Perhaps I've been wrong about Jeff Martin....

[ScubaSteve]

Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:

If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?

It was bad press for Prince and KSU.  I don't care who said it.  It's in the paper.  It must be true.  In fact it wasn't true, but that doesn't matter to Jeffrey Martin.  He's just quoting.  He wasn't being a journalist that day.

I don't remember saying that Butler is irrelevant, but he might be.  All I know is he is going around making ridiculous comments in the paper.

[PurpleReign]

After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter?  Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants.  After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever.  Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers.  I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur.  Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.

If the Butlers go to Florida and USC and say, win a Butkus and a Doak Walker award, you can bet your ass that every football player in Wichita will be lining up to be trained by Butler.  While we won't always have competition from the elite programs, we'll always have to compete with schools like OSU, Mizzou, and ku for the Rashad Washington type players that come out of Wichita quite often.  Butler could do good things for kids, and in turn do good things for KSU.  That being said, F*ck him.  Ron doesn't need help.

Every kid is going to want to be trained by Butler because he trained 2 already freak athletes?  I have a hard time believing that everyone is going to want to go and train for this fat ass after 2 kids that would have been successful no matter what.  Brian Butler did not make the Brown Bros. and even high school kids are going to be able to realize that even though you can't, Rusty.

[waks]

After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter?  Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants.  After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever.  Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers.  I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur.  Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.

If the Butlers go to Florida and USC and say, win a Butkus and a Doak Walker award, you can bet your ass that every football player in Wichita will be lining up to be trained by Butler.  While we won't always have competition from the elite programs, we'll always have to compete with schools like OSU, Mizzou, and ku for the Rashad Washington type players that come out of Wichita quite often.  Butler could do good things for kids, and in turn do good things for KSU.  That being said, F*ck him.  Ron doesn't need help.

Every kid is going to want to be trained by Butler because he trained 2 already freak athletes?  I have a hard time believing that everyone is going to want to go and train for this fat ass after 2 kids that would have been successful no matter what.  Brian Butler did not make the Brown Bros. and even high school kids are going to be able to realize that even though you can't, Rusty.

Why do players go play for coaches that have reputations for getting players into the NFL? People are going to give Butler a lot of credit when these kids blow up in college. If you don't think every kid will want to have Butler's help then you just aren't very intelligent.

[PurpleReign]

After Bryce Brown leaves Wichita, will Brian Butler even matter?  Sure, Prince could have been the bigger man and not said anything about how he recruits, but the man can do what he wants.  After the Brown brothers leave Wichita, Butler has absolutely no leverage on any school what so ever.  Every prospect in Wichita is going to be a 2*,3*, or maybe an occasional 4* but none are going to be nationally saught after recruits, and none are going to be as close to Butler as the Brown brothers.  I don't believe that future kids are going to listen to this guy simply because of his name association with Bryce and Arthur.  Prospects like that come through Wichita once every 10 years and in 10 years Brian Butler will be irrelevant.

If the Butlers go to Florida and USC and say, win a Butkus and a Doak Walker award, you can bet your ass that every football player in Wichita will be lining up to be trained by Butler.  While we won't always have competition from the elite programs, we'll always have to compete with schools like OSU, Mizzou, and ku for the Rashad Washington type players that come out of Wichita quite often.  Butler could do good things for kids, and in turn do good things for KSU.  That being said, F*ck him.  Ron doesn't need help.

Every kid is going to want to be trained by Butler because he trained 2 already freak athletes?  I have a hard time believing that everyone is going to want to go and train for this fat ass after 2 kids that would have been successful no matter what.  Brian Butler did not make the Brown Bros. and even high school kids are going to be able to realize that even though you can't, Rusty.

Why do players go play for coaches that have reputations for getting players into the NFL? People are going to give Butler a lot of credit when these kids blow up in college. If you don't think every kid will want to have Butler's help then you just aren't very intelligent.

I'm not very intelligent because I can see through Brian Butler's scheme to use the Brown bros. to set up a money maker for himself?  Maybe the "people" you speak of are the ones who aren't very intelligent because they are the ones giving Butler credit for the Browns hard work and talent.

[waks]

Last I checked, high school football recruits buy into B.S. all of the time. For example, the Brown brothers. Players are going to see what the Browns do in college and Butler will be able to assume some credit for "getting their names out there."

