Mizzou outlook?

[S. Parker]

Where do you guys see Mizzou going in football the next few years? I ask because I have mixed feelings and some of their fans seem to be getting cocky lately. In general, I don't have a very good feel for their fans, football program, or school.

I glanced at their non-conference schedule from the last few years and it doesn't appear overly challenging, and I think it would be fair to say they struggle when their conference schedule arrives. However, they do seem to have a good offense and good qb in Daniel.

Thoughts? BCS? Blunder? Somewhere in between?

[fatty fat fat]

What is their average star ranking from the last 4 years? That should give you a 100% perfect outlook for the tigers. 

[konofo]

We really need to recruit an MU poster or two to pick on.

Only three different schools have ever represented the North in the conference championship, and my read is that this will not change in the next three years.

kono

[S. Parker]

What is their average star ranking from the last 4 years? That should give you a 100% perfect outlook for the tigers. 

Are you being serious, or is that a sarcastic shot at the emphasis many Nebraska fans place on recruiting stars?

[konofo]

a sarcastic shot at the emphasis many Nebraska fans KSUFans posters place on recruiting stars?

I think this is the more likely scenario.

kono

[Poopley]

Are you being serious, or is that a sarcastic shot at the emphasis many Nebraska fans place on recruiting stars?

hmm, i wonder 

[S. Parker]

Are you being serious, or is that a sarcastic shot at the emphasis many Nebraska fans place on recruiting stars?

hmm, i wonder 

I did actually. I suck at guessing intent on message boards.

[The Manhatter]

Mizzou is an "up & coming" team per magazines and idiots ever since Pinkel and Brad arrived.  Last year they had a top 10 offense and a lot of vets on defense...and still went 4-4 in an average North division.

Does that answer your question?  It was year 6 for Pinkel and 4-4 is the best he's done in conference play.

Consider some of these facts and draw your own conclusions.  Mizzou was supposed to have arrived every year since '03....has yet to happen.

[pissclams]

Mizzou is an "up & coming" team per magazines and idiots ever since Pinkel and Brad arrived.  Last year they had a top 10 offense and a lot of vets on defense...and still went 4-4 in an average North division.

Does that answer your question?  It was year 6 for Pinkel and 4-4 is the best he's done in conference play.

Consider some of these facts and draw your own conclusions.  Mizzou was supposed to have arrived every year since '03....has yet to happen.

I think that Pinkel's team last year looked different that past Mizzou teams.  IMO it just took Forehead a few years to get up to speed with coaching in the Big XII.  I think they are going to win the North with a Oct 6 win over Nebraska.  MU's offense will score a lot of points this season.

[mjrod]

Mizzou has the most offensive weapons in terms of experience and talent.   The O-Line will be dangerous.  If Mizzou's defense could get better, then they win the north easily.

Chase Daniels is on the Maxwell Watch list.  That kid, despite his affinity for picking tasty boogers, is going to have that team scoring all over the place.

I think it's between them and NU for first place, followed by KSU.. and whoever else is left.

Of course, Pinkel is still their coach.. there will be at least 1 game where a boneheaded play will cost them a victory.

[S. Parker]

Mizzou has the most offensive weapons in terms of experience and talent.   The O-Line will be dangerous.  If Mizzou's defense could get better, then they win the north easily.

Chase Daniels is on the Maxwell Watch list.  That kid, despite his affinity for picking tasty boogers, is going to have that team scoring all over the place.

I think it's between them and NU for first place, followed by KSU.. and whoever else is left.

Of course, Pinkel is still their coach.. there will be at least 1 game where a boneheaded play will cost them a victory.

So where does their offense keep going when they play somewhat good teams? I think their offense is somewhat inflated by favorable scheduling.

The main difference I see in them is that they expect to win more now; they are confident.

[acceleration_man]

I don't follow Missouri Football, but I'll say this:

Brad Smith was the most over-hyped athlete in the Large Dozen. Yep, he had talent, but it never materialized into wins. Perhaps they just needed to get him out of the way to truly have success.

Pinkel has never impressed with the coaching. He's done just good enough and had just enough athletes every year not to get fired.

