Your All K-state team?

[kst8cat]

but he missed a tackle his freshman season.

Actually I think it was Jeramitrius Butler (freshman) that got burned on that slant by Sir Parker as I recall.  He was caught off balance and fell down at Parker's feet.  But maybe Coop missed the tackle later in the play, though.  I'm not going to rewatch it to find out.

[rjd27]

2003 team better than 1998?
http://catzone.cjonline.com/allcenturyteam.shtml
The 2003 team lost three regular season games, including to Marshall - in Manhattan. That loss right there should disqualify any comparisons. Yes, Schwinn was the quarterback, and the coaches called a lousy gameplan (Schwinn out ran Sproles, if I remember correctly), but the defense and special teams underperformed that day, too. I'm not saying the 2003 team wasn't good. It recovered and ended the season playing as well as anyone, which is what usually counts.

But, the 1998 squad was special. Simply because K-State had never seen anything like it before, at least, not dressed as a Wildcat. The 1998 team is the only K-State team, I believe, to have an undefeated regular season, and come within 3 minutes of playing in the national championship game (we would have dominated Tennessee). The 1998 squad was ranked #2 in the nation. The defense didn't give up more than nine points until the Nebraska game (30). And if you want to compare breakthroughs, Bishop lead K-State to its first win against NU in 30 years. Bishop's two year record is 22-3. He was the first Wildcat to be invited to the Heisman ceremonies, even though Ricky Williams was a lock to win the award. For the season, the team scored 610 points vs. giving up 197 on defense. Fumbles and penalties were the glaring deficiencies of that season. After losing to Texas AM, the coaching staff was raided. The collective spirit of the team, fan base, and university was sapped. Bishop tried to will the team to victory over Purdue (Drew Brees, Roosevelt Colvin), but the team was uninspired. Loosing its coaches caught up to the defense, and it surrendered the game-deciding touchdown in the final 30 seconds. The final two games were definitely not the way to end a story book season, but nothing less, the 1998 team was magic.
R.J.

[waks]

I meant never saw him in person.  Bottom line, I think at best they were equals, had Roberson come along first, he would be held in the same esteem.  And had he not had his "altercation" he would be held in higher esteem.  Roberson did 2 things that Bishop could not, pisspound NU in Lincoln, and pisspound the greatest team of all time to get the big 12 CCG.  The 98 team was great, but the 03 team was not far behind if at all.  The 00 team was pretty good, and the 03 team was in a complete different world.

Oklahoma wasn't the greatest team of all time. They lost to LSU right after they lost to us in 2003.

The reason Bishop didn't beat NU in Lincoln was because the NU team was coached by Tom Osborne and they went on to win the national championship. Whereas Ell played a team coached by Frank Solich who was fired right after that season.

Things that Bishop has that Ell doesn't.

A Davey O'Brien award. A 22-3 all time collegiate record. A Fiesta Bowl Victory. A number 1 ranking at one point. 2 junior college national championships (24-0). An invite to the Heisman Trophy ceremony. A win over every Big XII team. Minutes in a junior college baseball game. Two seasons as a starter in Div. 1 football. Can say that he's been drafted, is still playing professionally and has minutes/completions in an NFL game. A penis. Talent.

Bishop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ell Roberson

[JTKSU]

Specail Teams all around greatest player - Crash Ecklar.

Brice Freaking Libel.  That guy seemed to be in on every tackle for fifteen years in a row.  I was amazed that a white kid, no bigger than me, could create so much havoc on a football field.

[goCATSgo]

i would almost bet my life on joe gordon being a ss or fs. I remember he was #1 and played from like 92-95

[coitus]

i would almost bet my life on joe gordon being a ss or fs. I remember he was #1 and played from like 92-95

i would advise against betting your life on that.

here's a little joe gordon background:

big 8 all conference - 1994, 1995 at cornerback
kevin saunders award - 1996 at cornerback
team captain - 1996 at cornerback
1995 hm all american (by nfl draft report) at cornerback
1994 aloha bowl mvp - at cornerback
1996 hula bowl - at cornerback

it's possible you're confusing him with chuck marlowe, a fs.  or you really don't know your ksu history.  and can't read the records file i provided.

[JTKSU]

i would almost bet my life on joe gordon being a ss or fs. I remember he was #1 and played from like 92-95

K-State wasn't entirely healthy either. All-American Chris Canty, who was arrested for drunken driving last month, apparently hadn't had enough to drink Wednesday, as he was forced to leave due to dehydration. One play later Canty's replacement, Demetric Denmark, was burned deep by BYU's James Dye. Sarkisian found him for a 32-yard touchdown with 10:55 to play. Cougar kicker Ethan Pochman's point after was good to cut the gap to 15-12.
      The Cougars got the ball back at their own 40 with five minutes remaining. Two quick completions to Chad Lewis and Kaipo McGuire gave the Cougs first down at the K-State 31. A three-yard scramble by Sarkisian and an incomplete pass to McGuire — in which the Cougar receiver's helmet was knocked off by a vicious hit by safety Mario Smith — and BYU was faced with a 3rd-and-7 at the 28.
      Canty was still out with dehydration, however, and the Wildcats' other star cornerback Joe Gordon left the game after getting banged up. That left freshman corner Lamar Chapman in man-to-man coverage against BYU senior K.O. Kealaluhi.