[PurpleReign]

Not so sure the Browns "bought into B.S."  They have been friends with Butler all along.  Giving credit to Butler for their success.... That's B.S.

[waks]

Of course it's BS. But that doesn't mean that they won't. Or that they realize it's bs. What about the other thirty some kids that are in Butler's organization? Have all of them been friends with Butler for such a long time?

[PurpleReign]

The other 30 are there because the Browns are there and because coaches like Pete Carrol are there.  No Browns = No Coaches = No Kids = No Butler.  It's that simple.

[waks]

The other 30 are there because the Browns are there and because coaches like Pete Carrol are there.  No Browns = No Coaches = No Kids = No Butler.  It's that simple.

The point is that the Browns were there with Butler. That will do wonders for him. He's not a dumb guy. He knows what he's doing. His program will get recognition from the Browns. You watch and you'll see.

[PurpleReign]

In 2 years when Bryce is gone and Butler tries to put on his camp, no coaches are going to fly in from anywhere.  A couple assistants from ku, KSU, OSU, OU, Tulsa, and maybe MU or CU might come, but it will go right back to the way it always been with kids going to camps and sending film to get noticed.  It will end up being just another combine like others put on.

[PurpleReign]

and without the coaches coming to the camps, Butler won't get kids to pay him to train them.  With no kids, he fades into irrelevance.

[Dan Rydell]

The other 30 are there because the Browns are there and because coaches like Pete Carrol are there.  No Browns = No Coaches = No Kids = No Butler.  It's that simple.

One player cannot possibly jump start your career.

Signed,

Dalonte Hill

[PurpleReign]

Think of it this way.  Chris Harper doesn't give a f*** about the Brown brothers or Brian Butler.  He doesn't train with the guy and only went to his camp because the coaches were there.  Not everyone is going to be shell shocked to meet a guy who trained the Brown bros, especially guys that are good enough to play at the next level without his help.  The kids that buy into the B.S. are marginal at best, like Frank DeLarue.

[waks]

and without the coaches coming to the camps, Butler won't get kids to pay him to train them.  With no kids, he fades into irrelevance.

First off, Butler doesn't get paid to do what he does. Secondly, kids are going to flock to Butler even if big time coaches aren't showing up. And honestly, it isn't a bad idea for them to do so. Because them being associated with Butler does give them a better chance to get recruited because people know about them then. The Browns being with Butler will help him immensely. He will be in with most of the talent that comes out of Wichita for years to come. Being in with Butler can only benefit us. End of story.

[PurpleReign]

You are saying kids will flock to Butler because of the Browns, who won't be there.  Interesting.  How will kids find out about Butler when the Browns are gone?  He sure as hell won't be getting any interviews in the paper anymore, and the Brown brothers won't be there to advertise for him.

[waks]

You are saying kids will flock to Butler because of the Browns, who won't be there.  Interesting.  How will kids find out about Butler when the Browns are gone?  He sure as hell won't be getting any interviews in the paper anymore, and the Brown brothers won't be there to advertise for him.

You're an idiot. Butler's name will always be associated with the Browns from here on out. I mean, crap, there's a three page thread about him right now on our board.

[PurpleReign]

Call me names if you want, but you didn't answer my question.  When Bryce or Arthur are on ESPN, the reporters aren't going to say s%&* about Brian Butler.  Right now Butler is associated with them because they are always in the news and he is their handler, in 3 years when they are in college there will be no connection between them unless he goes with them and in that case this whole conversation is moot.  Walking around telling people about how he trained the Brown bros. won't do crap for him.

[waks]

Call me names if you want, but you didn't answer my question.  When Bryce or Arthur are on ESPN, the reporters aren't going to say s%&* about Brian Butler.  Right now Butler is associated with them because they are always in the news and he is their handler, in 3 years when they are in college there will be no connection between them unless he goes with them and in that case this whole conversation is moot.  Walking around telling people about how he trained the Brown bros. won't do @#%$ for him.

You better believe that every kid in Wichita that has any D1 dreams from seventh grade on up knows who Brian Butler is. I'm not talking nationally, I'm talking locally. Kids that K-State signs every year.

