on his hands this week. The Royals have several of the most marketable players available in what is a poor trade market -- closer Octavio Dotel, veteran outfielder Reggie Sanders (who is 3-for-11 since coming off the disabled list), and second baseman Mark Grudzielanek, he of the .300 batting average.

For the organization that has had one winning season since 1993, and hasn't appeared in the playoffs in more than two decades, it would mean a lot for the Royals to show progress in the standings. It would mean a lot for Kansas City to approach .500, to finish ahead of the White Sox in the standings. It would mean a lot to the players. You could make an argument that Moore should keep his team together and continue to try to win.

But it would also help the Royals, moving forward, to get better players, to improve the team for future seasons, to get good young prospects in return for Dotel, for Sanders, for Grudzielanek.

"We've got to find a balance," said Moore. "We've got to be open-minded about getting any player -- or players -- back [in trades] that we feel can help us long term.

"But we've got to learn to win, too, and we've been saying that since Day 1. ... The only way you learn how to win is by being in games late."

And as the bullpen has improved, with Joakim Soria and Zack Greinke working in middle relief and Dotel serving as the closer, Kansas City has been involved in more games decided in the late innings -- an opportunity for hitters to have at-bats with the Royals just ahead, or maybe a run behind, or with the score tied. "Those situations require a higher level of concentration," Moore said, "and the hitters are getting a chance to be in those situations."

But Moore must think big-picture. "And if we can get pieces [in a trade] that can help us win a championship, that's important," he said.

So it may be that in the next eight days, Moore will trade Dotel, who has been pitching in the lower half of the strike zone more than he did in his days as a closer with the Astros and Athletics; this has helped him improve his performance against left-handed hitters. In the past, lefties hammered the right-handed Dotel, especially for power, but this year, lefties and righties have an identical .378 slugging percentage against him.

The Red Sox are considering adding Sanders or Oakland's Bobby Kielty and dumping Wily Mo Pena, and while the Royals might not get a good prospect for Sanders, they might save some money.

Grudzielanek might make sense for a team like the Mets, in the aftermath of Jose Valentin's devastating injury, but Moore would have a difficult decision: Grudzielanek has been the leader of the Royals, a veteran who has been an immense help to Tony Pena Jr. And once Grudzielanek hits 500 plate appearances, his $4 million option for 2008 vests, a nice deal for the second baseman, a good short-term contract for a productive player on the Royals.

Kansas City may have to be overwhelmed to deal Grudzielanek, because he has been an essential part of the turnaround that has begun to take place with the Royals.

Moore was in the middle of a long-distance run as he talked, his words coming haltingly between breaths. He and the Royals have miles to go, a journey that will help define the moves he makes, or does not make, in the next eight days.

Sunday's victory was a statement win for the Royals, who took the series from the Tigers. Mark Grudzielanek has been raking.

July 23, 2007, 05:08:29 PM
Reply #39

fatty fat fat

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It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

July 23, 2007, 05:10:44 PM
Reply #40

WorldWideBalla21

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Royals will be a playoff team in two years.

July 23, 2007, 06:09:11 PM
Reply #41

catsfan20012002

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July 24, 2007, 12:55:24 PM
Reply #42

Kat Kid

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Royals will be a playoff team in two years.

Will make 3 figure bet with you on that.
ksufanscopycat my friends.

July 24, 2007, 04:34:23 PM
Reply #43

jeffy

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Royals will be a playoff team in two years.

Will make 3 figure bet with you on that.

That includes the decimal places, doesn't it?

July 24, 2007, 07:19:09 PM
Reply #44

Pett

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    Hey, basketball!!!
hahaha. yankees owning royals once again in the first inning.....


in other news: I HATE MLB!!!!  :mad: