KSUFans Archives
Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: ksu_FAN on February 22, 2006, 10:41:58 AM
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Huggins Grad rates:
05 Report: 98-99 class - 33%, 4-class ave. - 40%
04 Report: 97-98 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 25%
03 Report: Took the "Ferpa won't allow us to report" route.
02 Report: 95-96 class - 100%, 4-class ave. - 17%
01 Report: 94-95 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 8%
00 Report: 93-94 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 8%
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big &@#%ing deal.
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Fatty, it makes a bit of a difference with the new NCAA rules. We can lose scholarships and worse if we don't show progress graduating players.
Plus, I don't think that is a complete knock. It shows the rates were actually improving a bit his last few years.
This is not to say don't hire or hire for sure, just some facts about those rates since they've never been posted.
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The reality is that most of the players who entered Huggins program were significantly better off for having done so. Many -- including 11 of the last 17 seniors who played for him -- left with degrees they might not have dreamed of attaining otherwise. Nearly all left as significantly better players. Some became extremely wealthy competing in the NBA or European leagues.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=11131
Huggins can graduate players if he has to, hence the change late in his tenure at Cincy.
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notice it's the hard-core woolites (nation, zcatmandu, chitowncat, wichitacat) that don't want huggins.
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With the new NCAA rules, it will be harder to have a low graduation rate. The biggest thing is, we need to have kids at least leave KSU in good academic standing. But if they're not going to the NBA (and I want to have a ton of those) then I would like to see them graduate.
As long as Huggins does everything he can to see that-that happens ... I've got no problem with him.
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Huggins Grad rates:
05 Report: 98-99 class - 33%, 4-class ave. - 40%
04 Report: 97-98 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 25%
03 Report: Took the "Ferpa won't allow us to report" route.
02 Report: 95-96 class - 100%, 4-class ave. - 17%
01 Report: 94-95 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 8%
00 Report: 93-94 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 8%
Where did you get this?
I'd like to make some comparisons.
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notice it's the hard-core woolites (nation, zcatmandu, chitowncat, wichitacat) that don't want huggins.
not completely true... i was a hard core woolite until it became obvious that it was mathematically impossible (ok, technically statistically completely improbable) that wooldridge would be retained. and i'm all for huggins.
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http://www.ncaa.org/grad_rates/
Last year's report and archives going back several years.
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KSU will not consider Huggins at all.
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KSU will not consider Huggins at all.
You don't know.
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Huggins Grad rates:
05 Report: 98-99 class - 33%, 4-class ave. - 40%
04 Report: 97-98 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 25%
03 Report: Took the "Ferpa won't allow us to report" route.
02 Report: 95-96 class - 100%, 4-class ave. - 17%
01 Report: 94-95 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 8%
00 Report: 93-94 class - 0%, 4-class ave. - 8%
"Good guy" Eddie Sutton's numbers at OSU:
05: 98-99 class - 100%, 4 class avg. - 25%
04: 97-98 class - 0%, 4 class avg. - 9%
**************************
02: 95-96 class - 100%, 4 class avg - 43%
01: 94-95 class - 0%, 4 class avg - 9%
00: 93-94 class - 33%, 4 class avg - 18%
Please pass this info along.
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graduating players is fool's gold.
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K-State's numbers, FWIW.
Year class, 4-class ave.
98-99 0%, 33%
97-98 0%, 44%
96-97 Ferpa, 50%
95-96 50%, 43%
94-95 33%, 43%
93-94 NA, 60%
Doesn't give the whole picture on Wooly's numbers, just as the other doesn't/won't show Huggins final picture until a couple more years. Granted, some distortion b/c some of his kids left. Stats are stats.
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Granted, some distortion b/c some of his kids left.
There's always distortion. Huggins' are distorted b/c of NBA and other pro players. Majerus' are distorted b/c of Mormons who went on missions and took 6 years to graduate before they went to med school. Yet, according to the NCAA, they didn't graduate.
DeCourcy was the guy on the Border Patrol this morning that brought Huggy up, I think.
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KSU will not consider Huggins at all.
You don't know.
Yes I do. We will not hire a coach with an image problem. You're just fooling yourselves if you think he will be considered.
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Yes I do. We will not hire a coach with an image problem. You're just fooling yourselves if you think he will be considered.
Then Tim Weiser should be fired.
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Yes I do. We will not hire a coach with an image problem. You're just fooling yourselves if you think he will be considered.
Then Tim Weiser should be fired.
Wefald will be the one making the say. You don't want a guy with personal baggage. If you do, you're assuming that you can't win without it, and that's not the case.
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Fine. Then he'd better hire Fox.
