Author Topic: Excellent topic time: Best teams in big 12 north history? (Read 767 times)

fatty fat fat · July 15, 2007, 04:52:50 PM

Give me your top 10 (i went all the way to 20 just to show off).

Mine

1)1997 Nebraska

2)1996 Nebraska

3)1998 Kansas State

4)2002 Kansas State

5)2000 Nebraska

6)2003 Kansas State

7)1999 Nebraska

8)1999 Kansas State

9)2001 Nebraska

10)2001 Colorado

11)2000 Kansas State

12)1997 Kansas State

13)1998 Missouri

14) 2002 Colorado

15) 2003 Nebraska

16) 2006 Nebraska

17) 1996 Colorado

18) 1998 Nebraska

19) 1998 Colorado

20) 2005 Iowa State

Top 5:
Nebraska 3
Kansas State 2

Top 10:
Nebraska: 5
Kansas State: 4
Colorado: 1

Overall:
Nebraska: 8
Kansas State: 6
Colorado: 4
Iowa State: 1
Missouri: 1
Kansas: None (0)

kst8cat · July 15, 2007, 05:08:32 PM

Nice topic. Good list.

1998 Missouri? A little overrated.

Also, 2000 KSU > 2000 Nebraska

tmramrod91 · July 15, 2007, 05:15:51 PM

Its amazing how many north championships CU won, yet they never had even close to a national title caliber team.

fatty fat fat · July 15, 2007, 05:28:10 PM

Quote from: tmramrod91 on July 15, 2007, 05:15:51 PM

Its amazing how many north championships CU won, yet they never had even close to a national title caliber team.

qft. 2001 and 2002 were pretty good tho.

Pike · July 15, 2007, 05:37:18 PM

Iowa State 2005?

kst8cat · July 15, 2007, 05:45:34 PM

Quote from: tmramrod91 on July 15, 2007, 05:15:51 PM

Its amazing how many north championships CU won, yet they never had even close to a national title caliber team.

CU won by default because the North sucked so bad in 2004 and 2005. The won the north with a 4-4 conference record, right?

I would have to say that 1997 Missouri was better than 1998 Missouri because they were a kicked ball in the endzone away from beating Nebraska which is #1 on the list. Also, they attended the Holiday Bowl in 1997 and a crappy bowl in 1998. Identical conference records at 5-3 both years.

1996 Colorado I think should be higher. A 7-1 conference record and 10-2 overall with a bowl win.
Only conference loss would have been to Nebraska which is #2 on your list.

1999 Nebraska > 2000 Nebraska due to better conference record, overall record, higher YE ranking at #3, and better bowl.

2005 ISU should not be on the list with a 4-4 conference record. Heck, 2000 ISU at least had a 5-3 conference record.

The Manhatter · July 15, 2007, 05:46:39 PM

I wouldn't put '96 Nebraska over '98 KSU...no way. That Nebraska team was actually shut out by Arizona State...yes, I know ASU was damn good that year but goose egg? No North team that put an egg on the scoreboard was better than '98 KSU.

flip a coin between '02 KSU and '96 Nebraska.

waks · July 15, 2007, 05:53:49 PM

Quote from: kst8cat on July 15, 2007, 05:45:34 PM

Quote from: tmramrod91 on July 15, 2007, 05:15:51 PM
Its amazing how many north championships CU won, yet they never had even close to a national title caliber team.

CU won by default because the North sucked so bad in 2004 and 2005. The won the north with a 4-4 conference record, right?

I would have to say that 1997 Missouri was better than 1998 Missouri because they were a kicked ball in the endzone away from beating Nebraska which is #1 on the list. Also, they attended the Holiday Bowl in 1997 and a crappy bowl in 1998. Identical conference records at 5-3 both years.

1996 Colorado I think should be higher. A 7-1 conference record and 10-2 overall with a bowl win.
Only conference loss would have been to Nebraska which is #2 on your list.

1999 Nebraska > 2000 Nebraska due to better conference record, overall record, higher YE ranking at #3, and better bowl.

2005 ISU should not be on the list with a 4-4 conference record. Heck, 2000 ISU at least had a 5-3 conference record.

Damn. Take it easy on Fatty, will you?

fatty fat fat · July 15, 2007, 05:55:04 PM

Everything during 1996 is very hazy for me. I was 9.

kst8cat · July 15, 2007, 06:05:10 PM

Quote from: fatty fat fat on July 15, 2007, 05:55:04 PM

Everything during 1996 is very hazy for me. I was 9.

