Date: 23/07/25 - 07:42 AM   48060 Topics and 694399 Posts

Author Topic: Perhaps I've been wrong about Jeff Martin....  (Read 14322 times)

June 22, 2007, 10:02:43 AM
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ScubaSteve

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I've been thinking about this and looking back at the Butler article and at some of J-Mart's posts about it and maybe I've been wrong.

After reading pretty much all of Jeff's articles and the way he reports, it's pretty hard for me to believe that he could keep himself from asking Butler about all of the Kansas kids on scholarship and the kids we've already offered this year after the outlandish statements that Butler made.  You can tell he just likes asking that uncomfortable question, just like most reporters.

I offer the possibility that Jeff was simply unaware of Prince's history regarding Kansas kids.  I know that is hard to believe also, seeing as how Jeff is such a good beat writer we would think he would know the roster inside and out.  I can see though he would hate to admit his ignorance, because well, it is kind of bad if he didn't know this, but I offer this post from Jeff as evidence.  This is what Jeff posted prior to his article coming out.  Does this sound like a man who disagrees with what Butler stated?  Perhaps Jeff's pride just won't allow him to admit how truly ignorant he really was.

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     Re: let's talk "Potential Players"...
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2007, 09:22:52 pm » Quote 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Read my notebook tomorrow. You'll understand a little better where Brian is coming from. Trust, he's a good dude. He makes a lot of good points. I can understand why you guys are bothered, but Hatter is right. The big-time schools knew about the Browns. They weren't going to remain a secret - even though Dave Krider freaking called the Eagle today looking for contact info about Arthur Brown, unaware he had a little brother who is a superstar, too. Thing is, Butler wants this to continue, the Wichita pipeline. Again, as Hatter said, the talent might dry up after next year. But with the training these guys do under Butler, there is always going to be at least one or two Division I prospects every year - if only to keep relations with Butler strong. 
 
The entire article in the paper is about how KSU and ku snub Kansas kids.  What good points did Butler make?

June 22, 2007, 10:09:30 AM
Reply #1

fatty fat fat

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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

June 22, 2007, 10:10:26 AM
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waks

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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
I so owned you in the Cole Aldrich video thread. You didn't respond..  :'(

June 22, 2007, 10:10:51 AM
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ScubaSteve

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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?

Fitz is worthless.

June 22, 2007, 10:11:46 AM
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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?

When was the last time Fitz interviewed anyone?

June 22, 2007, 10:12:03 AM
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Poopley

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Fitz = Norm from Cheers. Unless you live within easy driving distance of aggieville, you can't ask Fitz anything. His ass has been superglued to that barstool.

June 22, 2007, 10:12:29 AM
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ECN

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It's nice to question Jeff here isn't it? Have you ever asked Fitz why he doesn't just interview butler?
I so owned you in the Cole Aldrich video thread. You didn't respond..  :'(

i saw that. it was a tie.
We all know there's been a conspiracy. Only the failures have been recorded.
We all pay too much attention to Icarus, and not enough to his father.

June 22, 2007, 10:15:05 AM
Reply #7

ScubaSteve

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Well, I see I look kind of silly.  I went to Jeff's Q&A and see he kind of addresses this issue.  I'm really not sure I believe it though.  I'm still confused why Butler's response to all the Kansas RB's was not included in the article and more importantly, what good points did Butler make?

Here's the article for those who want to guess at what those good points are.

Sometimes an in-state football player is too good to stay
No one will believe him, which is why Brian Butler is compelled to explain.

"I love K-State," he said.

He has attended Kansas State football games since his freshman year of high school. His little brother, Rashad Jackson, played briefly for the Wildcats. His unofficial count of K-State games is at 50, and he has tailgated in Manhattan nearly as many times.

"Some of the best in the country," he said.

But, as some might find this hard to believe, this isn't about Butler. He said he is simply an advisor and a trainer, in either order, and two of his highest-profile clients just happen to be East High's Arthur and Bryce Brown, who could be the nation's top overall talents in the classes of 2008 and 2009.