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Why Fox? Are you saying you'd only be happy with who you want?
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KSU will not consider Huggins at all.
You don't know.
Yes I do. We will not hire a coach with an image problem. You're just fooling yourselves if you think he will be considered.
No, you don't.
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Why Fox? Are you saying you'd only be happy with who you want?
How many times are you happy with something you don't want?
;)
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"You don't want a guy with personal baggage." - Steve Miller, 1990
Wefald needs to stay the f away from basketball hires, and Weiser needs to step up and hire Huggins.
If image is the most important criterion, we should honestly keep Wooldridge.
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KSU will not consider Huggins at all.
You don't know.
Yes I do. We will not hire a coach with an image problem. You're just fooling yourselves if you think he will be considered.
No, you don't.
Yes, I do.
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"You don't want a guy with personal baggage." - Steve Miller, 1990
Wefald needs to stay the f away from basketball hires, and Weiser needs to step up and hire Huggins.
If image is the most important criterion, we should honestly keep Wooldridge.
Personal Baggage reflects on the University. Why did Cincinnati cut Huggins?
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Why Fox? Are you saying you'd only be happy with who you want?
How many times are you happy with something you don't want?
;)
If wins only matter, then it doesn't matter who's at the helm, so long as they win. If the screw up and make the university look bad, does that mean they get a pass simply because they are winning?
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"You don't want a guy with personal baggage." - Steve Miller, 1990
Wefald needs to stay the f away from basketball hires, and Weiser needs to step up and hire Huggins.
If image is the most important criterion, we should honestly keep Wooldridge.
Personal Baggage reflects on the University. Why did Cincinnati cut Huggins?
Because they're stupid, that's why.
Is Texas Tech regretting the Knight hire?
Even with the way it's ended, does OSU regret hiring Sutton?
I'll trade the multiple Big Monday appearances on ESPN we would get just from Huggins being on our sideline for "baggage reflection".
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"You don't want a guy with personal baggage." - Steve Miller, 1990
Wefald needs to stay the f away from basketball hires, and Weiser needs to step up and hire Huggins.
If image is the most important criterion, we should honestly keep Wooldridge.
Personal Baggage reflects on the University. Why did Cincinnati cut Huggins?
Because they're stupid, that's why.
Is Texas Tech regretting the Knight hire?
Even with the way it's ended, does OSU regret hiring Sutton?
I'll trade the multiple Big Monday appearances on ESPN we would get just from Huggins being on our sideline for "baggage reflection".
Bobby Knight isn't winning the same way he did in Indiana, and more importantly, Knight hasn't been as violent as he had at Indiana, and they certainly tolerated it a lot more than Tech does.
No, but Sutton is retiring anyway, and stopped coaching when he had a relapse. So it's not going to matter.
Huggins won't get a long leash even if he's hired, and there are KSU Alumni out there with some pull who will make it clear, they'll want a clean guy.
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I'll trade the multiple Big Monday appearances on ESPN we would get just from Huggins being on our sideline for "baggage reflection".
Tech is guaranteed Big Monday every year that Bobby stays there. One ku game a year is probably also guaranteed. Probably one more, as well...Texas, OSU, or OU. That's 3 more Big Monday games than we got this year.
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Why Fox? Are you saying you'd only be happy with who you want?
How many times are you happy with something you don't want?
;)
If wins only matter, then it doesn't matter who's at the helm, so long as they win. If the screw up and make the university look bad, does that mean they get a pass simply because they are winning?
You didn't even know who Bob Huggins was two weeks ago.
Fatass.
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"You don't want a guy with personal baggage." - Steve Miller, 1990
Wefald needs to stay the f away from basketball hires, and Weiser needs to step up and hire Huggins.
If image is the most important criterion, we should honestly keep Wooldridge.
Personal Baggage reflects on the University. Why did Cincinnati cut Huggins?
Because they're stupid, that's why.
Is Texas Tech regretting the Knight hire?
Even with the way it's ended, does OSU regret hiring Sutton?
I'll trade the multiple Big Monday appearances on ESPN we would get just from Huggins being on our sideline for "baggage reflection".
Bobby Knight isn't winning the same way he did in Indiana, and more importantly, Knight hasn't been as violent as he had at Indiana, and they certainly tolerated it a lot more than Tech does.
No, but Sutton is retiring anyway, and stopped coaching when he had a relapse. So it's not going to matter.
Huggins won't get a long leash even if he's hired, and there are KSU Alumni out there with some pull who will make it clear, they'll want a clean guy.
Yeah, Knight isn't winning like he used to, but do they regret his hiring, which instantly brought them multiple ESPN appearances, and just created a weekly Texas Tech infomercial on ESPN?
