'08 Recruiting

[FBWillie]

You're right.  .0336 of the time you can be successful with recruits that are not ranked in the top 25.

[fb]

Including the MAC, CUSA, and and Sun Belt distort your calculations. 

You guys win.  We need more of this.

2002-#14
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2002&School=34

2004-#18
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2004&School=34

Those classes were full of 3 and 4 star kids that sucked.

[fb]

tcu and Wisconsin can be included too.  Maybe more if I cared to really put much effort into it.

[michigancat]

Including the MAC, CUSA, and and Sun Belt distort your calculations. 

You guys win.  We need more of this.

2002-#14
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2002&School=34

2004-#18
http://kansasstate.rivals.com/commitlist.asp?Year=2004&School=34

Those classes were full of 3 and 4 star kids that sucked.

To be fair, the two stars sucked a lot harder.

Jerry Hill   DB      5-11   165   4.4   -       Fort Lauderdale, FL
Louis Lavender   DB      6-0   180   4.5   -       Los Angeles, CA
Justin Mckinney   DB      5-11   175   4.52   -       Sanford, FL
Dylan Meier   ATH      6-2   205   4.58   -       Pittsburg, KS
Marcus Watts   DB      6-2   175   4.58   -       Hays, KS
Ryan Schmidt   OL      6-5   293   4.78   5.3       Boca Raton, FL
Jordan Bedore   ATH      6-4   250   4.74   5.2       Goodland, KS
Vladimir Faustin   DE      6-3   235   4.7   5.2       Miami, FL
Lester Graham   LB      6-0   215   4.48   5.2       Fort Pierce, FL
Romunn Grigsby   WR      6-4   185   4.5   5.2       Clayton, OH
Brad Rooker   OL      6-7   260   4.85   5.2       Omaha, NE
Brett Alstatt   RB      6-4   220   4.6   5.1      Hays, KS
Justin D'Arcy   OL      6-6   305   5.1   -       Aptos, CA
Surrell Davis   DB      6-0   200   4.45   -       San Mateo, CA

[fb]

I'm willing to say I Watts, Schmidt (good player just didn't work here with Prince that is now at one of those previously mentioned teams-WV), Bedore, McKinney, and Rooker are all servicable at a minimum.  That is 5/14 (35.7%).  Again I am too lazy to look but what % of the 3, 4, and 5 star kids were at least servicable?

[michigancat]

Randy Jordan   DB      6-2   175   4.5   -       Bakersfield, CA
Donnie Anders   RB      5-10   175   4.4   -       Salina, KS
Brandon Archer   LB      6-2   220   4.6   -       St. Paul, MN
Jermaine Berry   DT      5-11   290   4.69   -       El Dorado, KS
Jeromey Clary   OL      6-8   290   5.1   -       Arlington, TX
Quintin Echols   DT      6-2   300   5   -       Fort Worth, TX
Kevin Huntley   DE      6-6   255   4.64   -       Valley Forge, PA
Ryan Lilja   OL      6-3   300   5.2   -       Coffeyville, KS
Logan Robinson   OL      6-9   310   5.3   -       Agra, KS
James Terry   WR      6-5   185   4.4   -       El Dorado, KS
Tearrius George   DT      6-4   265   5.2   -       Valley Glen, CA
Maurice Porter   DB      6-1   190   4.48   -       San Francisco, CA
Kyle Williams   DB      6-1   190   4.4   -       Coriscana, TX
Parrish Fisher   RB      5-9   204   4.4   5.7      Richardson, TX
Cedric Wilson   ATH      6-1   175   4.44   5.6       Fort Pierce, FL
Allan Evridge   QB      6-1   205   4.5   5.5      Papillion, NE
John Hafferty   OL      6-3   305   4.87   5.5      Alpharetta, GA
Caleb Handy   OL      6-2   300   5.17   5.5      Conway Springs, KS
Gerard Spexarth   OL      6-6   301   5.3   5.5      Andale, KS
Yamon Figurs   WR      6-0   180   4.4   -       Garden City, KS
Bret Jones   DB      6-1   195   4.5   -       San Francisco, CA

21/32 = 65.6%

God, what a stupid argument.