Didn't realized Canty had been picked up for a Dewey that year.  Anyway, sometimes I confuse Mario Smith with Joe Gordon.  Then again, I was only eighteen when Gordon was drafted, and I was only a freshman, and not nearly the fan I would become the next year.

[coitus]

canty withdrew from thorpe consideration after the dui.  he hands down would have won it that year.

and he was dehydrated because he had too much to drink.  the night before.

that bastard.

[pissclams]

Also, the 2003 team was better than the 1998 team for one reason: Roberson and Sproles.

That combination will never again be matched by any tandem we ever have.

for a football guy you kinda sux

[F-BuckFiddy]

This is it.  After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...

Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner

Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington

K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett

Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.

[steve dave]

This is it.  After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...

Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner

Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington

K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett

Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.

This is a good list spanning the years.  Having not seen a lot of those guys play in person, my list would be '97-'03 heavy and probably not be fairly representative.  That being said your list sucks for having Ben Leber and not Jeff Kelly in the honorable mention.

[yosh]

This is it.  After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...

Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner

Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington

K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett

Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.

You win 

[Kat Kid]

Goolsby would be my choice over Rock at FB.  Didn't run the ball much but hit harder than anyone we have ever had on offense.  Also, he gets extra credit fo rbeing a hell of a basketball player.

Goolsby?

Rock is a career NFL guy and was a terrific blocking as well as recieving fb.  Travis Wilson is still probably the best we've had at this level.

[swish1]

This is it.  After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...

Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner

Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington

K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett

Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.

how can you put lockett ahead of david allen as KR?

[Kat Kid]

I seriously can't believe that cire's arguments gloss over the fact that he never saw Bishop play.  That alone is indicative of the ignorance.

I saw Bishop play in person 17 times in two years.  I followed Ell's career closely.

To say that people don't think Roberson is better because of the hotel incident, or that the 2003 team could've won the NC or whatever pathetic argument you have is stupid.

Bishop as a starter: 23-3
Ell: 24-11 by my count *excluded beginning of 2002 until colorado game/wasn't sure about 2001 starters

Using their best years (senior seasons)
Bishop's help on Offense:  ('98 season) Aaron Lockett (928 yards 6TDs), Darnell McDonald (1,092 yards 9TDs) Eric Hickson (169 attempts for 902 yards ? on TDs)
Ell's help on Offense:  Darren Sproles (statistically speaking the single greatest season a KSU running back has ever had 1,986 yards 16 TDs 6.49 YPC!!!) James Terry (1,232 yards is a single season school record and 13TDs)

Bishop vs. Roberson:

Throwing
Bishop:  2,844 yards 23 TDs 164/295 56%
Roberson: 2,545 24 TDs 152/294 52%

Running
Bishop:  748 yards  14 TDs
Roberson: 975 yards 15 TDs

Factoring in that Ell Roberson had at his side a running back putting up eye popping numbers and a Heisman candidate in his own right and lost many more games than 'the Bish' I think it is safe to say that Bishop was better.  Although the numbers were closer than I expected, Bishop also only had the benefit of two yrs. in the system straight from JuCo.

[F-BuckFiddy]

This is it.  After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...

Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner

Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington

K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett

Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.

how can you put lockett ahead of david allen as KR?

That was a tough one.  They both had good numbers.  I just felt that Allen had some better special teams to work with and A-Lock never really recovered after the Polamalu hit.  Bottom line- pretty even in terms of production- I just thought Lockett brought more to the table.

[swish1]

This is it.  After 20 or so minutes of exhaustive research...

Offense
QB- Bishop
RB- Sproles
WR- K. Lockett
WR- Morgan
WR- Mike Smith
TE- Coffman
LT- Brooks
LG- Leckey
C- Neujahr
RG- Jacox
RT- Weiner

Defense
DE- Howard
DT- Colston
DT- Fatafehi
DE- Alexander
LB- Spani
LB- Barta
LB- Simoneau
CB- Newman
CB- Canty
FS- Mendez
SS- Washington

K- Gramatica
P- Snyder
KR- Aaron Lockett

Honorable Mention- Ell Roberson, Terry Pierce, Veryl Switzer, Steve Grogan, Lynn Dickey, Ryan Young, Jeremetrius Butler, Darnell McDonald, Justin Swift, Kenny McEntyre, Josh Scobey, Nyle Wiren, Ben Leber, Rock Cartwright, Jarrod Cooper, Dyshod Carter.

how can you put lockett ahead of david allen as KR?