Huggins is no worse than 80% of coaches in the country.
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Why Fox? Are you saying you'd only be happy with who you want?
How many times are you happy with something you don't want?
;)
If wins only matter, then it doesn't matter who's at the helm, so long as they win. If the screw up and make the university look bad, does that mean they get a pass simply because they are winning?
You didn't even know who Bob Huggins was two weeks ago.
Fatass.
So? Can you make a point, or do you just like being a ass?
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"You don't want a guy with personal baggage." - Steve Miller, 1990
Wefald needs to stay the f away from basketball hires, and Weiser needs to step up and hire Huggins.
If image is the most important criterion, we should honestly keep Wooldridge.
Personal Baggage reflects on the University. Why did Cincinnati cut Huggins?
Because they're stupid, that's why.
Is Texas Tech regretting the Knight hire?
Even with the way it's ended, does OSU regret hiring Sutton?
I'll trade the multiple Big Monday appearances on ESPN we would get just from Huggins being on our sideline for "baggage reflection".
Bobby Knight isn't winning the same way he did in Indiana, and more importantly, Knight hasn't been as violent as he had at Indiana, and they certainly tolerated it a lot more than Tech does.
No, but Sutton is retiring anyway, and stopped coaching when he had a relapse. So it's not going to matter.
Huggins won't get a long leash even if he's hired, and there are KSU Alumni out there with some pull who will make it clear, they'll want a clean guy.
Yeah, Knight isn't winning like he used to, but do they regret his hiring, which instantly brought them multiple ESPN appearances, and just created a weekly Texas Tech infomercial on ESPN?
Huggins is no worse than 80% of coaches in the country.
So now it's about appearing on ESPN? I thought you guys wanted to win ball games?
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Yes, it shows how clueless you are.
You didn't know who Bob Huggins was a few weeks ago.
Now you supposedly "know" that we won't even tough Huggins.
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Yes, it shows how clueless you are.
You didn't know who Bob Huggins was a few weeks ago.
Now you supposedly "know" that we won't even tough Huggins.
That's not a valid point. You don't know anyone you hire at a business at all, but you know what that business is looking for and companies do background checks as well.
That's a pretty stupid statement you made. You should go back to class and learn something.
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Rusty, you seem to regard TV appearances pretty heavily. More heavily than what they're actually saying about us around the nation if we have a coach with baggage? I'm not pulling one way or the other here, just playing devil's advocate.
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Some more information here, relates to the original post. I find it somewhat humorous what the majority of these majors are. :)
BEARCAT GRADUATES
Critics have dogged Huggins' graduation rate during his UC tenure. Here are the 27 players who played for Huggins who have earned degrees from UC.
Steve Sanders, BA communication arts, 1990
Anthony Buford, BA economics, 1992
Benjamin Ward, BS criminal justice, 1992
Michael Reicheneker, BS criminal justice, 1992
Andre Tate, BS criminal justice, 1992
Keith Starks, BS criminal justice, 1992
Jeff Scott, BS sociology, 1993
Erik Martin, BS criminal justice, 1993
Keith Gregor, BA health promotions, 1996
Levertis Robinson, BS criminology, 1997
Rodrick Monroe, BS criminal justice, 1997
Terry Nelson, BA liberal arts/social sciences, 1998
Terrence Davis, BS criminal justice, 1998
Jackson Julson, BA communications, 1999
Keith LeGree, BS criminal justice, 1999
Ryan Fletcher, BS criminal justice, 2000
Rodney Crawford, BS criminal justice, 2002
Leonard Stokes, BS liberal arts/social sciences, 2002
Jimmy Hubbard, BS criminal justice, 2002; MA labor and employee relations, 2003
Donald Little, BS liberal arts/social sciences, 2002
Rod Flowers, BS liberal arts/social sciences, 2003
Derek Hollman, BS criminal justice, 2003
Taron Barker, BS criminal justice, 2003
Field Williams, BS criminal justice, 2004
Jason Maxiell, BS psychology, 2005
John Meeker, BA business marketing, 2005
Jamaal Lucas, BA liberal arts/social sciences, 2005
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"You don't want a guy with personal baggage." - Steve Miller, 1990
Wefald needs to stay the f away from basketball hires, and Weiser needs to step up and hire Huggins.
If image is the most important criterion, we should honestly keep Wooldridge.
Personal Baggage reflects on the University. Why did Cincinnati cut Huggins?
Because they're stupid, that's why.
Is Texas Tech regretting the Knight hire?
Even with the way it's ended, does OSU regret hiring Sutton?
