Just got done watching some old games..

[WildCatzPhreak]

97 Fiesta Bowl, 98 Nebraska, 00 Cotton Bowl, 02 USC, 03 Oklahoma

A couple observations
The game was a lot different than now and how I remembered it.
Michael Bishop had the strongest arm for a QB I've ever seen.  He was throwing huge bombs while in the air (no feet planted)
I dare say Roberson was more accurate and a better runner than Bishop, but not near the arm.  (All of bishops throws were rockets)
Our linebackers were HUUUUGE 97-00.  Simeneau(sp?) was a &*$@!ing beast. 
We used a lot more JUCO players than I thought.
Our team size in general looked a lot bigger than anything I've seen over the last 4 years.
Snyder played a risky defense, often having a linebacker come up to have a 5 man front, risky for big plays but often ended up destroying the ball carrier in the backfield.
97-98 We ran 2/3rds of our plays.  Lots of up the gut(our o-line kicked ass) and lots of option.  When we weren't doing this, we Bishop would throw that &*$@!er 40 yards.  Somehow a receiver almost always got ahold of it.
00 and 02 our defense was &*$@!ing awesome.
We shifted from a "size and strength" team to a "speed and finesse" team somewhere from 98-03.  Maybe this is what killed Snyder in 04 and 05?
Donovan Mcnabb is a badass.  Our linebackers absolutely crushed him every play, some of them bordering late hits.  Somehow he would still get up.
I saw the infamous nubb facemask in 98.  Holy @#%$ it was fast.  Ochs destroyed Crouch.
USC was really &*$@!ing good in 02.  Carson Palmer was a beast.  And yet our defense still crushed them.
Beasley was fat.  But somehow still amazing at the option.  Not the best runner or passer, but extremely smart.
How the &*$@! was TNew only rated a 2 star out of high school?  The guy's an amazing athlete.
We had an amazing fullback in 97-98.  Better than anything afterwards IMO.
Sproles was amazing.  It's a shame his senior year was destroyed by a horrible o-line.

The biggest thing:
Our whole strategy 97-02 was
Offense - We're gonna run on you.  Up the gut, to the side, option, QB, HB, FB, doesn't matter.  If you try to crowd the front to stop the run, we're gonna throw.  And when we throw deep, we make huge plays and score.
Defense - We're going to get in your backfield and hurt you.  Constant blitzing from all directions.  Corners.  Linebackers moving up to the front quite often.  We were very good at it.  If you do get by us, you'll probably make a big play, but we have good safeties to keep you from going the distance.
Special teams - Got called for blocking in the backfield a LOT.  But when we didn't, we'd get HUGE returns out of this.  Also, Gramatica was insane.




Nostalgia I guess.  I'm going to miss that style of play.  The risky offense and defense.  The "this is our game, we're gonna play it no matter what schemes you throw at us" mentality.  The QB run and option game.  I'm not a big fan of the WCO after watching these.  I hate that we switched to it.  Hell, I hate that Nebraska switched to it.  They were a lot more fun to  watch back then.  I definitely don't think most juco's are well suited to running that style of offense.  But I guess that's the way football is headed nowadays.

[ksuno1stunner]

97 Fiesta Bowl, 98 Nebraska, 00 Cotton Bowl, 02 USC, 03 Oklahoma

A couple observations
The game was a lot different than now and how I remembered it.
Michael Bishop had the strongest arm for a QB I've ever seen.  He was throwing huge bombs while in the air (no feet planted)
I dare say Roberson was more accurate and a better runner than Bishop, but not near the arm.  (All of bishops throws were rockets)
Our linebackers were HUUUUGE 97-00.  Simeneau(sp?) was a &*$@!ing beast. 
We used a lot more JUCO players than I thought.
Our team size in general looked a lot bigger than anything I've seen over the last 4 years.
Snyder played a risky defense, often having a linebacker come up to have a 5 man front, risky for big plays but often ended up destroying the ball carrier in the backfield.
97-98 We ran 2/3rds of our plays.  Lots of up the gut(our o-line kicked ass) and lots of option.  When we weren't doing this, we Bishop would throw that &*$@!er 40 yards.  Somehow a receiver almost always got ahold of it.
00 and 02 our defense was &*$@!ing awesome.
We shifted from a "size and strength" team to a "speed and finesse" team somewhere from 98-03.  Maybe this is what killed Snyder in 04 and 05?
Donovan Mcnabb is a badass.  Our linebackers absolutely crushed him every play, some of them bordering late hits.  Somehow he would still get up.
I saw the infamous nubb facemask in 98.  Holy @#%$ it was fast.  Ochs destroyed Crouch.
USC was really &*$@!ing good in 02.  Carson Palmer was a beast.  And yet our defense still crushed them.
Beasley was fat.  But somehow still amazing at the option.  Not the best runner or passer, but extremely smart.
How the &*$@! was TNew only rated a 2 star out of high school?  The guy's an amazing athlete.
We had an amazing fullback in 97-98.  Better than anything afterwards IMO.
Sproles was amazing.  It's a shame his senior year was destroyed by a horrible o-line.

