Your All K-state team?

[Chet Stedman]

Remember when Ell fumbled away the Texas game in 2003?  Driving late when we had the lead, fumbled it.  VY came in and threw the long pass and Texas took the game.  That leads to the Okie State loss also.  I'm not taking anything away from Ell, he had a great career and Bishops fumble was bigger but still...

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/recap?gid=200310040083


(Spare me the inevitable "it was his first game back from injury" argument.  I know it.)

[rjd27]

No. 1 QB: Bishop
No. 2 QB: Jonathan Beasley, only QB to lead K-State to back-2-back bowl wins. Not saying he was as good as Roberson, but he was steady.
KR, PR: David Allen, Aaron Lockett
Defense: Travis Ochs, Josh Buhl, Mario Smith
Cooper did pile up the penalties, and he had his coverage flaws, but he brought that nasty streak, that fierce attitude, to the defense. Surround him with playmakers, and let him be the "loose cannon."
R.J.

[WildWillie21]

Specail Teams all around greatest player - Crash Ecklar.

[The Minister]

Any list that doesn't have Quentin Neujhar at center is wrong.  There will be no exceptions made to this rule.  UNANIMOUS All Big 8 by coaches and writers (on EVERY ballot) back in 93 when NU, OU, and CU were all still national contenders every year.

Off soap box.

[Super PurpleCat]

Remember when Ell fumbled away the Texas game in 2003?  Driving late when we had the lead, fumbled it.  VY came in and threw the long pass and Texas took the game.

Yes, I remember it well.  I remember that the Texas defender who caused the fumble did a damn good job at stripping the ball.  Texas was a good team that year.

[Super PurpleCat]

BTW, Roberson is the #1, Bishop is the #2.  I know how exciting Bishop was, I was there with most of you, but what most of us tend to forget is how often Bishop ran into busted plays.  He threw alot of passes in the dirt and alot of times his runs went nowhere.  And he got stuffed in Lincoln baaaad.

[PoetWarrior]

ROBERSON

[cireksu]

Thank god others see the light.

I will admit that I am very biased because I never saw Bishop play and don't have an emotional attachment to him.

[goCATSgo]

nobody agrees with u cire the only thing close to agreeing with you was the guy that said "surround him with good players and he is good

i cant believe you would take cooper over washington, mendez, and gordon

and show me the stats that says he had the most tackles of anbody in the secondary

BTW safties usually do get a lot of "unassisted tackles" because they are the last resort, look how many solos Watts has in his career dumbass

[cireksu]

Swift and probably even Hill were better than Shad Meier 

Swift maybe, forgot about him, but you bring up hill had too many injuries.

Chris Johnson has to be on the list, isn't he the career leader in sacks?

McGraw and Mendez are both light years better than Coop, so was Rashaad Washington. 

[catdude33]

BTW, Roberson is the #1, Bishop is the #2.  I know how exciting Bishop was, I was there with most of you, but what most of us tend to forget is how often Bishop ran into busted plays.  He threw alot of passes in the dirt and alot of times his runs went nowhere.  And he got stuffed in Lincoln baaaad.

Yeah, Roberson never threw any passes in the dirt.  I've had season tickets since 1995 so I had the chance to see both of them in person.  Bishop was one of the most physically gifted QB's you will ever see.  The guy could throw it accurately off his back foot about 70 yards.  He could juke you on the run, or he could bulldoze you and keep on going.  He had it all.  Roberson was good, but he was certainly no Michael Bishop.  Also, I can't believe Darnell McDonald hasn't made this list.  He had some of the hugest games ever for us.

Cireksu, how can you say Roberson is better if you never saw Bishop play?  This baffles me.

[goCATSgo]

i was just thinking the same thing about darnell, i think he was our second best wr of all time behind morgan.

[kst8cat]

Cooper was good in 98 and 99, but he regressed during his senior year in 2000.  In fact, he was almost a weak spot as I recall.  Wasn't he hit by an automobile or something that offseason?

[Dan Rydell]

There is no question who the #1 QB at KSU is.  None whatsoever.  Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.

Michael Bishop was a special player.  I go back and watch my tapes from 1998 and can't believe how good that team was.  It would have probably beaten the 2003 team about 35-14.  

Jeebus, people.  All you have to remember is that aTm was ranked 10th in the polls and 8th in the BCS going into that game, and it was a HUGE upset...stunning...when they won.

That Kansas State team pounded everyone it played until it came down to Nebraska, Mizzou, and aTm.  

[chum1]

Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.

Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher.  It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.

[kst8cat]

That Kansas State team pounded everyone it played until it came down to Nebraska, Mizzou, and aTm. 

.........and Purdue.

 

[cireksu]

I meant never saw him in person.  Bottom line, I think at best they were equals, had Roberson come along first, he would be held in the same esteem.  And had he not had his "altercation" he would be held in higher esteem.  Roberson did 2 things that Bishop could not, pisspound NU in Lincoln, and pisspound the greatest team of all time to get the big 12 CCG.  The 98 team was great, but the 03 team was not far behind if at all.  The 00 team was pretty good, and the 03 team was in a complete different world.