I'll trade the multiple Big Monday appearances on ESPN we would get just from Huggins being on our sideline for "baggage reflection".
Bobby Knight isn't winning the same way he did in Indiana, and more importantly, Knight hasn't been as violent as he had at Indiana, and they certainly tolerated it a lot more than Tech does.
No, but Sutton is retiring anyway, and stopped coaching when he had a relapse. So it's not going to matter.
Huggins won't get a long leash even if he's hired, and there are KSU Alumni out there with some pull who will make it clear, they'll want a clean guy.
Yeah, Knight isn't winning like he used to, but do they regret his hiring, which instantly brought them multiple ESPN appearances, and just created a weekly Texas Tech infomercial on ESPN?
Huggins is no worse than 80% of coaches in the country.
So now it's about appearing on ESPN? I thought you guys wanted to win ball games?
Does appearing on ESPN/increasing exposure help recruiting, which in turn helps you win games? Yes.
Love,
Ron Prince
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Rusty, you seem to regard TV appearances pretty heavily. More heavily than what they're actually saying about us around the nation if we have a coach with baggage? I'm not pulling one way or the other here, just playing devil's advocate.
They'll say, "Wow. Those guys are committed to winning at Men's Basketball. What a great hire...very similar to OSU hiring Eddie Sutton in 1990."
Some more information here, relates to the original post. I find it somewhat humorous what the majority of these majors are. :)
BEARCAT GRADUATES
Critics have dogged Huggins' graduation rate during his UC tenure. Here are the 27 players who played for Huggins who have earned degrees from UC.
Steve Sanders, BA communication arts, 1990
Anthony Buford, BA economics, 1992
Benjamin Ward, BS criminal justice, 1992
Michael Reicheneker, BS criminal justice, 1992
Andre Tate, BS criminal justice, 1992
Keith Starks, BS criminal justice, 1992
Jeff Scott, BS sociology, 1993
Erik Martin, BS criminal justice, 1993
Keith Gregor, BA health promotions, 1996
Levertis Robinson, BS criminology, 1997
Rodrick Monroe, BS criminal justice, 1997
Terry Nelson, BA liberal arts/social sciences, 1998
Terrence Davis, BS criminal justice, 1998
Jackson Julson, BA communications, 1999
Keith LeGree, BS criminal justice, 1999
Ryan Fletcher, BS criminal justice, 2000
Rodney Crawford, BS criminal justice, 2002
Leonard Stokes, BS liberal arts/social sciences, 2002
Jimmy Hubbard, BS criminal justice, 2002; MA labor and employee relations, 2003
Donald Little, BS liberal arts/social sciences, 2002
Rod Flowers, BS liberal arts/social sciences, 2003
Derek Hollman, BS criminal justice, 2003
Taron Barker, BS criminal justice, 2003
Field Williams, BS criminal justice, 2004
Jason Maxiell, BS psychology, 2005
John Meeker, BA business marketing, 2005
Jamaal Lucas, BA liberal arts/social sciences, 2005
That is interesting.
Could you do the KSU football team next?
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Yeah, because Bill Snyder REALLY helped the academic perception of KSU. :jerkoff:
But do we give a damn? no.
If you would have asked MU/ku fans if they'd take Bill Snyder during his run, most would say no because he "does things the wrong way"
You all are sounding like that regarding Huggins. Wake up.
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Yeah, because Bill Snyder REALLY helped the academic perception of KSU. :jerkoff:
But do we give a damn? no.
If you would have asked MU/ku fans if they'd take Bill Snyder during his run, most would say no because he "does things the wrong way"
You all are sounding like that regarding Huggins. Wake up.
Just so you know, what you just did is akin to printing a cartoon of the prophet.
Watch out.
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Does appearing on ESPN/increasing exposure help recruiting, which in turn helps you win games? Yes.
Love,
Ron Prince
:rolleyes:
ESPN isn't covering the Spring Game. - Tim Weiser.
I guess we'll just continue to suck in football AND basketball, even though we did pretty well without ESPN in Football, and in basketball before then.
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Rusty, you seem to regard TV appearances pretty heavily. More heavily than what they're actually saying about us around the nation if we have a coach with baggage? I'm not pulling one way or the other here, just playing devil's advocate.
They'll say, "Wow. Those guys are committed to winning at Men's Basketball. What a great hire...very similar to OSU hiring Eddie Sutton in 1990."
A lot of crap teams also appear on ESPN. I don't see them saying the same thing.
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Yeah, because Bill Snyder REALLY helped the academic perception of KSU. :jerkoff:
But do we give a damn? no.