So personally, I'm taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" approach to the supposed "rise of Missouri football". I can see 2nd or 3rd in the north, but not 1st.

[catinthehat]

mizzous total offense may have been top 10 but their scoring offense, the only offense that counts wqsn't even in the top 20.  That tells me that they move the ball ok enough but because their offense is some pussafied version of real football have a hard time getting into the endzone.  Chase daniel is not that great.  he is accurate but he is short.  He lines up 10-12 yards deep on his shotguns because he can't see over his line.  They may score some points this year but they won't be the best offense in the north this year, just like last year that will go to nebraska.  It's real easy to stop the mizzou offense, all you need is some talent on defense with some speed.  Last year we moved a true frosh 3rd string safety to linebacker against mizzou and that kid had a field day with them.  Mizzou seems to have as many trick plays or cute plays as I like to call them in their arsenal as real plays.

plus, their is the pinkel factor.  Every year mizzou is an up and coming team and every year they are looking forward to next year, the year where they will accomplish something.

[The Manhatter]

I just have a hard time seeing Mizzou winning it.

1) They play a TTech brand of ball offensively.  They do run it more but the better defenses slow them down.

2) Defense, defense, defense.  They lost some key personnel.  Harrington, Bacon, Overstreet, Xavier Jackson, Brian Smith, etc....guys who played a ton of ball for them.  And they still couldn't stop the run defensively last year.

3) Special teams.  Pinkel NEVER has good special teams.

Defense and special teams win divisions and conferences.  There is a reason Leech has not won the South and it's not just because of Texas and Oklahoma.  He's been there 7 years and led the league in numerous offensive categories every year..yet they're not even close to winning the south and never will be while he's there.

And Pinkel has brainfarts on the road....LOL at Iowa State last year.  Folks want to make fun of KSU for losing to Baylor..well, they should make fun of KSU for losing to Baylor...but Baylor also put up 33 points on the horns in Austin and won 3 conference games.  ISU had no pulse last year and Mizzou freakin' lost there after they were just POUNDED by KSU, ku, and CU.

I will admit that if there is a year for Pinkel to win it this year looks the best due to all of the weaponry and returning starters offensviely...but somehow, someway...you just can't put your chips on forehead.

[novembereleven]

Well if there is a team that will piss down its own leg it's certainly Mizzou.  I'd like to think that it takes more to have a ton of optimism than a 4-4 conference record the previous season (which ties Pinkel's best Big 12 record), but it obviously doesn't these days in the North.

I think to have any chance of breakout season Mizzou has to win both the Illinois and Ole Miss games.  Why?  Because they tend to get in a rut very, very easily (streaky bad!).  A poor start could well derail their whole season, as the Nubbs are their first real test and one they'll have to pass.

One thing is for certain.  They'll be a fun team to watch, asssuming their offensive playmakers stay healthy.  Exciting as in fun, as opposed to exciting defined as well coached, challenging to any sort of elite team and tough.  None of those have ever crossed my mind since the 1998 Mizzou team.  Having said that, I think we'll see a pretty talented/diverse offense, led by a very good QB outscore at least 5 Big 12 teams on their way to a North title...before crapping their pants in the Big 12 Championship game and subsequently the Cotton Bowl.  They'll end up finishing about 9-5 on the season which is about the best you can expect from Pinkel.

 

[chum1]

Will he outlast cocomonkey?

[mjrod]

Well if there is a team that will piss down its own leg it's certainly Mizzou.  I'd like to think that it takes more to have a ton of optimism than a 4-4 conference record the previous season (which ties Pinkel's best Big 12 record), but it obviously doesn't these days in the North.

I think to have any chance of breakout season Mizzou has to win both the Illinois and Ole Miss games.  Why?  Because they tend to get in a rut very, very easily (streaky bad!).  A poor start could well derail their whole season, as the Nubbs are their first real test and one they'll have to pass.

One thing is for certain.  They'll be a fun team to watch, asssuming their offensive playmakers stay healthy.  Exciting as in fun, as opposed to exciting defined as well coached, challenging to any sort of elite team and tough.  None of those have ever crossed my mind since the 1998 Mizzou team.  Having said that, I think we'll see a pretty talented/diverse offense, led by a very good QB outscore at least 5 Big 12 teams on their way to a North title...before crapping their pants in the Big 12 Championship game and subsequently the Cotton Bowl.  They'll end up finishing about 9-5 on the season which is about the best you can expect from Pinkel.