The biggest thing:
Our whole strategy 97-02 was
Offense - We're gonna run on you.  Up the gut, to the side, option, QB, HB, FB, doesn't matter.  If you try to crowd the front to stop the run, we're gonna throw.  And when we throw deep, we make huge plays and score.
Defense - We're going to get in your backfield and hurt you.  Constant blitzing from all directions.  Corners.  Linebackers moving up to the front quite often.  We were very good at it.  If you do get by us, you'll probably make a big play, but we have good safeties to keep you from going the distance.
Special teams - Got called for blocking in the backfield a LOT.  But when we didn't, we'd get HUGE returns out of this.  Also, Gramatica was insane.




Nostalgia I guess.  I'm going to miss that style of play.  The risky offense and defense.  The "this is our game, we're gonna play it no matter what schemes you throw at us" mentality.  The QB run and option game.  I'm not a big fan of the WCO after watching these.  I hate that we switched to it.  Hell, I hate that Nebraska switched to it.  They were a lot more fun to  watch back then.  I definitely don't think most juco's are well suited to running that style of offense.  But I guess that's the way football is headed nowadays.

 

Sometime, I need to watch those late 90's games again.  I was like 10, so I had no idea about anything.

[WildCatzPhreak]

The 97 fiesta bowl was my first k-state game(that I could remember, technically it was one pre-snyder against Army and I was like 2).  It was pretty badass.  I was 12 and didn't really understand anything other than touchdowns were good and we had to outscore the other team.  I do remember complaining once when we were on defense and cuse was moving across the field pretty well that "dad we need to put bishop in!  these guys are killing us!" not understanding anything about the positions and only that bishop was our best player.

[hemmy]

where did you find games from 97 & 98?

[WildCatzPhreak]

where did you find games from 97 & 98?

kstatesports.com

[ds43fan]

i rember like 99 when all of football stated to make since, i also rember that we had a realy good defence at the begining of the year and the offence allways caught up around the middle

[Fledermaus]

y'all make me feel really old...

Damn KSU football was fun to watch in its prime.  But you need to have actually seen some of the late 1980s teams to really appreciate what Snyder accomplished.        

[cireksu]

Our Defenses from 00-02 were physically imposing in 00 I think 3 of our 4 leading tacklers were Dlineman which meant they dominated the LOS.  03 we went more finesse with smaller lb's and it worked because our Dline did a good job of holding down the trenches which allowed buhl and hickman to run and make plays.  We also had a very good pass rush from our ends huntley, houchin, shull, and edmonds, along with montgomery and berry in the middle.

After 03 our Dline and lb talent really dropped significantly, and teams ran and passed at will.



Offensively outside of 01 when we had absolutely no pass threat we were a machine from 97-03(could exclude 99 as well).

[Jayhox]

OX 

[970Cat]

That makes me feel old too.  I was in school then and didn't think there would ever be a fall off in the program like '04 and '05.  Fiesta Bowl 97 was a blast, the game was on NYE and we kicked the shiit out of Syracuse, the party in Tempe was off the chain.  The whole '98 season was sweet too.  Football weekends in Manhattan were such a party, more than any other year I was there, especially the Nebraska weekend.  Check out the $1 bills at O'Malley's, mine is first one right above the "M", from the night of the NU game.  Many Car Bombs.  KSU's offense changed following May with Miller, but really took off under Bishop in '97.  May used to sling it all over the field and we would line up with 4 and 5 wide alot.  Kavanaugh seemed to be a bit the same, just not as strong armed.  Bishop was a freak, he was so much stronger of a runner and thrower than Roberson, but he did lack that finesse Roberson had.  I remember being a freshman in 95 and having University Experience with Simoneau, McIntosh and Darren Howard, you could almost tell then how good KSU was going to become with those guys.

[Powercat Matt]