If you would have asked MU/ku fans if they'd take Bill Snyder during his run, most would say no because he "does things the wrong way"
You all are sounding like that regarding Huggins. Wake up.
Yeah, like we need to get approval from ku and MU fans when Snyder was 25-1 against them in the last 13 years.
Good job, retard.
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Yeah, because Bill Snyder REALLY helped the academic perception of KSU. :jerkoff:
But do we give a damn? no.
If you would have asked MU/ku fans if they'd take Bill Snyder during his run, most would say no because he "does things the wrong way"
You all are sounding like that regarding Huggins. Wake up.
Yeah, like we need to get approval from ku and MU fans when Snyder was 25-1 against them in the last 13 years.
Good job, retard.
You missed the point.
From someone who still doesn't know who Bob Huggins is, this doesn't surprise me.
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Rusty, you seem to regard TV appearances pretty heavily. More heavily than what they're actually saying about us around the nation if we have a coach with baggage? I'm not pulling one way or the other here, just playing devil's advocate.
They'll say, "Wow. Those guys are committed to winning at Men's Basketball. What a great hire...very similar to OSU hiring Eddie Sutton in 1990."
A lot of S**T teams also appear on ESPN. I don't see them saying the same thing.
Such as?
Does appearing on ESPN/increasing exposure help recruiting, which in turn helps you win games? Yes.
Love,
Ron Prince
:rolleyes:
ESPN isn't covering the Spring Game. - Tim Weiser.
I guess we'll just continue to suck in football AND basketball, even though we did pretty well without ESPN in Football, and in basketball before then.
Are you saying television exposure doesn't help a team recruit/win? No one is saying television appearances are required for success, but to say they don't help is borderline retarded.
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Yeah, because Bill Snyder REALLY helped the academic perception of KSU. :jerkoff:
But do we give a damn? no.
If you would have asked MU/ku fans if they'd take Bill Snyder during his run, most would say no because he "does things the wrong way"
You all are sounding like that regarding Huggins. Wake up.
Yeah, like we need to get approval from ku and MU fans when Snyder was 25-1 against them in the last 13 years.
Good job, retard.
You missed the point.
From someone who still doesn't know who Bob Huggins is, this doesn't surprise me.
No the point is clear. They didn't like Snyder because he killed them. They'd have taken him in a heartbeat and you know it.
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No, they said "We don't accept that kind of standards at MU/ku"
"His ways wouldn't work here"
It's the same with Huggins.
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No, they said "We don't accept that kind of standards at MU/ku"
"His ways wouldn't work here"
It's the same with Huggins.
What kind of standards did ku/MU have they wouldn't have wanted Snyder for? Refresh my memory.
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Don't know about our football. Got it from the link to the article that's been going around highlighting the arrests/charges of Cinci players. Its way at the bottom. From the Cinci Enquirer I think.
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Rusty, you seem to regard TV appearances pretty heavily. More heavily than what they're actually saying about us around the nation if we have a coach with baggage? I'm not pulling one way or the other here, just playing devil's advocate.
They'll say, "Wow. Those guys are committed to winning at Men's Basketball. What a great hire...very similar to OSU hiring Eddie Sutton in 1990."
A lot of S**T teams also appear on ESPN. I don't see them saying the same thing.
Such as?
Does appearing on ESPN/increasing exposure help recruiting, which in turn helps you win games? Yes.
Love,
Ron Prince
:rolleyes:
ESPN isn't covering the Spring Game. - Tim Weiser.
I guess we'll just continue to suck in football AND basketball, even though we did pretty well without ESPN in Football, and in basketball before then.
Are you saying television exposure doesn't help a team recruit/win? No one is saying television appearances are required for success, but to say they don't help is borderline retarded.
Take a step back for a moment. We hire Bob Huggins at KSU. Does that mean KSU will get on TV immediately? Does that mean people will say "KSU is trying to build a winning program at a school just because we hire Huggins?" You could say that, and the perception would ring true. But in order for Huggins to gain that additional exposure, KSU would have to win. We could win more games, but we might not win LOTS more games, or instead, we'll be in the news about something else. But what does that say about our image as a school if we hire someone of questionable character? Cincy had ALL of that when he was there, and they still let him go because he didn't project the IMAGE that CINCY wanted for an ACADEMIC school. Do you think Wefald wants a guy who's just interested in winning or interested in winning AND make KSU look good?
crap program, like Texas Tech hired Bobby Knight. He's a coaching legend and that's what is putting Tech in the limelight, but he's not exactly marching into the title games anywhere. We still have to win. I'd take Huggins BUT ONLY if Huggins understood the University's committment to academics and image. Knight understood academics, he was just an asshole. Huggins doesn't understand academics and the committment. And a DUI means he's got some judgement issues to deal with. KSU won't look at him.