In his mind, his role is well-defined, yet skepticism persists.

He's become a polarizing figure among football fans within the state, despite his pro-Kansas (or pro-Wichita) stance. Arthur Brown, a senior-to-be, has scholarship offers from 50 schools, but he recently slashed the list to 23 -- with K-State and Kansas making the cut. Butler speaks warmly of both programs; but for some die-hard fans, that's not enough.

The thinking goes, if he's as pro-Kansas (or pro-Wichita) as he seems, why not funnel the prospects he advises and works with to the in-state programs? Why not keep the home-grown talent home?

"If you're not getting negative criticism, you're not doing something right," Butler said. "All I'm trying to do is something positive. I told Arthur straight up a long time ago, this decision is his. I'll give my opinion, but it's his call."

He admits to having an issue with K-State, but it's a legitimate beef. His argument is that the talent in Wichita or elsewhere in Kansas is just as good as the talent elsewhere, but K-State and ku have historically never embraced this notion.

According to Butler, the logic in the past was why take a chance on a second-tier prospect from Kansas when a passed-over, fourth-tier kid from Texas was available? Send the Kansan to a junior college --"the farm system," Butler said -- and take the Texan, if for no other reason than perception.

Butler -- and both Browns -- take exception with such logic, which was prevalent under Bill Snyder but still exists now with Ron Prince.

Consider the case of Kapaun Mount Carmel running back Frank Delarue, whom the Browns have trained with. Neither in-state school offered a scholarship to Delarue, an All-Class 5A selection. He had interest from a few Mid-American Conference schools, but he decided to walk-on at K-State, where his brother, Tysyn Hartman, will be a third-string freshman quarterback this fall.

"I know Frank is a better back than some of the guys (K-State) signed, but he's not good enough for a scholarship," Butler said. "That hurt (the Browns') feelings. That was a guy who they knew was a good football player. They looked at other kids' tape on Rivals.com and Frank's highlight tape is much better. We don't understand.

"It put a bad taste in their mouth, and I told Coach Prince this."

Butler doesn't think this surge in Wichita talent is a fluke. There will be plenty more prospects in the future, and the in-state schools need to change their approach.

"It's just the perception of Kansas football," he said. "It's wrong. The home state should be the backbone of the program. I like Coach Prince and (James) Franklin, I really do. But the only hard feelings I have is how they've treated our kids and not given them the benefit of the doubt, the way they do with kids from Texas and Florida."

« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 10:18:45 AM by ScubaSteve »

June 22, 2007, 10:22:06 AM
Reply #8

michigancat

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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.

June 22, 2007, 10:25:20 AM
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<---------Click the ball

June 22, 2007, 10:28:31 AM
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ScubaSteve

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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.

What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash?  Wake up Rusty.

June 22, 2007, 10:30:14 AM
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steve dave

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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.

What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash?

Does it have to be sweaty?  Good idea though.  Begin gathering money. Start with Garth..tell him it's for a Cabela's gift certificate.
<---------Click the ball

June 22, 2007, 10:32:51 AM
Reply #12

konofo

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Here's the article for those who want to guess at what those good points are.

I found them!

Quote
"Some of the best in the country," he said.
Quote
"I told Arthur straight up a long time ago, this decision is his."
Quote
"It's his call."
Quote
"I know Frank is [...] not good enough for a scholarship," Butler said.

kono

June 22, 2007, 10:39:46 AM
Reply #13

ScubaSteve

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Here's the article for those who want to guess at what those good points are.

I found them!

Quote
"Some of the best in the country," he said.
Quote
"I told Arthur straight up a long time ago, this decision is his."
Quote
"It's his call."
Quote
"I know Frank is [...] not good enough for a scholarship," Butler said.

kono

Anybody want to take a serious stab at it?

June 22, 2007, 10:39:54 AM
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michigancat

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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.