97 Fiesta Bowl, 98 Nebraska, 00 Cotton Bowl, 02 USC, 03 Oklahoma

A couple observations
The game was a lot different than now and how I remembered it.
Michael Bishop had the strongest arm for a QB I've ever seen.  He was throwing huge bombs while in the air (no feet planted)
I dare say Roberson was more accurate and a better runner than Bishop, but not near the arm.  (All of bishops throws were rockets)
Our linebackers were HUUUUGE 97-00.  Simeneau(sp?) was a &*$@!ing beast. 
We used a lot more JUCO players than I thought.
Our team size in general looked a lot bigger than anything I've seen over the last 4 years.
Snyder played a risky defense, often having a linebacker come up to have a 5 man front, risky for big plays but often ended up destroying the ball carrier in the backfield.
97-98 We ran 2/3rds of our plays.  Lots of up the gut(our o-line kicked ass) and lots of option.  When we weren't doing this, we Bishop would throw that &*$@!er 40 yards.  Somehow a receiver almost always got ahold of it.
00 and 02 our defense was &*$@!ing awesome.
We shifted from a "size and strength" team to a "speed and finesse" team somewhere from 98-03.  Maybe this is what killed Snyder in 04 and 05?
Donovan Mcnabb is a badass.  Our linebackers absolutely crushed him every play, some of them bordering late hits.  Somehow he would still get up.
I saw the infamous nubb facemask in 98.  Holy @#%$ it was fast.  Ochs destroyed Crouch.
USC was really &*$@!ing good in 02.  Carson Palmer was a beast.  And yet our defense still crushed them.
Beasley was fat.  But somehow still amazing at the option.  Not the best runner or passer, but extremely smart.
How the &*$@! was TNew only rated a 2 star out of high school?  The guy's an amazing athlete.
We had an amazing fullback in 97-98.  Better than anything afterwards IMO.
Sproles was amazing.  It's a shame his senior year was destroyed by a horrible o-line.

The biggest thing:
Our whole strategy 97-02 was
Offense - We're gonna run on you.  Up the gut, to the side, option, QB, HB, FB, doesn't matter.  If you try to crowd the front to stop the run, we're gonna throw.  And when we throw deep, we make huge plays and score.
Defense - We're going to get in your backfield and hurt you.  Constant blitzing from all directions.  Corners.  Linebackers moving up to the front quite often.  We were very good at it.  If you do get by us, you'll probably make a big play, but we have good safeties to keep you from going the distance.
Special teams - Got called for blocking in the backfield a LOT.  But when we didn't, we'd get HUGE returns out of this.  Also, Gramatica was insane.




Nostalgia I guess.  I'm going to miss that style of play.  The risky offense and defense.  The "this is our game, we're gonna play it no matter what schemes you throw at us" mentality.  The QB run and option game.  I'm not a big fan of the WCO after watching these.  I hate that we switched to it.  Hell, I hate that Nebraska switched to it.  They were a lot more fun to  watch back then.  I definitely don't think most juco's are well suited to running that style of offense.  But I guess that's the way football is headed nowadays.

the good ole days... 

i was a youngin in the days of the 97 Fiesta Bowl, but my ksu fbiq was surprisingly strong for a kid in elementary school, so i remember everything fairly well. i think bishop had a vapor trail following 80% of his throws. honestly the 97 season is my favorite--no huge letdown like 1998, got on a TV guide cover, destroyed A&M  (we haven't beaten the aggies since then!), got to the Fiesta Bowl and BEAT DOWN donovan mcnabb...AWESOME season! 

[fatty fat fat]

97-03 (7 seasons)

72 wins.

 


1940-1989 (50 seasons)

120 wins.

[ds43fan]

i have good news
the good times will return
 

[970Cat]

Prince needs to establish some continuity within the coaching staff to return to those good times.   Oh and stop fake punting inside your own damn 10 yd. line.

[Dan Rydell]

The biggest thing:
Our whole strategy 97-02 was
Offense - We're gonna run on you.  Up the gut, to the side, option, QB, HB, FB, doesn't matter.  If you try to crowd the front to stop the run, we're gonna throw.  And when we throw deep, we make huge plays and score.

Snyder had a first-hand view of Dr. Tom's success all those years, and year by year you could see KSU moving more that direction.  Back in the mid-90's, you watched the two teams line up and Nebraska still had a significant size advantage.  Then, in 1998, things finally looked even, and a few years later, we beat Nebraska like a red-headed stepchild the same way they used ot beat us.  The thing that Snyder added was more versatility to the Nebraska philosophy..."we're going to run it until you show us you can stop it," but KSU's offense opened up the running game more.  

Defense - We're going to get in your backfield and hurt you.  Constant blitzing from all directions.  Corners.  Linebackers moving up to the front quite often.  We were very good at it.  If you do get by us, you'll probably make a big play, but we have good safeties to keep you from going the distance.

The key to this approach was the cornerbacks...they'd be left out on an island and often the safeties would be brought up closer to the line to support the run defense/quarterback pressure.  Sometimes the corners would get burned, but more often than not teams would just be dominated by the defense.  

Special teams - Got called for blocking in the backfield a LOT.  But when we didn't, we'd get HUGE returns out of this.  Also, Gramatica was insane.

They say that there's always a hold on a return for a TD...the only question is whether it's called or not.  We were very aggressive on returns and had guys looking for big hits out there.

The risky offense and defense.

The offense really wasn't that risky.  Running the ball means you can't throw INTs, and throwing deep, especially down the sidelines, minimizes the chances of INTs...as long as the QBs are overthrowing and not underthrowing receivers.  With Beasley and Roberson, there weren't too many underthrows.