[PurpleReign]

People don't care about the trainers, they care about the players.  Ask a high school KSU fan to name a player then ask them to name the strength coach.  Nobody gives a crap about Brian Butler, including kids who want to play at the next level.

[waks]

People don't care about the trainers, they care about the players.  Ask a high school KSU fan to name a player then ask them to name the strength coach.  Nobody gives a @#%$ about Brian Butler, including kids who want to play at the next level.

Alright, whatever you say. If nobody cared then nobody would be in his program (including the Browns).

[chum1]

Powertard test

3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a k-state coach or administrator does?

This is clearly the criterion that is giving Scuba and KSU4ME (go ahead and get a new user name, dude) such a big powertard target on their backs.  Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school. 

You're really all over the place.  So now it was about the recruitment of Kansas kids.  Glad we got that cleared up.

A piece on a particular person's thoughts on a particular issue is not the same as a piece on that issue in general.

What value does Jeffrey provide over a voice recorder if all he does is regurgitate other's words without any analysis or additional relevant facts?

The value of regurgitating other's words without any analysis or additional relevant facts.  (Yes, that is a serious response.)

In most of his other work, Jeffery does an amazing job of providing facts from other sources, great analysis, etc.

link?

Jeffrey's response is that it was just a notebook, and my reply is that while it's a subject he clearly felt worthy of an incendiary interview, it's strangely one he never followed up upon or included additional relevant facts/analysis at the time.

Can you give some examples of other notebooks that were followed up on or included additional relevant facts/analysis?  Or else tell me why this one should be treated differently.

I missed your responses to the above, KSU4ME.

[ScubaSteve]

Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school. 

That's a complete lie.  Take it back.

[michigancat]

Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:

If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?

It was bad press for Prince and KSU.  I don't care who said it.  It's in the paper.  It must be true.  In fact it wasn't true, but that doesn't matter to Jeffrey Martin.  He's just quoting.  He wasn't being a journalist that day.

Who does the bad press affect?  The national media definitely doesn't give a crap.  What about recruits?  KC recruits know that KSU signs a crapload of KC kids.  I'm guessing Texas, Cali, and Florida kids don't give a crap.  That leaves...

I think what's great about Powertards is that they HATE it when KSU receives negative press, but either justify or refuse to acknowledge KSU's role in the negative press.

1)  The media blasts KSU for crappy scheduling, 'tards say it's needed.
2)  KK criticizes Snyder for trying to sign a linebacker that killed a guy, powertards say Bill "Butter Pads" Snyder had no idea how a 24 year old he was recruiting was a sophomore in college.
3)  Hate "Juco U" comments, but want nothing to do with higher entrance requirements for Juco's or higher academic standards for athletes.
4)  A guy that could be a great ally for KSU football for the next few years airs some frustrations to the media, powertards lambast the guy who interviewed him and claim Ron did the best he could, even after he publicly mocked the potential ally.

[chum1]

Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school. 

That's a complete lie.  Take it back.

Why is this not a standard case of the kind that you acknowledge below?  I wouldn't believe you if you said that attack anyone who dares question any school's coach or administrator.

3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a k-state coach or administrator does?  Yeah, pretty much.

[ksuno1stunner]

Here's a question for Scuba and KSU4ME:

If Butler is irrelevant, why have you two combined for over thirty posts in a thread about a journalist not asking Butler the right questions?

It was bad press for Prince and KSU.  I don't care who said it.  It's in the paper.  It must be true.  In fact it wasn't true, but that doesn't matter to Jeffrey Martin.  He's just quoting.  He wasn't being a journalist that day.

Who does the bad press affect?  The national media definitely doesn't give a @#%$.  What about recruits?  KC recruits know that KSU signs a crapload of KC kids.  I'm guessing Texas, Cali, and Florida kids don't give a @#%$.  That leaves...

I think what's great about Powertards is that they HATE it when KSU receives negative press, but either justify or refuse to acknowledge KSU's role in the negative press.

1)  The media blasts KSU for crappy scheduling, 'tards say it's needed.
2)  KK criticizes Snyder for trying to sign a linebacker that killed a guy, powertards say Bill "Butter Pads" Snyder had no idea how a 24 year old he was recruiting was a sophomore in college.
3)  Hate "Juco U" comments, but want nothing to do with higher entrance requirements for Juco's or higher academic standards for athletes.
4)  A guy that could be a great ally for KSU football for the next few years airs some frustrations to the media, powertards lambast the guy who interviewed him and claim Ron did the best he could, even after he publicly mocked the potential ally.