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What do you think Snyder did for the Academic perception of KSU?
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:popcorn:
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What do you think Snyder did for the Academic perception of KSU?
Go ahead fatty, what is the perception vs. reality?
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K-State FB numbers, FYI.
Year and 4-class ave.
98-99 - 71%, 56%
97-98 - 64%, 61%
96-97 - 65%, 57%
95-96 - 44%, 51%
94-95 - 77%, 47%
93-94 - 47%, 44%
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Take a step back for a moment. We hire Bob Huggins at KSU. Does that mean KSU will get on TV immediately? Does that mean people will say "KSU is trying to build a winning program at a school just because we hire Huggins?"
Yes.
But in order for Huggins to gain that additional exposure, KSU would have to win.
Based on Huggins track record, that would happen in a big way immediately.
But what does that say about our image as a school if we hire someone of questionable character? Cincy had ALL of that when he was there, and they still let him go because he didn't project the IMAGE that CINCY wanted for an ACADEMIC school.
It doesn't matter. Snyder already had us tabbed "Juco U". How could our freaking academic reputation get any worse? Do you honestly think of Cincinnati as a fine Academic Institution now that they're rid of Huggins?
Do you think Wefald wants a guy who's just interested in winning or interested in winning AND make KSU look good?
I don't Wefald invloved with hiring basketball coaches at all.
S**T program, like Texas Tech hired Bobby Knight. He's a coaching legend and that's what is putting Tech in the limelight, but he's not exactly marching into the title games anywhere.
I would LOVE to be in the position Tech is in right now.
Huggins doesn't understand academics and the committment.
HTF do you know that? BTW, 11 of his last 17 seniors graduated.
KSU won't look at him.
Stupid.
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The rules have changed regarding graduation rates. Do you think Huggins is incapable of changing with them?
There once was no penalty for recruiting basketball players as mercenaries. Was this the only reason Huggins was successful at Cincinnati? Or maybe he was a damn successful and intelligent coach, who simply didn't focus on the "student athlete" angle as much as he should have, or (get this) could have! Or maybe it was that academic bastion at the University of Cincinnati that didn't regard its athletes as students, regardless of what Huggins might have supported?
Why do you think that with the new rules in place, and with the educational support that KSU athletics currently has for its students, that Huggins will be incapable of elevating his graduation rates if he came here? Can a tiger change his stripes? After all, Knight stopped physically confronting referees, employees, players and chairs, didn't he? Sutton was off the sauce for a while (enough to make OSU a basketball power).
Is it a non-starter to even consider?
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It's futile to hope Wefald won't have a say in this hiring, or any hiring of a football or basketball coach as long as he's there. To an extent, of course he should have veto power. It's his university. That's like saying the president of a company shouldn't have any say in the hiring of his CEO.
Now before you get all pissy, I agree that Wefald overstepped his bounds last year when he cut Weiser's legs completely from under him.
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Take a step back for a moment. We hire Bob Huggins at KSU. Does that mean KSU will get on TV immediately? Does that mean people will say "KSU is trying to build a winning program at a school just because we hire Huggins?"
Yes.
Prove it.
But in order for Huggins to gain that additional exposure, KSU would have to win.
Based on Huggins track record, that would happen in a big way immediately.
It worked at Cincinnati. It might not work here. Every coach you hire has the same chance to fail as they do to succeed. You cannot guarantee that. Odds favor you, but even those aren't insurmountable.
But what does that say about our image as a school if we hire someone of questionable character? Cincy had ALL of that when he was there, and they still let him go because he didn't project the IMAGE that CINCY wanted for an ACADEMIC school.
It doesn't matter. Snyder already had us tabbed "Juco U". How could our freaking academic reputation get any worse? Do you honestly think of Cincinnati as a fine Academic Institution now that they're rid of Huggins?
I don't have to think Cincinnati is or isn't. The administration, and the people of Ohio have to think that way. They didn't consult anyone else when they fired him. He knew what it was supposed to be, and either didn't accept it, or did something to affect the image. Despite your attempt to minimize it, Universities have images they feel they must protect.
As far as Snyder and JucoU, you accept what other people say about KSU, and I say, who cares? It's not the truth. KSU is a great institution of learning and the academic successes of the university speak for itself. Since I didn't go to KSU on an athletic scholarship, it's important to me and many alumni that the institution itself maintain it's focus on it's academic programs that make successful people. If you think I give a rats ass about what anyone else thinks about KSU being a Juco U, you'd find most people have little room to talk. Ask Nebraska.