Hey, wait! What about 1996 K-State? If we are including a bunch of 4-4 and 5-3 teams in the top 20, then 1996 K-State should be in there somewhere due to a 6-2 conference record and 9-3 overall. Kavenaugh wasn't THAT bad, for cryin out loud.

Also, 1998 Colorado is a little shaky to include due to a 4-4 conference record. However, they did play tough and had an 8-4 overall mark with a bowl win.

kst8cat · July 15, 2007, 06:07:24 PM

Quote from: waks on July 15, 2007, 05:53:49 PM

Quote from: kst8cat on July 15, 2007, 05:45:34 PM
Quote from: tmramrod91 on July 15, 2007, 05:15:51 PM
Its amazing how many north championships CU won, yet they never had even close to a national title caliber team.

CU won by default because the North sucked so bad in 2004 and 2005. The won the north with a 4-4 conference record, right?

I would have to say that 1997 Missouri was better than 1998 Missouri because they were a kicked ball in the endzone away from beating Nebraska which is #1 on the list. Also, they attended the Holiday Bowl in 1997 and a crappy bowl in 1998. Identical conference records at 5-3 both years.

1996 Colorado I think should be higher. A 7-1 conference record and 10-2 overall with a bowl win.
Only conference loss would have been to Nebraska which is #2 on your list.

1999 Nebraska > 2000 Nebraska due to better conference record, overall record, higher YE ranking at #3, and better bowl.

2005 ISU should not be on the list with a 4-4 conference record. Heck, 2000 ISU at least had a 5-3 conference record.

Damn. Take it easy on Fatty, will you?

Fatty can take it like a man, I'm sure. Besides, I'm only a cub.

The Manhatter · July 15, 2007, 06:10:55 PM

I would take '99 Nebraska over both '00 Nebraska and '03 KSU. That '99 Nebraska was REALLY good..they just f'ed themselves at Texas w/ turnovers. They rolled Tejas in total yardage but lost because they kept turning it over in the redzone. They got revenge on the horns in the Big 12 title game and steamrolled Tennessee in the fiesta bowl.

And that was one of Nebraska's better defenses they've had...it was REALLY good.

'99 Nebraska was prolly top 3.

1) '97 Nebraska
2) between '98 KSU and '99 Nebraska IMO
4) '02 KSU or '96 Nebraska
6) '00 NU

something like that makes more sense to me.

fatty fat fat · July 15, 2007, 06:13:10 PM

Quote from: kst8cat on July 15, 2007, 06:05:10 PM

Quote from: fatty fat fat on July 15, 2007, 05:55:04 PM
Everything during 1996 is very hazy for me. I was 9.

Hey, wait! What about 1996 K-State? If we are including a bunch of 4-4 and 5-3 teams in the top 20, then 1996 K-State should be in there somewhere due to a 6-2 conference record and 9-3 overall. Kavenaugh wasn't THAT bad, for cryin out loud.

Also, 1998 Colorado is a little shaky to include due to a 4-4 conference record. However, they did play tough and had an 8-4 overall mark with a bowl win.

I'm also taking into account pf and pg. ISU was very good in that during 2005. Their 4 losses were vs NU (OT), ku (OT), MU (3pts), Baylor (ok, crap)

Good point. I guess I was just trying my hardest to include ISU. Again, my knowledge of 1996 is very hazy. KSU wasn't that great in 1996, but you are right, they were better than ISU 2005/CU 1998 and probably MU 1998.

The north was a beast in 1998.

fatty fat fat · July 15, 2007, 06:14:19 PM

Quote from: The Manhatter on July 15, 2007, 06:10:55 PM

I would take '99 Nebraska over both '00 Nebraska and '03 KSU. That '99 Nebraska was REALLY good..they just f'ed themselves at Texas w/ turnovers. They rolled Tejas in total yardage but lost because they kept turning it over in the redzone. They got revenge on the horns in the Big 12 title game and steamrolled Tennessee in the fiesta bowl.

And that was one of Nebraska's better defenses they've had...it was REALLY good.

'99 Nebraska was prolly top 3.

1) '97 Nebraska
2) between '98 KSU and '99 Nebraska IMO
4) '02 KSU or '96 Nebraska
6) '00 NU

something like that makes more sense to me.