What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash?  Wake up Rusty.

How about calling him once in a while?

How about attending the workout session that Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, and Pete Carrol could muster up the time to fly across the country to attend?

Just a couple ideas.

June 22, 2007, 10:43:06 AM
Reply #15

michigancat

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A wad of sweaty cash wouldn't hurt, either, BTW.

June 22, 2007, 10:47:06 AM
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ScubaSteve

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I'm more concerned with Prince not realizing the importance of addressing Brian Butler's concerns before he says something ridiculous to a newspaper.

What, like handing him a wad of sweaty cash?  Wake up Rusty.

How about calling him once in a while?

How about attending the workout session that Urban Meyer, Bob Stoops, and Pete Carrol could muster up the time to fly across the country to attend?

Just a couple ideas.

Oh so now you have access to their phone records?

June 22, 2007, 10:48:31 AM
Reply #17

ScubaSteve

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A wad of sweaty cash wouldn't hurt, either, BTW.

Wouldn't matter.  Pete Carroll, Bob Stoops, and Urban Meyer have bigger wads.

June 22, 2007, 10:48:58 AM
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konofo

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Oh so now you have access to their phone records?

Well, you could FOIA Prince.

kono

June 22, 2007, 01:32:18 PM
Reply #19

ScubaSteve

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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article.  I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer.  Oh wait.  No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.

June 22, 2007, 04:06:12 PM
Reply #20

ds43fan

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Quote
The home state should be the backbone of the program
http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3062
seams to me there is a lot of kansas talent on that roster...

June 22, 2007, 04:07:03 PM
Reply #21

fatty fat fat

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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article.  I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer.  Oh wait.  No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.

Maybe you should stop being a pussy and link to ksufans.com on wabash instead of copying and pasting.

It is a tragedy because now, we have at least an extra month without Cat football until next year. I hate wasting my life away but I can hardly wait until next year.

June 22, 2007, 04:19:21 PM
Reply #22

catzacker

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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article.  I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer.  Oh wait.  No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.

Quote
According to Butler, the logic in the past was why take a chance on a second-tier prospect from Kansas when a passed-over, fourth-tier kid from Texas was available? Send the Kansan to a junior college --"the farm system," Butler said -- and take the Texan, if for no other reason than perception.

Butler -- and both Browns -- take exception with such logic, which was prevalent under Bill Snyder but still exists now with Ron Prince.

I think that was a legitimate point.  Bill did do that on occassion to some second tier Kansas kids.  I played with a guy who was told by the KSU staff to go to a JUCO or walk on.  I think that Prince is getting away from that. 

June 22, 2007, 05:07:16 PM
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BRULL

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Butler -- and both Browns -- take exception with such logic, which was prevalent under Bill Snyder but still exists now with Ron Prince.[/quote]

Retraction? JMART?

June 22, 2007, 05:52:38 PM
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dr00d

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June 22, 2007, 05:56:17 PM
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catzacker

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June 22, 2007, 06:37:04 PM
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Poopley

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June 22, 2007, 07:34:56 PM
Reply #27

ScubaSteve

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Still waiting for what good points Mr. Butler made in that article.  I suppose it would be easiest if Jeff would answer.  Oh wait.  No one can answer, because he didn't make any good points.

Maybe you should stop being a pussy and link to ksufans.com on wabash instead of copying and pasting.



What happened to the old fatty?  You just don't seem like you are having fun any more.  Are you having problems at home?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2007, 07:36:54 PM by ScubaSteve »

June 22, 2007, 11:48:25 PM
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~WabashRoll~

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What happened to tax season?

It can't get here fast enough.......




"Just a general question...Anyone else think Brian Smoller sounds like Bob Costas? I've told him that for years and he never believes me". - D. Scott Fritchen

June 22, 2007, 11:57:26 PM
Reply #29

ds43fan

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What happened to tax season?

It can't get here fast enough.......



screw you man i live w/ 2 accountants