[goCATSgo]

The only game Beasley ran good was the 00 cotton bowl. to say that he was "still amazing at the option" is a huge overstatement, 95% he sucked at the option

[Chet Stedman]

Prince needs to establish some continuity within the coaching staff to return to those good times.   Oh and stop fake punting inside your own damn 10 yd. line.

I get your point...but that one actually worked. 

[tmramrod91]

Beasley may not have been "good" at the option, but he was more than effective with the running game. He averaged apporx. 4 yds per qb sneak. Dont forget....22-4 as a starter, he was a winner if nothing else.

[Jayhox]

OX, again . . . 

[fatty fat fat]

Beaz knew how to get in the endzone.

[The Minister]

The only game Beasley ran good was the 00 cotton bowl. to say that he was "still amazing at the option" is a huge overstatement, 95% he sucked at the option

Big XII record for most rushing TD's in one game by QB (or any back, for that matter) -- 5 vs North Texas.  The Beaz knew how to pound cheeseburgers and then use them to his advantage on Saturdays.  To say he was anything less than a great QB for KSU is just wrong.

All hail the Beaz.

Seriously, think back about how good we were in 2000.  Probably the second best team in the nation -- just that we had to play the best team twice.  Tell me that the option coming down the line with the beef supplied by Beaz, Rock Cartwright, and Josh Scobey wasn't intimidating.

Good times.

[ksuno1stunner]

OX, again . . . 

ku doesn't do anything cool, like the Lynch Mob and the "I can see you but you can't see me".

[Pittcat]

OX, again . . . 

So what do you squawks have going for you?   The Goddess Kerry Meier??  A coach who's game script includes telling a minion to go get five double cheeseburgers and 10 filet-o-fish sandwiches (has less calories 'cause it's fish) mid-way through each quarter?  "Bye Jon Cornish, it was fun not competing for the North Division while you were here."

 

[richmond23]

how about the '01 or maybe it was '00 game against Nebraska in the snow with (I believe) Quincy Morgan jumping over the defender after the pass!  I don't remember what year it was but it was sure fun watching that game in the snow, thinking I got drunk that night too

[Pittcat]

how about the '01 or maybe it was '00 game against Nebraska in the snow with (I believe) Quincy Morgan jumping over the defender after the pass!  I don't remember what year it was but it was sure fun watching that game in the snow, thinking I got drunk that night too

Speaking of getting drunk, I always referred to November 14, 1998 as the "two(instead of too) drunk day.  Once during tailgating.  Quit during the game in order to remember it.  And again afterwards in celebration.  That was one helluva day.

 

[Super PurpleCat]

If we could somehow combine Bishop's strength with Beasley's smarts and Ell's running ability, Sproles in the backfield, then put it behind the 2000 defense and the Martin Gramatica special teams with Terence Newman and David Allen on punt returns, Quincy Morgan and Kevin Lockett going long and Simoneau, Ochs, Howard, Pierce, Wiren, Fatafehi, Super Mario, yes and maybe even Jarod Cooper and Joe Hall...

SIGH!!!

[cireksu]

In his book Snyder said running effectively gives you the best chance to win a game.  He said in the early years they didn't run bc they couldn't, weren't big enough up front to run, so they installed the spread which gave them the best chance to win with poor athletes.  As they recruited better they moved to the power run game.

[WildCatzPhreak]

When I said Beasley was amazing at the option, I wasn't talking about his running ability.  I was talking about his ability to make the defense guess wrong about which direction the ball was going.  He was a master of the fake pitch.

Bishop was just explosive.  Insane arm.  And when he'd run, it was more about "run like hell and plow people over until I'm tackled."  Ell was definitely more finesse.  His passes were probably easier to catch because they didn't have near the power on them.  I think he was slightly more accurate too.  As far as running goes, Ell was probably better at making people miss, but Bishops raw athleticism (and kickass o-line) made it easy for him to run right up the middle for huge gains.

Our offense was -definitely- risky.  The games I watched Bishop would turn it over like 5 times a game.  A LOT of arrant pitches contributed to that.

[WildCatzPhreak]

Fun tidbit.  In 98, our offensive line was the second biggest in all of football, both college and pro.  Second only to the Jacksonville Jaguars.*

*per some dude on gpc.

[ds43fan]

i think Beasley may have been the most underated QB ever, he came right after Bishop and every one was convinced that Roberson was the next Bishop. Though I have two favorite memories from Beasley, one was the 00 coton bowl, the other was he and my dad were both in an elevator at the same time and when my dad steped onto the elevator (beas was on it first) beasley's first word was "damn!" because my dad was so much bigger than he was (height)
and jayhox why are your following my posts?  i wanna know what i made funny