Thank you KC Star. K-State must now take action!!!

[AzCat]

To hire the equivalent of Doc Sadler, give him pretty much zero talent for the future (Hoskins, Stew, Young all SRs) and then put him a year behind pretty much every other program besides CU would be more risky IMO than what we did.

It would be more than risky, it would be asinine at best and more likely suicide for the program.

[TheShocker]

The guy knows the game, knows how to teach the game, has recruiting ties and coached under one of the most successful coaches in the game for a couple years.  Do you think he just needs more years under his collegiate belt to be ready?  I don't get it.

How do you know all these things about Martin? From his stellar record as an assistant coach? From his high school coaching success? With future NBA players like Udonis Haslem and Steve Blake on a high school team I think a soiled diaper could coach that team to a nice record.

[Pike]

This is a horrible idea. Gangstas never appologize, especially to their victims.

[TheShocker]

You're absolutely right. If KSU did not have all this talent coming in Martin never would have even been considered for the head coaching position.

And you're missing the point.  The toughest part about being a successful D-I coach is delivering the talent necessary to compete at the highest levels.  Martin has proven that he can do that in spades so why shouldn't he get a shot?  The Big XII has a few coaches who couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag but who manage to meet with some success because they're lights out recruiters. 

Did I miss something? Who is Martin responsible for bringing in? Colon and Bennett? Who else?

[AzCat]

You're absolutely right. If KSU did not have all this talent coming in Martin never would have even been considered for the head coaching position.

And you're missing the point.  The toughest part about being a successful D-I coach is delivering the talent necessary to compete at the highest levels.  Martin has proven that he can do that in spades so why shouldn't he get a shot?  The Big XII has a few coaches who couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag but who manage to meet with some success because they're lights out recruiters. 

Did I miss something? Who is Martin responsible for bringing in? Colon and Bennett? Who else?

Martin retained Hill, between the two of them they're responsible for bringing in the #1 class in the country.  When's the last time the #1 class in the nation (including the #1 player in the natio) was headed to KSU?  We'll see how well Martin recruits in future years but for the moment, judged solely on incoming talent, his connections would appear to be better than those of any other coach in the nation, no?

[kst8cat]

Also, at a charity function, Martin pointed out a reporter who wrote a derogatory article about him to some of his friends in what sounds like may have been a threatening nature. 

The guy never said it was a threatening nature.  I'm certain that if it had been, the dude would have been thrilled to report that.  No need to make assumptions that a tabloid journalist wouldn't even allege.

[TheShocker]

Martin retained Hill, between the two of them they're responsible for bringing in the #1 class in the country.  When's the last time the #1 class in the nation (including the #1 player in the natio) was headed to KSU?  We'll see how well Martin recruits in future years but for the moment, judged solely on incoming talent, his connections would appear to be better than those of any other coach in the nation, no?

No. You can't give too much credit to Martin for bringing in the number 1 recruiting class because we all know that Hill and Huggins had a hell of a lot more to do with that then Martin did.

[coitus]

if i didn't think martin would continue to recruit better talent than we've had in the past (not necessarily grcoat tho) i wouldn't have supported the hire.

[TheShocker]

if i didn't think martin would continue to recruit better talent than we've had in the past (not necessarily grcoat tho) i wouldn't have supported the hire.

I understand that. What I don't understand is why you think Martin will have success in bringing in top notch talent. What has he done to lead you to believe that he is capable of doing so?

[ksu_FAN]

if i didn't think martin would continue to recruit better talent than we've had in the past (not necessarily grcoat tho) i wouldn't have supported the hire.

I understand that. What I don't understand is why you think Martin will have success in bringing in top notch talent. What has he done to lead you to believe that he is capable of doing so?

He has established connections with High School basketball in Florida, especially Miami, Florida AAU ball, and Florida JUCOs.  Though he didn't live up to the hype of being the #8 JUCO player last year, Martin is credited with bringing in Blake Young as well as Colon.  Was a major player in bringing in Fred Brown from this year's class.  Also did some of the recruiting of Jason Bennett and Bill Walker (though we know that was mainly Huggs).

[KSUTOMMY]

I too will take the gamble, what are the alternatives more retread coaches? Another Wooly? No thanks. If we can get a little bit of success, we should have already proven that a good coach can recruit ANYWHERE... including NC KS. Look at Mack Brown, is he that good of a coach, hell no! Recruiter, absolutley - what part of that NC did he have to do with and what part was Vince Young being a FREAK?

[steve dave]

Did I miss something? Who is Martin responsible for bringing in? Colon and Bennett? Who else?

Merriweather, that's who!  Now how do you feel big man....  in case you don't know who that is, he sits on the end of the bench next to this guy and probably will stay there.

[coitus]

if i didn't think martin would continue to recruit better talent than we've had in the past (not necessarily grcoat tho) i wouldn't have supported the hire.

I understand that. What I don't understand is why you think Martin will have success in bringing in top notch talent. What has he done to lead you to believe that he is capable of doing so?