I disagree as 99 NU was close to losing @ku and @CU. They were awful away from Lincoln. NU 00' had a sick offense, but just had two really realy tough games. @OU and @KSU in 2000 is brutal.

kst8cat · July 15, 2007, 07:36:53 PM

OK, fatty. Here is my top 20 rankings along with conference record, overall record, and final ranking. If there are two rankings, first is Coaches Poll ranking and second is the AP ranking. If there is only one final ranking, it is the AP due to my being too lazy to find the final coaches poll ranking. Conference records do not include CCG results, but the overall records do.

1) 1997 NU 8-0; 12-0; 1/2
2) 1998 KSU 8-0; 11-2; 9/10
3) 1999 NU 7-1; 11-1; 3/3
4) 1996 NU 8-0; 11-2; 6
5) 1997 KSU 7-1; 11-1; 7/8
6) 1999 KSU 7-1; 11-1; 6/6
7) 1996 CU 7-1; 10-2; 8
8. 2000 KSU 6-2; 11-3; 8/9
9) 2000 NU 6-2; 10-2; 8
10) 2002 KSU 6-2; 11-2; 6/7
11) 2001 CU 7-1; 10-3; 9
12) 2001 NU 7-1; 11-2; 8
13) 2003 KSU 6-2; 11-4; 13/13
14) 2002 CU 7-1; 9-5; 20
15) 1996 KSU 6-2; 9-3; 17/17
16) 1998 NU 5-3; 9-4; 19
17) 2006 NU 6-2; 9-5; N/A
18) 2003 NU 5-3; 10-3; 19
19) 1997 MU 5-3; 7-5; 23
20) 2000 ISU 5-3; 9-3; 25

I believe the only team I left off with a final ranking was 1998 MU at #21. So I guess you could make the case they deserve to be there rather than 2000 ISU. But I wanted to be nice to ISU since they did actually finish ranked that year. The only unranked team to make the list was 2006 NU. They were ranked even after losing the CCG but dropped out due to their tough bowl game.

So I axed 98 Colorado, 98 Missouri, and 05 ISU and added 96 KSU, 97 Missouri, and 00 ISU. Plus a lot of shifting in the top 10.

The Manhatter · July 15, 2007, 07:43:30 PM

Quote from: fatty fat fat on July 15, 2007, 06:14:19 PM

Quote from: The Manhatter on July 15, 2007, 06:10:55 PM
I would take '99 Nebraska over both '00 Nebraska and '03 KSU. That '99 Nebraska was REALLY good..they just f'ed themselves at Texas w/ turnovers. They rolled Tejas in total yardage but lost because they kept turning it over in the redzone. They got revenge on the horns in the Big 12 title game and steamrolled Tennessee in the fiesta bowl.

And that was one of Nebraska's better defenses they've had...it was REALLY good.

'99 Nebraska was prolly top 3.

1) '97 Nebraska
2) between '98 KSU and '99 Nebraska IMO
4) '02 KSU or '96 Nebraska
6) '00 NU

something like that makes more sense to me.

I disagree as 99 NU was close to losing @ku and @CU. They were awful away from Lincoln. NU 00' had a sick offense, but just had two really realy tough games. @OU and @KSU in 2000 is brutal.

I really don't care how they did at ku. At CU they were blowing CU away..and then CU did one of their typical pull something out of their arse to make it close.

The fact is that Nebraska team beat the hell out of Tejas in the Big 12 title game and beat Tennessee like a drum. A Tennessee team that was loaded and coming off their national title year and w/ the same QB. I still remember their QB hitting Dante' Stallworth for a fairly long TD in that game and Stallworth celebrating like they were winning the super bowl...I think they were down 4 TD's.

fatty fat fat · July 15, 2007, 07:45:45 PM

Quote from: kst8cat on July 15, 2007, 07:36:53 PM

OK, fatty. Here is my top 20 rankings along with conference record, overall record, and final ranking. If there are two rankings, first is Coaches Poll ranking and second is the AP ranking. If there is only one final ranking, it is the AP due to my being too lazy to find the final coaches poll ranking. Conference records do not include CCG results, but the overall records do.