 

Welcome.  I'm still waiting on those pics of you and Jessica Simpson you promised a couple years ago.

You didn't mention anything about the defense which is young and inexperienced.  How does that play out?

[fatty fat fat]

Well if there is a team that will piss down its own leg it's certainly Mizzou.  I'd like to think that it takes more to have a ton of optimism than a 4-4 conference record the previous season (which ties Pinkel's best Big 12 record), but it obviously doesn't these days in the North.

I think to have any chance of breakout season Mizzou has to win both the Illinois and Ole Miss games.  Why?  Because they tend to get in a rut very, very easily (streaky bad!).  A poor start could well derail their whole season, as the Nubbs are their first real test and one they'll have to pass.

One thing is for certain.  They'll be a fun team to watch, asssuming their offensive playmakers stay healthy.  Exciting as in fun, as opposed to exciting defined as well coached, challenging to any sort of elite team and tough.  None of those have ever crossed my mind since the 1998 Mizzou team.  Having said that, I think we'll see a pretty talented/diverse offense, led by a very good QB outscore at least 5 Big 12 teams on their way to a North title...before crapping their pants in the Big 12 Championship game and subsequently the Cotton Bowl.  They'll end up finishing about 9-5 on the season which is about the best you can expect from Pinkel.

 

The thing I keep fearing about Mizzou, is they were so very close to going 10-2 (6-2) last season, which is different from the other Pinkel (4-4) years where they were probably just as good as their record.

I mean seriously, KSU and MU finished both 4-4 last year, but we weren't as good as them. Not even that close imo.

[mjrod]

The two losses you refer to, A&M and Iowa State were caused by Pinkel's ability to kill a game.  The same with Oregon State game.  Nebraska, they laid an egg completely and shouldn't have.

Pinkel's factor in any game is hugely unknown.   

[catzacker]

I'm glad we face MU in the last quarter of the season.  That's usually about the time that they go on  their Gary Pinkel patented late season downward spiral.  In Pinkel's career at MU (since '01), his record in the last five games of each season......9-21.   

[KSUTOMMY]

I believe that neither MU nor NU will do much of anything until a MAJOR coaching change. I see that as the problem in the north. Pinkel can recruit pretty well, and so can Calafraud - BUT as someone else put it Pinky is in his 6th yr... 4-4 is the best he's done? Even though we all can agree that VY was something special at UT, that wasn't Mack Brown's coaching that did all of that... Brown simply let VY do "his thing" and I believe that's why UT was so successful. If Pinkel would've let Brad Smith play his game, they might have had more success. Who knows, I think that Pinkel and Fat Man Gino have both somehow convinced thier respective ADs that they are worth all that scratch that they just got last year, and that will confuse me until the day I die.

[doom]

I don't see Mizzou doing much in the future, I just think they had a good year w/ Chase Daniels and will ride that tide and sink back to mediocrity when he goes.

[pissclams]

Well if there is a team that will piss down its own leg it's certainly Mizzou.  I'd like to think that it takes more to have a ton of optimism than a 4-4 conference record the previous season (which ties Pinkel's best Big 12 record), but it obviously doesn't these days in the North.

I think to have any chance of breakout season Mizzou has to win both the Illinois and Ole Miss games.  Why?  Because they tend to get in a rut very, very easily (streaky bad!).  A poor start could well derail their whole season, as the Nubbs are their first real test and one they'll have to pass.

One thing is for certain.  They'll be a fun team to watch, asssuming their offensive playmakers stay healthy.  Exciting as in fun, as opposed to exciting defined as well coached, challenging to any sort of elite team and tough.  None of those have ever crossed my mind since the 1998 Mizzou team.  Having said that, I think we'll see a pretty talented/diverse offense, led by a very good QB outscore at least 5 Big 12 teams on their way to a North title...before crapping their pants in the Big 12 Championship game and subsequently the Cotton Bowl.  They'll end up finishing about 9-5 on the season which is about the best you can expect from Pinkel.