[asava]

that was an ultimate pwn if i have ever seen one. damn!

[fb]

My world after the numbers came out...


FWIW I have been critical to a degree on the 2 star kids.

[michigancat]

^FWIW, that wasn't necessarily directed to you, but to everyone who thinks just signing a bunch of lame two-stars is okay.

[KSU4ME]

Randy Jordan   DB      6-2   175   4.5   -       Bakersfield, CA
Donnie Anders   RB      5-10   175   4.4   -       Salina, KS
Brandon Archer   LB      6-2   220   4.6   -       St. Paul, MN
Jermaine Berry   DT      5-11   290   4.69   -       El Dorado, KS
Jeromey Clary   OL      6-8   290   5.1   -       Arlington, TX
Quintin Echols   DT      6-2   300   5   -       Fort Worth, TX
Kevin Huntley   DE      6-6   255   4.64   -       Valley Forge, PA
Ryan Lilja   OL      6-3   300   5.2   -       Coffeyville, KS
Logan Robinson   OL      6-9   310   5.3   -       Agra, KS
James Terry   WR      6-5   185   4.4   -       El Dorado, KS
Tearrius George   DT      6-4   265   5.2   -       Valley Glen, CA
Maurice Porter   DB      6-1   190   4.48   -       San Francisco, CA
Kyle Williams   DB      6-1   190   4.4   -       Coriscana, TX
Parrish Fisher   RB      5-9   204   4.4   5.7      Richardson, TX
Cedric Wilson   ATH      6-1   175   4.44   5.6       Fort Pierce, FL
Allan Evridge   QB      6-1   205   4.5   5.5      Papillion, NE
John Hafferty   OL      6-3   305   4.87   5.5      Alpharetta, GA
Caleb Handy   OL      6-2   300   5.17   5.5      Conway Springs, KS
Gerard Spexarth   OL      6-6   301   5.3   5.5      Andale, KS
Yamon Figurs   WR      6-0   180   4.4   -       Garden City, KS
Bret Jones   DB      6-1   195   4.5   -       San Francisco, CA

21/32 = 65.6%

God, what a stupid argument.

I agree with your point, it's dead on, but you don't have to fudge the numbers to make it.  There were a lot more 3/4 star busts in 02/04:

2002:
Andrew Bulman
John Cooper
John Beuthin
Brandon Grandberry
Thad Hedgpeth
Sean Lowe
Tony Madison
Rimmon McNeese
Noah Strozier
Hammond Thomas
Michael Weiner

You could also include Peni H and Dan Davis as five star busts from 2002.  And I would consider Maurice Mack as at least serviceable.   


2004:
Matt Boss
Nick Patton
Walter Hudson
Aaron Darks
Jesse Martinez

And Cedric Wilson was a two star signee out of JC in 2006.  So he kind of nets out the star argument.

[fb]

^FWIW, that wasn't necessarily directed to you, but to everyone who thinks just signing a bunch of lame two-stars is okay.

Got ya.  I agree completely that a bunch of 2 stars alone is not a good idea.  Sure rivals is clueless many times in terms of actually identifying talent.  However, they also use offer lists to steer them in directions.  If a kid is being offered by a bunch of Sun Belt teams, etc or service academy school only...or no one the we are likely getting a kid that probably is questionable.

It is even more worrisome when these kids have been to other camps and don't generate interest...especially from the UTEPs, Houstons, Rices, Air Forces of college football.

[sonofdaxjones]

So none of the current high school recruits committed to KSU will show the recruiting "experts" at Rivals that they are worthy of additional stars from the Rivals recruiting "experts" (all with years of D1 coaching experience)??    

[sonofdaxjones]

2002:
Andrew Bulman
John Cooper
John Beuthin
Brandon Grandberry
Thad Hedgpeth
Sean Lowe
Tony Madison
Rimmon McNeese
Noah Strozier
Hammond Thomas
Michael Weiner


Ah yes, I remember what a bunch of studs all those guys were going to be.   

[KSU4ME]

Bulman's BP was the best thing he ever contributed, and I have no idea how one Weiner could be so good, and the other suck.

Oh, wait.

Meier.