Do you think Wefald wants a guy who's just interested in winning or interested in winning AND make KSU look good?
I don't Wefald invloved with hiring basketball coaches at all.
Sorry, that's not how the process works. Wefald does and will have a say.
S**T program, like Texas Tech hired Bobby Knight. He's a coaching legend and that's what is putting Tech in the limelight, but he's not exactly marching into the title games anywhere.
I would LOVE to be in the position Tech is in right now.
Good for you. But it hasn't helped them much, other than to get more exposure, which hasnt' exactly translated into trophies or championships. At least at Indiana, he had that. He got fired because of image. Image doesn't hurt Texas Tech because those bastards already are known as thugs.
Huggins doesn't understand academics and the committment.
HTF do you know that? BTW, 11 of his last 17 seniors graduated.
Because if you look at what the University President said, they were a university that wanted an image that focused on academics. His last 11 of 17 seniors graduated is not his entire record, and the record speaks for itself overall. If he makes the committment to academics, then why didn't he do so at Cincinnati?
KSU won't look at him.
Stupid.
Yes, I would agree with you that Huggins should get an interview. There is no doubt that he could become a coach that would be good for KSU. But it's not all about wins, and you seem to skip over the fact that other coaches might be able to do what he does to win AND are already committed to the academic image of the university.
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The rules have changed regarding graduation rates. Do you think Huggins is incapable of changing with them?
There once was no penalty for recruiting basketball players as mercenaries. Was this the only reason Huggins was successful at Cincinnati? Or maybe he was a damn successful and intelligent coach, who simply didn't focus on the "student athlete" angle as much as he should have, or (get this) could have! Or maybe it was that academic bastion at the University of Cincinnati that didn't regard its athletes as students, regardless of what Huggins might have supported?
Why do you think that with the new rules in place, and with the educational support that KSU athletics currently has for its students, that Huggins will be incapable of elevating his graduation rates if he came here? Can a tiger change his stripes? After all, Knight stopped physically confronting referees, employees, players and chairs, didn't he? Sutton was off the sauce for a while (enough to make OSU a basketball power).
Is it a non-starter to even consider?
I've never said that Huggins couldn't change with the system. But he had a chance at Cincy to prove it in all his years, and he didn't That makes him behind the power curve. Weiser will not consider him because of that and other personal issues. He also has to be a good fit to get here. It's not like he stands in a line of unemployed coaches and the first school to call gets the first one in line. The school and the coach have to believe it's a good fit. Otherwise, he won't get hired.
There are plenty of other coaches who could do quite well here in all areas to make KSU respected in basketball and in academics.
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KSU hoops is dead and will be for a long time.
KSU either needs to think way outside of the box, or just shut the program down.
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KSU hoops is dead and will be for a long time.
KSU either needs to think way outside of the box, or just shut the program down.
Actually, I think what we need is another slightly-better-than-mediocre-mid-major coach to turn this thing around. The fourth times the charm!!!
Also, Dax, didn't you mention Jeff Bzdelik in your first coaching "wish list?" He has an interesting resume and should get an interview, IMO.
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KSU hoops is dead and will be for a long time.
KSU either needs to think way outside of the box, or just shut the program down.
Actually, I think what we need is another slightly-better-than-mediocre-mid-major coach to turn this thing around. The fourth times the charm!!!
Also, Dax, didn't you mention Jeff Bzdelik in your first coaching "wish list?" He has an interesting resume and should get an interview, IMO.
Taking cues from ku fans now, Rusty?
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KSU hoops is dead and will be for a long time.
KSU either needs to think way outside of the box, or just shut the program down.
Actually, I think what we need is another slightly-better-than-mediocre-mid-major coach to turn this thing around. The fourth times the charm!!!
Also, Dax, didn't you mention Jeff Bzdelik in your first coaching "wish list?" He has an interesting resume and should get an interview, IMO.
Taking cues from ku fans now, Rusty?
Yep. I told him it was a good idea. Not nearly as good as Huggins, but a good idea nonetheless. Dax thought of him first, though, IIRC.
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I'm not familiar with that guy. Care for a brief explanation, or do I have to look him up myself?
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I'm not familiar with that guy. Care for a brief explanation, or do I have to look him up myself?
He's the current head coach of Air Force, and former head coach of the Nuggets from 2002-2005.
Record as a head coach in the NBA
Reg Season Playoffs
Year Tm Lg W L WPct W L WPct
+--------------+-----+----+-----+----+---+-----+
2003 DEN NBA 17 65 .207
2004 DEN NBA 43 39 .524 1 4 .200
2005 DEN NBA 13 15 .464
+--------------+-----+----+-----+----+---+-----+
3 Seasons 73 119 .380 1 4 .200
+--------------+-----+----+-----+----+---+-----+
Current record at Air Force 22-5 (10-4), 2nd Mountain West.