He has established connections with High School basketball in Florida, especially Miami, Florida AAU ball, and Florida JUCOs.  Though he didn't live up to the hype of being the #8 JUCO player last year, Martin is credited with bringing in Blake Young as well as Colon.  Was a major player in bringing in Fred Brown from this year's class.  Also did some of the recruiting of Jason Bennett and Bill Walker (though we know that was mainly Huggs).

and, as the haters have made quite clear, while in miami he recruited nba talent consistently.

[DrunkoMcGee]

You're absolutely right. If KSU did not have all this talent coming in Martin never would have even been considered for the head coaching position.

And you're missing the point.  The toughest part about being a successful D-I coach is delivering the talent necessary to compete at the highest levels.  Martin has proven that he can do that in spades so why shouldn't he get a shot?  The Big XII has a few coaches who couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag but who manage to meet with some success because they're lights out recruiters. 

Seriously, who has Frank Martin brought into Northeastern, Cincy, or KSU that would make him some sort of great recruiter?  Remember, Walker came with Huggins and Beasley was going to go wherever Dalonte Hill went.

[yosh]

You're absolutely right. If KSU did not have all this talent coming in Martin never would have even been considered for the head coaching position.

And you're missing the point.  The toughest part about being a successful D-I coach is delivering the talent necessary to compete at the highest levels.  Martin has proven that he can do that in spades so why shouldn't he get a shot?  The Big XII has a few coaches who couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag but who manage to meet with some success because they're lights out recruiters. 

Seriously, who has Frank Martin brought into Northeastern, Cincy, or KSU that would make him some sort of great recruiter?  Remember, Walker came with Huggins and Beasley was going to go wherever Dalonte Hill went.

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=11378.0
http://www.nba.com/draft2006/profiles/Jose%20JuanBarea.html

[michigancat]

Attn: Haters

1)  Look up Jamie Dixon's resume at the time he was hired by Pitt.
2)  Compare to Frank Martin's
3)  STFU

[michigancat]

You're absolutely right. If KSU did not have all this talent coming in Martin never would have even been considered for the head coaching position.

And you're missing the point.  The toughest part about being a successful D-I coach is delivering the talent necessary to compete at the highest levels.  Martin has proven that he can do that in spades so why shouldn't he get a shot?  The Big XII has a few coaches who couldn't coach their way out of a paper bag but who manage to meet with some success because they're lights out recruiters. 

Seriously, who has Frank Martin brought into Northeastern, Cincy, or KSU that would make him some sort of great recruiter?  Remember, Walker came with Huggins and Beasley was going to go wherever Dalonte Hill went.

Here's how bad the Duquesne job has become: The school is about to hire Ron Everhart of Northeastern. Understand two things about Everhart: One, he didn't start winning at Northeastern until he hired an assistant coach from Miami named Frank Martin, at which point Martin began delivering players like Jose Juan Barea -- at which point Northeastern began to win.

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/weblogs/entry/8450/032006

[steve dave]

Seriously, who has Frank Martin brought into Northeastern, Cincy, or KSU that would make him some sort of great recruiter?  Remember, Walker came with Huggins and Beasley was going to go wherever Dalonte Hill went.

Fred Brown & Jacob Pullen

[TheShocker]

Attn: Haters

1)  Look up Jamie Dixon's resume at the time he was hired by Pitt.
2)  Compare to Frank Martin's
3)  STFU

Awesome rebuttal! Case closed!!!!!

[ksu_FAN]

Also, another snipet from Doyel last year:

Kansas State: Former Cincinnati assistant Frank Martin had a choice -- follow former boss Bob Huggins to Kansas State, or follow Andy Kennedy to Ole Miss -- and Martin chose Huggins and the Wildcats. Martin is one of the country's most effective recruiters of South Florida.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Attn: Haters

1)  Look up Jamie Dixon's resume at the time he was hired by Pitt.
2)  Compare to Frank Martin's
3)  STFU

So you have about a 1 in 100 shot that Frank Martin becomes Jamie Dixon.  Fair enough.  Because seriously, Jamie Dixon is about the only guy that has a resume even close to as bare as what Frank Martin has that has had success at a big time level.  Dixon coached under Howland for years though.  Martin coached under Huggy(not as good as Howland) for 2 years.

And really, you are bringing me Jose Juan Barea as the evidence that Frank Martin is a big time recruiter at a Big 12 level?  LOL. 

[DrunkoMcGee]

Seriously, who has Frank Martin brought into Northeastern, Cincy, or KSU that would make him some sort of great recruiter?  Remember, Walker came with Huggins and Beasley was going to go wherever Dalonte Hill went.

Fred Brown & Jacob Pullen

Are you kidding?  Cartier Martin was a much more heralded recruit than either of those guys. 

[TheShocker]

Dixon's Resume:
Coach, Los Angeles Valley Junior College, 1989-91; Assistant Coach, University of California-Santa Barbara, 1991-92; Assistant Coach, University of Hawaii, 1992-94; Assistant Coach, Northern Arizona University, 1994-98; Assistant Coach, University of Hawaii, 1998-99; Associate Head Coach, University of Pittsburgh, 1999-2003

Dixon has been a coach on the D1 level since 1991. He was the Associate Head Coach at Pitt for 4 years before being named head coach. LOL at Rusty for trying to compare Dixon and Martin.