That was a tough one.  They both had good numbers.  I just felt that Allen had some better special teams to work with and A-Lock never really recovered after the Polamalu hit.  Bottom line- pretty even in terms of production- I just thought Lockett brought more to the table.

it just seems like teams were always more concerned about david allen beating them than they were with lockett.  i have no statistical evidence to back me up but im pretty sure teams kicked away from allen more than they did lockett.

[Super PurpleCat]

BTW, Roberson is the #1, Bishop is the #2.  I know how exciting Bishop was, I was there with most of you, but what most of us tend to forget is how often Bishop ran into busted plays.  He threw alot of passes in the dirt and alot of times his runs went nowhere.  And he got stuffed in Lincoln baaaad.

Yeah, Roberson never threw any passes in the dirt.   I've had season tickets since 1995 so I had the chance to see both of them in person.  Bishop was one of the most physically gifted QB's you will ever see.  The guy could throw it accurately off his back foot about 70 yards.  He could juke you on the run, or he could bulldoze you and keep on going.  He had it all.  Roberson was good, but he was certainly no Michael Bishop.  Also, I can't believe Darnell McDonald hasn't made this list.  He had some of the hugest games ever for us.

Cireksu, how can you say Roberson is better if you never saw Bishop play?  This baffles me.

Bishop was a harder thrower.  Roberson could be more accurate.  Bishop was a harder runner.  Roberson was more sneaky.  Bishop got into a bad streak easier and melted down harder.  Roberson could've taken that 1998 team to the title game.

Don't get me wrong, I thought Bishop was amazing seeing him in person, but I believe numbers and results will back me up in saying Roberson was better.  I think the novelty of being ranked #1 in 1998 and being on top like that for the first time as KSU fans is the source of the good feelings we remember.  By Roberson's time we were getting anxious that 1998 would never happen again, and we were a bit more jaded in 2003.

[fatty fat fat]

bishop WAS our offense in 98.

Seriously, by the end of the year it was just him.

His RB's blew.

[cireksu]

I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.

[fatty fat fat]

that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.

that, is, insane.

[swish1]

i still cant believe that there are people saying roberson was better than bishop.  roberson lost 3 games in 1 season with a crappy big 12 north.  bishop lost 3 games in 2 years with a MUCH better big 12 north.  roberson never got us even close to a national championship.  bishop's only fault is that he choked away the biggest game of his career.  roberson choked away games that didnt matter as much.

[waks]

I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.

that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.

that, is, insane.

Fatty just killed Cire.

[cireksu]

I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.

that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.

that, is, insane.

Fatty just killed Cire.

Schedule was terrible.  Terrraaaabbbblllleee.

[steve dave]

Don't get me wrong, I thought Bishop was amazing seeing him in person, but I believe numbers and results will back me up in saying Roberson was better.  I think the novelty of being ranked #1 in 1998 and being on top like that for the first time as KSU fans is the source of the good feelings we remember.  By Roberson's time we were getting anxious that 1998 would never happen again, and we were a bit more jaded in 2003.

Agreed 100% except for your whole post.  Bishop was 10 times the player Roberson was and I refuse to believe you saw Bishop in person if you still think Ell was better.  Unless you did, in which case it is 420 so I will give you a break this one time.

[fatty fat fat]

I think it was more that the offense as a whole blew because bishop was so limited in his understanding and what they could call.

that offense averaged 48.33 points per game.

that, is, insane.

Fatty just killed Cire.

Schedule was terrible.  Terrraaaabbbblllleee.

43 ppg in big 12 play.

Lowest PPG outing = 16 pts @#14 CU
2nd lowest PPG outing = 31 pts @MU

Holy &@#%.

[cireksu]

Lowest output 03 20 pts. twice, Marshall (W/O roberson) and @ texas.  don't hold the point output of the 03 team against them bc of the shoddy run defense.

[steve dave]

43 ppg in big 12 play.

Lowest PPG outing = 16 pts @#14 CU
2nd lowest PPG outing = 31 pts @MU

Holy *&^^.

Fantastic.  What do you think the score would be '98 vs. '03? 

EDIT:  It would be 41-24 for those keeping score.  Who won?

[fatty fat fat]

Lowest output 03 20 pts. twice, Marshall (W/O roberson) and @ texas.  don't hold the point output of the 03 team against them bc of the shoddy run defense.

it was a great offense. you said the 1998 offense "blew"

That is the point of my last couple of posts, to show how retarded those statements were.

[cireksu]

my statement about the 98 offense was in reference to numerous people stating that Bishop was the whole team in 98, which IMO meant that he didn't know the offense and did more than was designed.  Hence the fumble in the biggest game in KSU fb history.  And the Schedule was horrible in 98 and kept us borderline on the CCG despite the "dominance".