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That was a clutch first "shot," john, thanks.
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getting on TV is one of the few things in this world that isn't fool's gold.
i can't tell you how much i have wanted to slap asbury (and altman and wooldridge even though they have only thought it, never said it) when he/they say "you can't recruit to manhattan". absolute bullcrap. the accurate way to phrase that is "you can't recruit to a team that doesn't play anyone of note in the non-con and damn near never plays on national TV" stop the podunk schedules and play anyone, anytime, anywhere as long as it gets televised to a large part of the country and just watch how many recruits are all of a sudden interested in playing for KSU.
i can't tell you what kind of a schedule huggins would play, but he sure as hell would ensure more exposure for the program even without significantly improving the schedule.
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Prove it.
Bobby Knight.
It worked at Cincinnati. It might not work here. Every coach you hire has the same chance to fail as they do to succeed. You cannot guarantee that. Odds favor you, but even those aren't insurmountable.
No, coaches that have won over 70% of their games at the highest level, had 20 twenty-win seasons out of 24, been to a final four, and won at three different schools is much much much more likely to be successful than a young guy with two years of head coaching experience at Southern Illinois.
I don't have to think Cincinnati is or isn't. The administration, and the people of Ohio have to think that way. They didn't consult anyone else when they fired him. He knew what it was supposed to be, and either didn't accept it, or did something to affect the image. Despite your attempt to minimize it, Universities have images they feel they must protect.
As far as Snyder and JucoU, you accept what other people say about KSU, and I say, who cares? It's not the truth. KSU is a great institution of learning and the academic successes of the university speak for itself. Since I didn't go to KSU on an athletic scholarship, it's important to me and many alumni that the institution itself maintain it's focus on it's academic programs that make successful people. If you think I give a rats ass about what anyone else thinks about KSU being a Juco U, you'd find most people have little room to talk. Ask Nebraska.
I DON'T give a rat's ass about what people think about KSU being "Juco U", which is exactly why I don't care about how Huggins could affect our academic reputation.
BTW, what do you think of Texas' academic reputation?
Sorry, that's not how the process works. Wefald does and will have a say.
I know that's how it works...that doesn't make him qualified to hire basketball coaches.
Good for you. But it hasn't helped them much, other than to get more exposure, which hasnt' exactly translated into trophies or championships. At least at Indiana, he had that. He got fired because of image. Image doesn't hurt Texas Tech because those bastards already are known as thugs.
More exposure helps Texas Tech as a University, not just as a basketball team. Even Wefald recognizes that successful athletic programs help universities. Also, Knight will leave the basketball program in MUCH better shape than he found it, even if they don't have "trophies".
Yes, I would agree with you that Huggins should get an interview. There is no doubt that he could become a coach that would be good for KSU. But it's not all about wins, and you seem to skip over the fact that other coaches might be able to do what he does to win AND are already committed to the academic image of the university.
Like who?
I would rather take a chance image-wise on a guy like Huggins than go through the same crap of taking a chance winning-wise with another no-name mediocre mid-major coach that just happens to be a nice guy.
I'd rather keep Wooldridge if we're going to keep hiring "nice" guys and hope they work out.
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getting on TV is one of the few things in this world that isn't fool's gold.
i can't tell you how much i have wanted to slap asbury (and altman and wooldridge even though they have only thought it, never said it) when he/they say "you can't recruit to manhattan". absolute bullS**T. the accurate way to phrase that is "you can't recruit to a team that doesn't play anyone of note in the non-con and damn near never plays on national TV" stop the podunk schedules and play anyone, anytime, anywhere as long as it gets televised to a large part of the country and just watch how many recruits are all of a sudden interested in playing for KSU.
i can't tell you what kind of a schedule huggins would play, but he sure as hell would ensure more exposure for the program even without significantly improving the schedule.
I know he's usually played a top-25 caliber team midway through his conference schedule that was on ABC - Wake and Oklahoma State were the most recent. Cincy had a built in rivalry with Xavier, and since 99-00 he played home-homes with schools like Minnesota, Oklahoma, Vandy, Purdue, LSU, Oregon (top 5 at the time), Clemson, had neutral site games with UNC, Gonzaga, and Notre Dame and they played Memphis as an OOC game this season. The strength of CUSA might have had something to do with scheduling quite a few big names, but I'm sure he would try to schedule at least one OOC game a year that would be on ESPN or ABC.