 

The thing I keep fearing about Mizzou, is they were so very close to going 10-2 (6-2) last season, which is different from the other Pinkel (4-4) years where they were probably just as good as their record.

I mean seriously, KSU and MU finished both 4-4 last year, but we weren't as good as them. Not even that close imo.

Yup x 100, last year's MU team was different.  Pinkel was different.  I think he's finally figured out that this isn't the MAC he's coaching in anymore.

[bigdeal]

Pinkel can recruit.  And every year, their talent seems to get better.  That is why every year looks to be their year.  The last 1/4 season spiral is because that is when they play actual teams.  Their non-con is usually fairly poor and they lose to any real teams then.  Then, they go through the easier Big 12 games, before losing to the decent teams.  They have plenty of talent, and they have confidence, but coaching just remains suspect.  That being said, Mack Brown finally accumulated enough talent to win a national championship a few years ago because VY was so good, and the talent around him was good enough to support him.  I don't see Pinkel reaching that level, but, with his ability to recruit, he should be able to compete for the north title...particularly this year with the corn at home and getting his nemesis, large guy from low rents, to play a neutral site game in KC.  Outlook, good talent, 4-4 to 5-3 in conference.       

[KSU4ME]

How good is Pinkel's recruiting?  He does a good job in state, and that keeps him right around #25 in the recruiting ranking, but none of that talent gets much in the way of looks from the league.

One guy drafted in the first three rounds for Pinkel, and that guy was picked in the latter parts of round 3.

[mjrod]

I'm glad we face MU in the last quarter of the season.  That's usually about the time that they go on  their Gary Pinkel patented late season downward spiral.  In Pinkel's career at MU (since '01), his record in the last five games of each season......9-21.   

The best time to beat KSU in Big 12 is the first half of the league play.

KSU is 24-20 (54%) in the first four games of league play and since 2001, KSU is 7-17 (29%).
KSU is 33-11 (75%) in the last four games of league play and since 2001, KSU is 16-8 (66%)
From 1996-2000 - K-State was 17-3 in the first four games (85%) and 17-3 in the last for (85%)

For Missouri, the best time to beat Missouri is the second half of league play.

Missouri is 20-24 (45%) in the first four games and since 2001 is 13-11 (54%)
Missouri is 15-29 (34%) in the last four games and since 2001 is 7-17 (29%)
From 1996-2000 Missouri was 7-13 in the first four game (35%) and 8-12 in the last four (40%).

[novembereleven]

Thanks for the welcome mjrod.  I've been lurking for awhile and finally decided to jump in. 

I think the numbers you just posted are somewhat telling, but also damned evident how much we've been screwed by the Big 12's scheduling policy.  You know the part that reads "all teams with the exception of KSU will sometimes start conference play at home."   I think we've managed to do that something like twice in 11 seasons of Big 12 play (and once was due to the Tech inaugural game getting moved up).  Look how we've done in our first conference games and who we've played as of late.

2001 @ OU (lost by 1 to the defending National Champs)
2002 @ CU (lost by 4 to the defending Big 12 Champs)
2003 @ UT (lost by 4 to a Top 10 team)
2004 @ aTm (lost to the team it seems we never beat at a tough stadium)
2005 @ OU (got drilled by a struggling, but eventual Top 25 team)
2006 @ Baylor (no comment)

Amongst those teams are 8 of the 11 Big 12 Championships (NU with 2 and KSU with 1 are the others).  NOBODY has had to start conference play like we have...damn near every year.

[fatty fat fat]

, but also damned evident how much we've been screwed by the Big 12's scheduling policy.

Does it matter? You're going to have to play them sometimes.

And there was something to Snyder's teams turning it on the end of the year. We really had no business losing to CU in 2002. Or aTm in 2001. etc..

[mjrod]

Had we started a couple of those games at home, it might have been a different story.

[Iceberg]

Mizzou will not win the North. They will sit at third, behind Nebraska and KSU.

Mizzou had to give away tickets to their bowl game and still couldn't get people there. With that crappy of a fan base, how are they to win the North? I know the fans don't play the game, but seriously, there not helping them along.