[JesusShuttlesworth]

Drunko,

Please, no more posting in my thread.  You are just not very smart, and you bring the level of discussion way, way down.  

[DrunkoMcGee]

Dixon's Resume:
Coach, Los Angeles Valley Junior College, 1989-91; Assistant Coach, University of California-Santa Barbara, 1991-92; Assistant Coach, University of Hawaii, 1992-94; Assistant Coach, Northern Arizona University, 1994-98; Assistant Coach, University of Hawaii, 1998-99; Associate Head Coach, University of Pittsburgh, 1999-2003

Dixon has been a coach on the D1 level since 1991. He was the Associate Head Coach at Pitt for 4 years before being named head coach. LOL at Rusty for trying to compare Dixon and Martin.

Thanks for looking that up.  I just assumed Rusty knew what he was talking about.  Clearly, that was an error in judgement on my part.

[DrunkoMcGee]

Drunko,

Please, no more posting in my thread.  You are just not very smart, and you bring the level of discussion way, way down.  

Other than me assuming that Rusty knew what he was talking about with regards to Jamie Dixon, which posts of mine in this thread are off base in your opinion?

Maybe you can cry to the mods and try to get me banned.  That is all you are good for.

[yosh]

Attn: Haters

1)  Look up Jamie Dixon's resume at the time he was hired by Pitt.
2)  Compare to Frank Martin's
3)  STFU

So you have about a 1 in 100 shot that Frank Martin becomes Jamie Dixon.  Fair enough.  Because seriously, Jamie Dixon is about the only guy that has a resume even close to as bare as what Frank Martin has that has had success at a big time level.  Dixon coached under Howland for years though.  Martin coached under Huggy(not as good as Howland) for 2 years.

And really, you are bringing me Jose Juan Barea as the evidence that Frank Martin is a big time recruiter at a Big 12 level?  LOL. 

LOL  Juan Jose Barea plays for the Dallas Mavericks.  How many Big 12 teams wouldn't take a NBA point guard?  I'm embarassed for you.

[JesusShuttlesworth]

Drunko,

Please, no more posting in my thread.  You are just not very smart, and you bring the level of discussion way, way down.  

Other than me assuming that Rusty knew what he was talking about with regards to Jamie Dixon, which posts of mine in this thread are off base in your opinion?

Maybe you can cry to the mods and try to get me banned.  That is all you are good for.

I said "please". 

[michigancat]

Attn: Haters

1)  Look up Jamie Dixon's resume at the time he was hired by Pitt.
2)  Compare to Frank Martin's
3)  STFU

So you have about a 1 in 100 shot that Frank Martin becomes Jamie Dixon.  Fair enough.  Because seriously, Jamie Dixon is about the only guy that has a resume even close to as bare as what Frank Martin has that has had success at a big time level.  Dixon coached under Howland for years though.  Martin coached under Huggy(not as good as Howland) for 2 years.

And really, you are bringing me Jose Juan Barea as the evidence that Frank Martin is a big time recruiter at a Big 12 level?  LOL. 

Name coaches that have been under circumstances similar to Martin's and failed:

1)  Coach left w/o getting fired
2)  Promoted from within

The three I can think of off the top of my head are Jamie Dixon, Rod Barnes, and Tom Izzo.  Barnes got fired, but had 3 or 4 pretty damn good years before it happened.  Where do you get 1 in 100?

You don't seem to understand that resumes don't do any coaching. 

Also, who did Dixon recruit to Northern Arizona that was comparable to Barea?

Dixon's Resume:
Coach, Los Angeles Valley Junior College, 1989-91; Assistant Coach, University of California-Santa Barbara, 1991-92; Assistant Coach, University of Hawaii, 1992-94; Assistant Coach, Northern Arizona University, 1994-98; Assistant Coach, University of Hawaii, 1998-99; Associate Head Coach, University of Pittsburgh, 1999-2003

Dixon has been a coach on the D1 level since 1991. He was the Associate Head Coach at Pitt for 4 years before being named head coach. LOL at Rusty for trying to compare Dixon and Martin.

Let's break it down in levels.

High Major:  Dixon coached for 4 years at Pitt, Martin coached for 3 years at Cincy and KSU
Mid Major before high Major:  Dixon coached for 1 year at Hawaii, one year at NAU.  Martin coached for 4 years at Northeastern
Before that:  Dixon coached 1 year at UCSB and 2 years at Hawaii.  Martin was in high school.

What you guys are saying is that if Dixon didn't have 1 year at UCSB and 2 years at Hawaii, he would have been woefully underqualified and probably a huge failure.  Thankfully, his three years under Riley Wallace and Jerry Pimm made him a Big East Coach of the year and coach of a top 25 team.  Makes sense.

[TheShocker]

I just wanted to thank Rusty for solidifying my argument by introducing Jaime Dixon into the discussion. Dixon, who was a somewhat questionable hire by Pitt at the time, started coaching D1 ball in 1991.

Frank Martin didn't start coaching HIGH SCHOOL ball until 1993.