[PoetWarrior]

I saw virtually every second of every game that both Bishop and Roberson played and there is no doubt in my mind that Roberson was better.

He was Snyder's vision of what a quarterback should be, which was a perfect vision, and he was nearly perfect in the role.

Run first, throw deep, throw hard.

Win games.

The Bishop supporters almost certainly cannot get past Roberson's sophomore year...

[chum1]

The Bishop supporters almost certainly cannot get past Roberson's sophomore year...

It's his horrible throwing accuracy for me.  That's kind of an important element of the game for QB's.  FYI.

[PoetWarrior]

Also, the 2003 team was better than the 1998 team for one reason: Roberson and Sproles.

That combination will never again be matched by any tandem we ever have.

[PoetWarrior]

The Bishop supporters almost certainly cannot get past Roberson's sophomore year...

It's his horrible throwing accuracy for me.  That's kind of an important element of the game for QB's.  FYI.

56% or so as a senior, I believe.

Plenty good enough for a "running quarterback".

[Fledermaus]

Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.

Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher.  It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.

anybody here ever heard of LYNN DICKEY or STEVE GROGAN?

I never saw them in college, and you can't compare stats b/c they were on much less talented teams.  However, if you consider that each had long and successful careers as starting QBs in the NFL, then both are arguably >>> than Bishop and Roberson.

At least Spani made the list.

[chum1]

Contrary to the belief of homer and insane (PoetWarrior) KSU fans, we were also nowhere near a national championship with Roberson.  Bishop was clearly more of a winner.

[chum1]

Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.

Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher.  It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.

anybody here ever heard of LYNN DICKEY or STEVE GROGAN?

I never saw them in college, and you can't compare stats b/c they were on much less talented teams.  However, if you consider that each had long and successful careers as starting QBs in the NFL, then both are arguably >>> than Bishop and Roberson.

At least Spani made the list.

Yeah, you're probably right.  I think lists like this are stupid.  I just commented due to the Roberson lovers who are even more stupid.

[cireksu]

Paul Coffman should have made the list too, but his douchebag son Chase ruined it for him.

[cireksu]

Anyone who says Roberson either never saw Bishop play or else is 12 years old.

Yeah, it seems like everyone that has seen both play rate Bishop much higher.  It's pretty clear why people favor Roberson.

anybody here ever heard of LYNN DICKEY or STEVE GROGAN?

I never saw them in college, and you can't compare stats b/c they were on much less talented teams.  However, if you consider that each had long and successful careers as starting QBs in the NFL, then both are arguably >>> than Bishop and Roberson.

At least Spani made the list.

Yeah, you're probably right.  I think lists like this are stupid.  I just commented due to the Roberson lovers who are even more stupid.

More stupid than Michael Bishop?

[ksuno1stunner]

IIRC, Roberson was rated a 95 on the ps2 game.

Also, IIRC, the running game set up long passes, debunking the "low passing accuracy = bad quarterback" theory.  Didn't we average around 20 yards per reception during the Bishop/Beasley/Roberson era?

[Trog]

somewhere on the depth chart I'm sticking in WR Smith & Fernandez 

[coitus]

kst8cat - coop tore his pec and wasn't quite the same after that.  but he's cashed a nfl paycheck every year since, and that aint shabby.

i cant believe you would take cooper over washington, mendez, and gordon

and show me the stats that says he had the most tackles of anbody in the secondary

BTW safties usually do get a lot of "unassisted tackles" because they are the last resort, look how many solos Watts has in his career dumbass

goCATSgo - you're so stupid it aint funny.  you have no idea what you're talking about.

mendez was a free safety, and that's where i put him.  gordon was a CORNERBACK.

here's the link that has cooper all over the boards with tackles:  http://www.kstatesports.com/pdf5/41380.pdf?SPSID=3064&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400

#12 in career total tackles, only dbs ahead of him are hundley (fs) with 4 more tackles and mendez, another fs, with 3 more tackles.  you'll note that washington and gordon don't make the top twenty-five.

as for your blithering stupidity about safeties and unassisted tackles, well, look at the list.

cooper at #4, behind three lbs (simoneau, buhl and spani).  ahead of mendez.  and there's more front 7 players on the unassisted tackles list than dbs.

cooper was also second team all american by at least one publication.  please name another ksu strong safety that ever got that recognition.  you won't find one.  you also wont find a ksu ss with third team recognition.  or honorable mention.

end of the day, cooper dominates every other ksu ss in history in total tackles, unassisted tackles, all-american recognition.

but he missed a tackle his freshman season.

[WildCatzPhreak]

You know why these type of threads aren't stupid?

It's the offseason.

As far as some of the older guys like Lynn Dickie are concerned, I think they were great for their time.  But if you lined up a team of each player in their prime, would you honestly rather have someone like Bishop/Roberson or Dickie?  The choice is pretty easy for me. 

The game is just different now than it was back then.