Bishop/Beasley/Roberson/Meier/Evridge/Webb/Freeman

[michigancat]

Strange emotional attachment to a player.  Honestly I think they are player, and think that Bishop gets all the love because his team put KSU on the map while Roberson put them on the map for the hotel incedent.  On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years, I just feel that Roberson doesn't get any credit for what he accomplished because folks are obsessed with Michael Bishop.

Who said Roberson doesn't get any credit?  You were talking sh*t on Bishop for a single fumble.  That's ludicrous.

[mjrod]

Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.

Huh?

Bishop fumbled a lot during the season.  He was able to come back and win it.  Bishop not fumble in critical play in fourth quarter against Aggies, and KSU goes to the NC game and wins it.

At some point, it catches up to you.  Bishop v. Roberson is a stupid argument because Bishop was more physical and had a better supporting cast.   KSU scored 627 points that season, almost an NCAA record for that year.

Strange emotional attachment to a player.  Honestly I think they are player, and think that Bishop gets all the love because his team put KSU on the map while Roberson put them on the map for the hotel incedent.  On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years, I just feel that Roberson doesn't get any credit for what he accomplished because folks are obsessed with Michael Bishop.

I'm not emotionally attached to Bishop or Roberson.   The simple matter of fact is to look at statistics, look at film, look at the schedule, and then evaluate based on the various scenarios.  The only thing Roberson did better than Bishop was win a Big 12 Championship.   He'd lead Bishop and Beasley in the regard.

If you watch Bishop v. Roberson, and compare them, they both did great jobs of leading their teams.   Watching Bishop though, and you'll see a much more gifted athlete and watching him bowl over Nebraska defensive linemen, or other players simply is amazing.    His will to win games was incredible.

[catdude33]

Bishop Career Passing Stats:
Passing efficiency: 147.6

Att    Comp     Int's     TD's      Games Played
480    244       12        36        23


Roberson Career Passing Stats:
Passing efficiency:  128.3

Att     Comp     Int's     TD's     Games Played
628     307       26        37       41

Roberson played in 18 more games than Bishop, yet he only threw one more touchdown.  Whoever was whining about wanting to see stats, here they are.  Bishop owns Roberson.

[970Cat]

Anyone talking @#%$ on Bishop for a fumble deserves to be c*ntpunted to the &*$@!ing moon.

Huh?

Bishop fumbled a lot during the season.  He was able to come back and win it.  Bishop not fumble in critical play in fourth quarter against Aggies, and KSU goes to the NC game and wins it.

At some point, it catches up to you.  Bishop v. Roberson is a stupid argument because Bishop was more physical and had a better supporting cast.   KSU scored 627 points that season, almost an NCAA record for that year.

  On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years

No, they were drastically differeent.  Bishop = Tough and Strong; Roberson = Fast and Finesse.  

[dmartin]

I always forget that beasley was actually good.

[cireksu]

Strange emotional attachment to a player.  Honestly I think they are player, and think that Bishop gets all the love because his team put KSU on the map while Roberson put them on the map for the hotel incedent.  On the field, I really think they were the same player in their bet years, I just feel that Roberson doesn't get any credit for what he accomplished because folks are obsessed with Michael Bishop.

Who said Roberson doesn't get any credit?  You were talking sh*t on Bishop for a single fumble.  That's ludicrous.

No one gives Roberson Credit. His numbers are very similar to Bishop's.  Bishop fumbled on the biggest stage that ksu has been on ever, and will in all likelyhood never get to again.  Roberson set records on the biggest stage that he was on.

my other post was towards rusty MJ, I am in more agreement with you.

[michigancat]

No one gives Roberson Credit. His numbers are very similar to Bishop's.  Bishop fumbled on the biggest stage that ksu has been on ever, and will in all likelyhood never get to again.  Roberson set records on the biggest stage that he was on.

my other post was towards rusty MJ, I am in more agreement with you.

Are you one of those dumbcraps that gives ku crap for losing to Syracuse in the National Title game?

[catdude33]

Roberson's numbers aren't close to Bishops.  The only reason they even seem to be is because of the 15 game season. 

[sonofdaxjones]

Additional Bishop Close game:

K-State 13 - Tech 2

It might have been a 11 point spread, but this one was down to the wire and saved by a young QB named Jonathan.

Beasley saved KSU's ass that game, because Bishop couldn't do $hit.

[fatty fat fat]

The moral of this story is that Roberson was only successful because he was on a damn good team.

LOL. No. ABAcire.

[cireksu]

Roberson's numbers aren't close to Bishops.  The only reason they even seem to be is because of the 15 game season. 

He was hurt for 2 and a half games if that makes a diff.  And had a 1900 yd runningback to split the yards with.  I'd say his stats were pretty incredible.

[catzacker]

No one gives Roberson Credit. His numbers are very similar to Bishop's.  Bishop fumbled on the biggest stage that ksu has been on ever, and will in all likelyhood never get to again.  Roberson set records on the biggest stage that he was on.

my other post was towards rusty MJ, I am in more agreement with you.

Roberson fumbled/threw interceptions in so many games that he didn't even get to "biggest stage" (UT in '02, UT and OSU in '03 and almost lost the USC game in '02 because he fumbled).  I'd take Bishop over Roberson, but isn't saying that Roberson wasn't fantastic.  

