Date: 22/07/25 - 13:56 PM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: We really need another jump shooter on this team.  (Read 1857 times)

July 06, 2007, 04:35:13 PM
Reply #60

michigancat

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Success in transition offense is almost as dependent (if not more) on the 4 non PG players as it is the PG.  If you have Bennett, Wright, and Cartier Martin on the floor, you aren't going to be very good in transition even if you have TJ Ford at the point.

The idea that who the PG is changes possession to possession just isn't the way basketball is played at a competitive level.  That is how it's played in grade school gyms and at the Rec though.

But hey, maybe Rusty is the Mike Leach of college basketball. 



We really aren't that far off.  We're just choosing to argue extremes.

July 06, 2007, 04:36:48 PM
Reply #61

bigdeal

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Posse, I suspect your numbers aren't bad, except I think Stewart will have more time than that...not having seen Pullen.  As for the other talk, you can definitely run if you have two guards who can handle the ball.  The third lane is filled by our uber-athletic other players...think Beasley, Walker, Hoskins, and Sutton won't be able to beat most front courts up the court.  The secondary break could be huge.  And yes, you can use either guard...or even a small forward to bring it up if the break is stopped, but you do use your PG to then set the offense...unless you want pure helter-skelter basketball.  See, even a good running team will typically pull it back and set the offense if there is no break, or secondary break available.  Where our running advantage comes in best is by pushing the ball to use the athletic advantage of our front court...not in getting our guards looks.  The guards merely push the ball to create finishing opportunities for Walker, Hoskins, Beasley and Sutton.  If no advantage, run the O and get a quality shot.  As for after made baskets, I would really like to see whoever is closest grab the ball through the net, step out of bounds and look for the outlet.  If either guard isn't open, let the 3 get the inbounds pass and Stewart or whoever the PG is can come back and get the ball from the 3.  

July 06, 2007, 04:43:00 PM
Reply #62

ksu_FAN

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4ME, you've shown a knowledge of the game, no need to get into some sort of pissing match with Rusty.  Rusty has demonstrated more than adequate basketball knowledge over time.  I trust his posts about the game as much as anyone on this message board or otherwise. 

Both of you are really not that far off of a similar point, though there is a clear philosophy difference.  Rusty has long been an proponent that the idea of a "true PG" is way over used, and that is playing into his rationale.  Your point that most great teams have a designated PG is true as well though.  I think the point Rusty is making though is that there is a difference between "fast break" and "transition".  The idea of most fans seems to be "fast break", which is some ambiguous form of basketball where you have a real fast PG and the idea is to get the ball to him on the outlet and he dribbles through tons of traffic for some highlight film dish and dunk.  Reality is that doesn't work b/c its too easy to take away, thus the more organized approach of a transition offense which Roy Williams perfected.  Yes, there is a primary PG and the ball is going to go through his hands a majority of the time, BUT most good transition teams get the ball up the floor through an organized passing game using lanes on the floor.  Not some really fast guy that can dribble really well and create every time.  Granted, when you have those guys it makes things a lot easier, which Roy proved by having pretty good PGs most of the time. 

Yes, we probably don't have the personnel to run like a Roy Williams coached team, but we have more parts to at least push the tempo than we have in a long time.  We will push the ball more, at least that is the plan from what I understand, though who and how we plan to do that I'm not sure.  I think we should push tempo some if we can handle; the more touches for Beasley and Walker on the offensive end the better.  Clearly from what we know Stewart is not the type of PG that is going to thrive in that, but I think he has the ability to lead some tempo more than he has and more importantly has people around him to allow it with some success.  Perhaps it will help Young as well, and I have no doubt he'll be a much better player simply b/c he is not coming in injured and will have a year under his belt.  Outside of Frank Richards, most  of our JUCO guards have been much better players as SRs than as SOs.  I've heard this staff is confident that we can push the ball more based on how the guys are doing this summer, I'm anxious to see if this is indeed true. 

July 06, 2007, 04:55:15 PM
Reply #63

KSU4ME

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Success in transition offense is almost as dependent (if not more) on the 4 non PG players as it is the PG.  If you have Bennett, Wright, and Cartier Martin on the floor, you aren't going to be very good in transition even if you have TJ Ford at the point.



And if you have the greatest posts and wings in the game, but Stewart and Young bringing it upcourt, any attempts to go up tempo will be comedic, but with a tragic ending.

Hey, maybe the both had epiphanies, and will demonstrate something they haven't shown before and it will work.

Everyone wants to be more up tempo, until they see how their guards look doing it.  Then all of a sudden the half court set is the winning idea.

fan - I get it, I'm just waiting for the team that doesn't have a true PG to win it all.
"Mel Kiper, THE TURD"

July 06, 2007, 04:59:37 PM
Reply #64

michigancat

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Success in transition offense is almost as dependent (if not more) on the 4 non PG players as it is the PG.  If you have Bennett, Wright, and Cartier Martin on the floor, you aren't going to be very good in transition even if you have TJ Ford at the point.



And if you have the greatest posts and wings in the game, but Stewart and Young bringing it upcourt, any attempts to go up tempo will be comedic, but with a tragic ending.

If you had the greatest wings in the game, two of them could share PG duties and you could put Stew on the bench. :)


fan - I get it, I'm just waiting for the team that doesn't have a true PG to win it all.

Gerry McNamara wasn't a true point guard.  Quality big men are much more important (and rare).

July 06, 2007, 05:07:13 PM
Reply #65

yosh

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How much you push the break is reletive to how much more atheletic you are than other teams.  With Walker and Beasley those oppurtunities increase drastically.  Obviously, with high level guards, it increases even more, but we don't have those.  What you want from your "point guard" is the ability to make the decision if the break is there or not.  Get it into his hands quickly let him try to push it and get the ball to a finisher, and if it's not there, be smart enough to back it off and get into the half court.  If it's done well, we will look like a fastbreak team against less atheletic teams and look more like a half-court team against the kus and UTs whom have much better guard play.  I think from that aspect, both Blake and Clent can be the outlet off missed baskets.  If we need to reset and get the ball into the hands of Clent to start a new set... fine.  I also see Blake and Hoskins getting some isolation/create type plays with the clock winding down that you would typically see with PGs.

Slowing the game down will play into our opponents hands most times.  It would be like more atheletic teams slowing down for us last year.  We probably don't want to run and gun with top teams, but you want to bury the lessor teams rather than slowing it down and letting them hang around. 
Cada hombre un gato salvaje!

July 06, 2007, 05:54:59 PM
Reply #66

Shock_Me_76

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Pullen and Brown will be big for this team next year.

July 06, 2007, 05:56:15 PM
Reply #67

catzacker

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I was under the impression that there is probably a happy medium between Bobby Knight's offense and Roy Williams' offense.  But apparently, if you don't have Hinrich or Miles, you can't try to get out and run, even a little bit or at slower pace, ever.  
« Last Edit: July 06, 2007, 06:04:24 PM by catzacker »