Considering that Prince is the head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats, I'd rather have him running the show.

[ScubaSteve]

Their opinion would be completely different had it been a different beat writer and a different school. 

That's a complete lie.  Take it back.

Why is this not a standard case of the kind that you acknowledge below?  I wouldn't believe you if you said that attack anyone who dares question any school's coach or administrator.

3. Do you attack anyone who dares question something a k-state coach or administrator does?  Yeah, pretty much.

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but it's a lie because it doesn't matter what beat writer it was I'd react the same.  I got pissed at Parsons all the time.  This board just wasn't around at the time and he didn't post over here.  You are right about another school.  I only care about my school.  Any other school is someone else's problem.

[FBWillie]

I know it's the off season, but my god, this thread is really annoying

[chum1]

I'm not quite sure what you mean

Let me put it this way.  The reason you dislike the article is because you took it to be negative toward KSU.  It's not due to these peripheral concerns of one-sidedness or any of the other garbage that is being discussed.  You just don't like anything you think is anti-KSU.  Are we in agreement here?

Parts of if may be unfairly negative toward KSU.  But instead of acknowledging both this and also that some of the other criticisms may be fair, you condemn the whole article. 

These things make you come accross as nothing but a huge homer.  And that's why you're getting some of the reactions you are - especially when you pretend that you are not a huge homer by focusing on the peripheral issues.

[ScubaSteve]

I'm not quite sure what you mean

Let me put it this way.  The reason you dislike the article is because you took it to be negative toward KSU.  It's not due to these peripheral concerns of one-sidedness or any of the other garbage that is being discussed.  You just don't like anything you think is anti-KSU.  Are we in agreement here?

Parts of if may be unfairly negative toward KSU.  But instead of acknowledging both this and also that some of the other criticisms may be fair, you condemn the whole article. 

These things make you come accross as nothing but a huge homer.  And that's why you're getting some of the reactions you are - especially when you pretend that you are not a huge homer by focusing on the peripheral issues.

If your point is that I'm a huge homer, then duh, I am.  I admit I'm a homer.  Are you dense?  I'm a KSU fan.  If this article was about ku, hell no I'm not going to bitch about it.  Let some ku fan bitch about it.  I think it was unfair to KSU and the football program so I bitched about it.  WTF?  By the way, I don't see any of the criticisms in this particular article to be fair.

By the way, I think that Ron Prince might do a very fine job.  That's my opinion.  Why is there something wrong with that?

Look, here's my deal.  If I felt like it was productive to bash a coach or an administrator I'll do it.  I was very outspoken about firing Wooldridge, a year before it happened.  I was outspoken about Wefald giving him a reprieve when he did.  What I don't understand is that some people constantly magnify and bring attention to every little mistake or shortcoming of Ron Prince.  There is NOTHING PRODUCTIVE at this point in time for a KSU fan to do that.  Let the guy go 3-9 this year and then bitch.  I might even be right there with you, but he is not going anywhere for a few years and to be honest I WANT TO WIN.  The guy went to a bowl game and beat #3 Texas in his first season, I truly don't know what you people are thinking.  All bitching about him, making fun of him in any public forum makes his job harder.  Is the guy perfect?  No, but he is young.  He can learn from his mistakes.  I don't understand idiots like Rusty for example who think he's helping somehow by dogging on the guy constantly on message boards that recruits read.  HOW IS THAT HELPING!!!  You can disagree with what he is doing, but send him an e-mail for Christ's sake.  Wait until there is a snowball's chance in hell that he could possibly be fired and then bitch in public.  Anyone that's bitching now, here is what I have to say to them.

 

By the way.  I also think that Tim Weiser is doing a good job.  So sue me.

I'm also tired of Deb Patterson, but I really don't give a rat's about women's basketball, so you don't hear me complaing about it.

Christ.  Yes I'm a KSU homer.  Isn't that what a fan is?

[chum1]

My point is that you keep going on and on about the article when all you need to do is say, "I hate it because I'm a huge homer."  Beyond that, there's just nothing to discuss.