[michigancat]

I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

[fb]

Many of them were kids that the big hitters didn't target b/c they had academic and/or character concerns.  Janet and the big OL whose names slips my memory come to mind.

[FBWillie]

Sincerely,
Louisville, West Virginia, Rutgers, and Boise State

Including the MAC, CUSA, and and Sun Belt distort your calculations. 

Oh I get it, Our goal is to be like MAC, CUSA, SUN Belt teams and Flavor of the month teams.

Sorry, didn't realize that people don't care about National championships.  I'll lower my expectations to something that's easily obtainable so I can be happy about bragging about a Big 12 championship and crappy losses in 1 BCS bowl game every 10 years while simultaniously being happy with 8-10 win season's in a conferance with 1/3 of those teams that have atleast 1 National championship and not considered the upper echelon of that conferance.  I didn't realize that our goal was to be 3rd best in the Conferance and never have a National Championship to hang our hat on.  We should just accept the fact a National Championship is out of reach and when Huskers/Sooners/Longhorns throw their NC's in our face we'll just respond with 2003 (38-9),2003(35-7), & 2006(45-42).   I get this logic now; I'm clear!

[michigancat]

I'd actually be totally content with a North title every three or four years.

[catzacker]

I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

I get what you're saying, but would Freeman have really fit into Snyder's system?  Basically, recruiting sucked after the exodus of '98, 2* or otherwise.  

[michigancat]

I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

I get what you're saying, but would Freeman have really fit into Snyder's system?  Basically, recruiting sucked after the exodus of '98, 2* or otherwise. 

QFT, and Snyder made Brian Kavanaugh fit into his system, to the tune of a goddam Cotton Bowl.

Snyder could make anyone fit.  He actually said he messed up after he saw Josh practice.  On 810 with KK.

[catzacker]

I think Snyder just sucked at recruiting 4 and 5 star players.  The ones he targeted/were able to land were pretty much all misses, especially at the HS level.

Remember when he said he didn't bother recruiting Freeman?  LMAO

I get what you're saying, but would Freeman have really fit into Snyder's system?  Basically, recruiting sucked after the exodus of '98, 2* or otherwise. 

QFT, and Snyder made Brian Kavanaugh fit into his system, to the tune of a goddam Cotton Bowl.

Snyder could make anyone fit.  He actually said he messed up after he saw Josh practice.  On 810 with KK.

Interesting, for some reason I had not heard that before.  Although I think that it appeared that Snyder was fixated on the dual threat qb as everyone of his "drop back QB's" since Kavanaugh basically sucked pond water or got strange stomach viruses. 

[michigancat]

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0

[catzacker]

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0

On Between the Lines with that son of a bitch Kevin Keitzman.  He based this on spring and fall practices.

He said he didn't recruit Josh, but he pretty much blamed it on an assistant's evaluation.


Also said he and Ell have closure and that they hugged.

God, Snyder's assistants sucked. 

[Bookcat]

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0

On Between the Lines with that son of a bitch Kevin Keitzman.  He based this on spring and fall practices.

He said he didn't recruit Josh, but he pretty much blamed it on an assistant's evaluation.


Also said he and Ell have closure and that they hugged.

God, Snyder's assistants sucked. 

yes. and he wouldn't fire any of them and it was our program's downfall.

[catzacker]

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=2868.0

On Between the Lines with that son of a bitch Kevin Keitzman.  He based this on spring and fall practices.

He said he didn't recruit Josh, but he pretty much blamed it on an assistant's evaluation.


Also said he and Ell have closure and that they hugged.

God, Snyder's assistants sucked. 

yes. and he wouldn't fire any of them and it was our program's downfall.

Bill didn't exactly help them out either with his self-imposed recruiting restrictions.  Hell, Bill single-handedly convinced Chase Coffman to go to MU because he was so incredibly boring.