[FBWillie]

...almost lost the USC game in '02 because he fumbled...

[devils advocate]Wasn't that the bull crap fumble on the 3 yard line where forward progress stopped for like 5 seconds, his knee was on the ground yet there was no whistle until a USC linbacker ripped the ball from his hands after the play was clearly not going any further?   [/devils advocate]

[fatty fat fat]

I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio. 

why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.

So the defense is relevant but how much the QB helps/hurts his own cause isn't? 

No, because stats outside of WINS and POINTS (to a lesser extent) are very misleading.

[tmramrod91]

All three players (ya, i'm throwin the Beas in there) were very different in their styles of play, and once Snyder figured out their strengths all of them were great winners.

Bishop-all around amazing athlete, best arm (by far), awesome power and speed. The rockets he threw sometimes made me think how a person can throw a ball that hard. Winners attitude like nothing we've seen in purple.
Beasley-great short yardage runner (avg like 4 yds/carry on qb sneaks) threw the best long ball of all of them, smart player, limited turnovers, also had quincy morgan to throw to
Roberson-fastest of all of them, probably best option qb, good arm, lacked accuracy, more finesse than power, and had a decent compliment at RB.


I'll still take Bishop over the other two tho....

[catzacker]

I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio. 

why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.

So the defense is relevant but how much the QB helps/hurts his own cause isn't? 

No, because stats outside of WINS and POINTS (to a lesser extent) are very misleading.

You should just stick with wins/losses.  Touchdowns count as points, IIRC and some of Freeman's turnovers (like most turnovers) put the defense in bad positions, therefore giving up more points.  See ku game as a prime example.  

[fatty fat fat]

I need to see that side by side with a TD/TO ratio. 

why? I'm not look for the QB with the best stats, I'm looking for the QB with the best W/L record, and how his defense helped him.

So the defense is relevant but how much the QB helps/hurts his own cause isn't? 

No, because stats outside of WINS and POINTS (to a lesser extent) are very misleading.

You should just stick with wins/losses.  Touchdowns count as points, IIRC and some of Freeman's turnovers (like most turnovers) put the defense in bad positions, therefore giving up more points.  See ku game as a prime example. 

Yeah, I could use "defensive ppg" given up, but you'd think that would even up over a 10+ game period, and that's tough to do.

[chum1]

People are upset with Roberson because his laziness kept us out of several national title games.  We were only like seven wins away or something like that.  Roberson also had one of the strongest arms in history.  He threw the ball 97 yards in practice. 

[tmramrod91]

Roberson also had one of the strongest arms in history.  He threw the ball 97 yards in practice. 

wasnt that Bishop? or did they both do it, bc i know i heard of Bishop doing that once

[mjrod]

Bishop threw it 97 yards in practice.

[mjrod]

People are upset with Roberson because his laziness kept us out of several national title games.  We were only like seven wins away or something like that.  Roberson also had one of the strongest arms in history.  He threw the ball 97 yards in practice. 

Beating USC twice was good enough for us.

[coitus]

i wonder if all the folks bringing up bishop's fumbles remember ell roberson's 12 interceptiosn and 8 fumbles in 2003?

[Kat Kid]

Anyone seriously arguing that Bishop had a better surrounding cast than Roberson needs their head checked.

Offesnive Skill Positions:
Roberson- Sproles (BY FAR the single greatest season a KSU running back has ever had 1,986 yards 16 TDs 6.49 YPC!!!), Thomas Hill, Brian Casey, James Terry (1,232 yards is a single season school record and 13TD), Ayo Saba and Travis Wilson (perhaps the best blocking Fullback in KSU history).

Bishop's help on Offense:  ('98 season) Aaron Lockett (928 yards 6TDs), Darnell McDonald (1,092 yards 9TDs) Eric Hickson (169 attempts for 902 yards ? on TDs), David Allen (returner extraordinaire! Running Back mediocre), Frank Murphy, Brian Goolsby, Justin Swift, Martin Grammatica?, Aaron Lockett

Bishop had a really good reciever.  He had a mediocre running back corps.  He had an NFL tight end that was never used.  He had a mediocre blocking fullback.  Aaron Lockett's precipitous statistical decline after Bishop's departure (pre-2001 West Side KO) was not a coincidence.

Ell had a running back that put up Heisman-esque numbers.  He had the best single season yardage performance by a WR in KSU history.  He had three highly touted FBs.  He had Thomas Hill/Brian Casey (and Trevon Magee).

It's not even close.

[coitus]

swift had a huge year for bishop. 

bishop made swift and lockett.

[Kat Kid]

It is really hard to try to compile stats from media guides.  I have the 1998 one.  I have the 2004 one.  I'm missing some key media guides in between.

The good news is I still have my 2001-2002 K-State Women's B-ball Media Guide!!!!!111YAY!!!1

Any help on Swift's '98 numbers?

[michigancat]

http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063

[Kat Kid]

http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063

1998?

[fatty fat fat]

for 1998 just us assume us infinity, them zero.

[michigancat]

http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063

1998?

You said you had the media guide.

[Kat Kid]

http://www.kstatesports.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=400&KEY=&SPID=212&SPSID=3063

1998?

You said you had the media guide.

Yes, but the 1998 media guide was not printed on clairvoyant paper.