1) 1997 NU 8-0; 12-0; 1/2
2) 1998 KSU 8-0; 11-2; 9/10
3) 1999 NU 7-1; 11-1; 3/3
4) 1996 NU 8-0; 11-2; 6
5) 1997 KSU 7-1; 11-1; 7/8
6) 1999 KSU 7-1; 11-1; 6/6
7) 1996 CU 7-1; 10-2; 8
8. 2000 KSU 6-2; 11-3; 8/9
9) 2000 NU 6-2; 10-2; 8
10) 2002 KSU 6-2; 11-2; 6/7
11) 2001 CU 7-1; 10-3; 9
12) 2001 NU 7-1; 11-2; 8
13) 2003 KSU 6-2; 11-4; 13/13
14) 2002 CU 7-1; 9-5; 20
15) 1996 KSU 6-2; 9-3; 17/17
16) 1998 NU 5-3; 9-4; 19
17) 2006 NU 6-2; 9-5; N/A
18) 2003 NU 5-3; 10-3; 19
19) 1997 MU 5-3; 7-5; 23
20) 2000 ISU 5-3; 9-3; 25

I believe the only team I left off with a final ranking was 1998 MU at #21. So I guess you could make the case they deserve to be there rather than 2000 ISU. But I wanted to be nice to ISU since they did actually finish ranked that year. The only unranked team to make the list was 2006 NU. They were ranked even after losing the CCG but dropped out due to their tough bowl game.

So I axed 98 Colorado, 98 Missouri, and 05 ISU and added 96 KSU, 97 Missouri, and 00 ISU. Plus a lot of shifting in the top 10.

We have different systems here. I'm going by a "power ranking" type of deal, you are using a "what they accomplished" barometer. We should look up the sagarins, and see where they stand.

kst8cat · July 15, 2007, 08:05:19 PM

We also have a difference of opinion on the relative strengths of the 1997 and 1999 KSU teams vs. the 2002 and 2003 teams. To quote Ronald Reagan, I think it might be due to your youth and inexperience.

You could probably convince me to put the 2002 team a little higher, though. Perhaps up to the 8 spot.

mjrod · July 15, 2007, 08:39:51 PM

Quote from: The Manhatter on July 15, 2007, 07:43:30 PM

Quote from: fatty fat fat on July 15, 2007, 06:14:19 PM
Quote from: The Manhatter on July 15, 2007, 06:10:55 PM
I would take '99 Nebraska over both '00 Nebraska and '03 KSU. That '99 Nebraska was REALLY good..they just f'ed themselves at Texas w/ turnovers. They rolled Tejas in total yardage but lost because they kept turning it over in the redzone. They got revenge on the horns in the Big 12 title game and steamrolled Tennessee in the fiesta bowl.

And that was one of Nebraska's better defenses they've had...it was REALLY good.

'99 Nebraska was prolly top 3.

1) '97 Nebraska
2) between '98 KSU and '99 Nebraska IMO
4) '02 KSU or '96 Nebraska
6) '00 NU

something like that makes more sense to me.

I disagree as 99 NU was close to losing @ku and @CU. They were awful away from Lincoln. NU 00' had a sick offense, but just had two really realy tough games. @OU and @KSU in 2000 is brutal.

I really don't care how they did at ku. At CU they were blowing CU away..and then CU did one of their typical pull something out of their arse to make it close.

The fact is that Nebraska team beat the hell out of Tejas in the Big 12 title game and beat Tennessee like a drum. A Tennessee team that was loaded and coming off their national title year and w/ the same QB. I still remember their QB hitting Dante' Stallworth for a fairly long TD in that game and Stallworth celebrating like they were winning the super bowl...I think they were down 4 TD's.

I was at that game. Tennessee couldn't do anything. Nebraska just ran it the entire second half down Tennessee's throat. 321 Rushing Yards in that game. Nebraska could have played in the NC game, and would have probably won it.

The Manhatter · July 15, 2007, 09:00:10 PM

to figure out the best in the North I'd rank each team w/ in their best teams.

KSU
1998
2002
1997 (IMO better than '99 due to OL and Bishop)
1999
2000
2003

Nebraska
1997
1999
2000
1996
2001
1998

CU
2001
2002
1996

ISU
2005
2000

Mizzou
1998
2007

Kansas
None

And go from there.

kst8cat · July 15, 2007, 09:12:25 PM

Quote from: The Manhatter on July 15, 2007, 09:00:10 PM

to figure out the best in the North I'd rank each team w/ in their best teams.

KSU
1998
2002
1997 (IMO better than '99 due to OL and Bishop)
1999
2000
2003

Nebraska
1997
1999
2000
1996
2001
1998

CU
2001
2002
1996

ISU
2005
2000

Mizzou
1998
2007

Kansas
None

And go from there.

How did 2007 Missouri do? I guess I'm not up to date on that one.