[catinthehat]

I hear people throwing out a bunch of teams that don't land high in the recruit rankings but do well anyway.  well, west virginia runds a system that is not heavily used, thus his recruits will generally get less attention.  Rutgers, well, one good year doesn't make you anything more than a one hit wonder as of now.  utah under meyer, mid major team, was good and was given the worst bcs conf champ to play, pitt, a team that nu beat that year.  As for Snyder, your not gonna land top 20 classes every year when you take a good amount of jucos, those guys don't get as accurately ranked as prep guys to.

to find the answer, ask yourself this question.  first, decide what level you want ksu to consistantly be at.  say you want them to bew a top 15 team.  asl yourself this.  how many teams from bcs conferances that run a pro system are consistantly in the top 15 without consistantly recruiting well.  Compile your answers and take that out of about 117.  those are your odds.

and btw, NU only has had 1 top 10 class under cally.  his transition is one of the bigger ones in the history of college football so it took him 2 years to do something nu hasn't done since 1999, which is win the north.

[catzacker]

I hear people throwing out a bunch of teams that don't land high in the recruit rankings but do well anyway.  well, west virginia runds a system that is not heavily used, thus his recruits will generally get less attention.  Rutgers, well, one good year doesn't make you anything more than a one hit wonder as of now.  utah under meyer, mid major team, was good and was given the worst bcs conf champ to play, pitt, a team that nu beat that year.  As for Snyder, your not gonna land top 20 classes every year when you take a good amount of jucos, those guys don't get as accurately ranked as prep guys to.

to find the answer, ask yourself this question.  first, decide what level you want ksu to consistantly be at.  say you want them to bew a top 15 team.  asl yourself this.  how many teams from bcs conferances that run a pro system are consistantly in the top 15 without consistantly recruiting well.  Compile your answers and take that out of about 117.  those are your odds.

and btw, NU only has had 1 top 10 class under cally.  his transition is one of the bigger ones in the history of college football so it took him 2 years to do something nu hasn't done since 1999, which is win the north.

cop out

[catinthehat]

didn't cop anything out.  after 2 years into one of the biggest transitions ever we won the diivision, what exactly am I copping out?

[WildCatzPhreak]

Winning the north isn't exactly a good way to compare achievements of the current team to past teams.

Total wins and Big XII/National Championship appearances are.

When does Callahan break 10 wins?  When does he win the Big XII?  When does he get Nebraska back to a national championship game?

Solich was able to do all those things.  He won at least ten games per season regularly(even the season he was fired.)  He won the Big XII in 1999.  He got the huskers back to a national championship game in 2001.

Despite great recruiting, Callahan has continued to underachieve.  He's also broken many streaks that spanned over several different past coaches at NU(consecutive bowl games, ku, etc.)  He's only finished in the top 25 once, and never finished in the top 20.  He still has no victories over either a top 5 or even top 10 team.  And despite the addition of an entire game and playing in the weakest division in BCS football(The Big XII north,) Callahan still hasn't won 10 games.

FWIW, I do think he'll eventually win ten games, but only due to playing in the current Big XII north (with no ranked teams) and the addition of an extra game (basically a free win in Lincoln every year to give him a handicap.)  He won't ever win the Big XII, and definitely won't ever get NU back to the national championship game.



Now think.  Would Solich have won the north by now considering how weak the north division is?  'DUH.  And he'd have kept the streaks in tact as well as gathering more total wins.


It's a joke how husker fans magically think they're making progress and are "coming back."  Not even close.  They're not even at the level of where they were when they fired their last coach.

[FBWillie]

I hear people throwing out a bunch of teams that don't land high in the recruit rankings but do well anyway.  well, west virginia runds a system that is not heavily used, thus his recruits will generally get less attention.  Rutgers, well, one good year doesn't make you anything more than a one hit wonder as of now.  utah under meyer, mid major team, was good and was given the worst bcs conf champ to play, pitt, a team that nu beat that year.  As for Snyder, your not gonna land top 20 classes every year when you take a good amount of jucos, those guys don't get as accurately ranked as prep guys to.

to find the answer, ask yourself this question.  first, decide what level you want ksu to consistantly be at.  say you want them to bew a top 15 team.  asl yourself this.  how many teams from bcs conferances that run a pro system are consistantly in the top 15 without consistantly recruiting well.  Compile your answers and take that out of about 117.  those are your odds.

and btw, NU only has had 1 top 10 class under cally.  his transition is one of the bigger ones in the history of college football so it took him 2 years to do something nu hasn't done since 1999, which is win the north.

Wow, What an original thought.  jackass.