KSUFans Archives

Sports => Snyder's Electronic Cyber Space World => Topic started by: Dan Rydell on September 25, 2006, 12:19:00 PM

Title: This is retarded.
Post by: Dan Rydell on September 25, 2006, 12:19:00 PM
http://mb17.scout.com/fkansasstatefrm3.showMessage?topicID=17509.topic

I guess now we're blaming the customer if they won't buy the product.

There are several good solutions to this "problem," and none of them involve shaming people into buying overpriced tickets.  It's a pretty straightforward economic analysis.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 12:21:57 PM
Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

If floors me that people that spend as much time as they do on this board, wouldn't go to the actual games.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: Saulbadguy on September 25, 2006, 12:28:16 PM
Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

If floors me that people that spend as much time as they do on this board, wouldn't go to the actual games.
$$$
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 12:32:05 PM
Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: Dan Rydell on September 25, 2006, 01:10:43 PM
People don't want to see good football.  They want to see good football that the Cats win, or have a decent chance of winning.  That's why they wanted to see top ten OOC back when we were good.  The Louisville game, for all intents and purposes, was meaningless.  It could be argued that it was more meaningless than Marshall or even FAU, as those games carried more meaning because they were realistically winnable and directly impact our bowl chances.  Baylor and OSU carry more meaning because they're conference games and affect our conference standings.

The Louisville game didn't impact our conference standings.  Louisville, while currently a national power, doesn't have the name that a Miami or USC has to sell tickets.  The only people who thought we had a realistic chance of winning are already perennial season ticket holders and Lee Corso.  Thus, the only interest in the game was to see how far short we are of being a national player again, which doesn't carry much interest for the type of KSU fan who would be buying those tickets.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: ScubaSteve on September 25, 2006, 01:18:24 PM
People don't want to see good football.  They want to see good football that the Cats win, or have a decent chance of winning.  That's why they wanted to see top ten OOC back when we were good.  The Louisville game, for all intents and purposes, was meaningless.  It could be argued that it was more meaningless than Marshall or even FAU, as those games carried more meaning because they were realistically winnable and directly impact our bowl chances.  Baylor and OSU carry more meaning because they're conference games and affect our conference standings.

The Louisville game didn't impact our conference standings.  Louisville, while currently a national power, doesn't have the name that a Miami or USC has to sell tickets.  The only people who thought we had a realistic chance of winning are already perennial season ticket holders and Lee Corso.  Thus, the only interest in the game was to see how far short we are of being a national player again, which doesn't carry much interest for the type of KSU fan who would be buying those tickets.

Hate to break this to you slimy, but we're not going to be a national title contender every year, but if you want to try to contend every now and then, the school needs money.  They derive money from selling tickets, television, and donations.  If you want the school to succeed, you need to buy a fu$&^%g ticket or donate some money.  At least if you buy a ticket, you get to see the game.  We have lame-ass fans...plain and simple.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 01:24:11 PM
I still say that certain nose bleed seats and north endzone single game tickets need to be cheaper.   The problem is that at $55 a pop only upper level endzone seats available they're not going to move for an 11 am start.   They should be priced at $35 or $40 max.

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: Dan Rydell on September 25, 2006, 01:31:38 PM
People don't want to see good football.  They want to see good football that the Cats win, or have a decent chance of winning.  That's why they wanted to see top ten OOC back when we were good.  The Louisville game, for all intents and purposes, was meaningless.  It could be argued that it was more meaningless than Marshall or even FAU, as those games carried more meaning because they were realistically winnable and directly impact our bowl chances.  Baylor and OSU carry more meaning because they're conference games and affect our conference standings.

The Louisville game didn't impact our conference standings.  Louisville, while currently a national power, doesn't have the name that a Miami or USC has to sell tickets.  The only people who thought we had a realistic chance of winning are already perennial season ticket holders and Lee Corso.  Thus, the only interest in the game was to see how far short we are of being a national player again, which doesn't carry much interest for the type of KSU fan who would be buying those tickets.

Hate to break this to you slimy, but we're not going to be a national title contender every year, but if you want to try to contend every now and then, the school needs money.  They derive money from selling tickets, television, and donations.  If you want the school to succeed, you need to buy a fu$&^%g ticket or donate some money.  At least if you buy a ticket, you get to see the game.  We have lame-ass fans...plain and simple.

It's the school's job to understand some basic economics and price accordingly to maximize profit.  They may be doing so, as a matter of fact.  The byproduct may just be some empty seats that show up on TV.  I happen to believe that there's some market surplus there that's not being captured by the current pricing structure, but I don't have access to the athletic department's figures, so I may be wrong.

Calling our fans "lame-ass" is ignorant and shows an inability to comprehend simple economics and reality.  There are thousands of KSU fans who have the ability to regard KSU as a charity and therefore donate to the athletic department or pay artificially-high prices for tickets.  However, there are others who don't.  Generalizing to an entire fanbase or calling out some imaginary set of straw-men fans who didn't attend the Louisville game is ignorant and tactless.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 01:33:11 PM
Calling out some imaginary set of straw-men fans who didn't attend the Louisville game is ignorant and tactless.

Dare I say..."Lame-ass"???
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 01:39:56 PM
Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.

Really? Was USC (top 10 team) a sell-out?
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 01:46:30 PM
Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.

Really? Was USC (top 10 team) a sell-out?

People said that back when we were good.  Didn't exactly follow through.  That said, has any OOC game come anywhere close to matching that attendance since?
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 01:51:23 PM
46,000 for a top 8 team is pathetic. We were 3-0 not 0-3.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 02:38:17 PM
46,000 for a top 8 team is pathetic. We were 3-0 not 0-3.

I guess I just don't care that much.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: Saulbadguy on September 25, 2006, 02:43:30 PM
46,000 for a top 8 team is pathetic. We were 3-0 not 0-3.

I guess I just don't care that much.
Me neither.

It bothered me when only a few thousand people were at the basketball games though, because it was dead quiet. 
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 02:45:43 PM
You should, all the big-time programs have at least 60K + consistently.

It shouldn't bother you when people don't show up for basketball games, with the coaches we had there was no reason to show up.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: catzacker on September 25, 2006, 02:46:37 PM
The attendance is embarassing, but par for the course.  We're not any different than any other fan base, and quite honestly probably worse.  We've had more reasons to sell out consistently (excluding '04 and '05) than any other team in the North and yet we haven't.  Since the expansion, how many games has KSU sold out against an opponent not named Nebraska?

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 02:49:53 PM
You should, all the big-time programs have at least 60K + consistently.

I don't care as long as we win, (which will eventually bring more fans).  Scuba made the argument that more fans bring more wins...it's kind of a chicken vs. the egg question.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 02:53:22 PM
Yes, and winning is aided by bringing more fans..increasing budget...etc..

It's a bad thing. Period.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 02:56:50 PM
Yes, and winning is aided by bringing more fans..increasing budget...etc..

It's a bad thing. Period.

Well, if you're just worried about revenue...46k paying $55 for a non-con game is pretty damn good...only NU, UT, OU, and aTm will do better than that.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 03:09:10 PM
You know I'm not just worried about revenue.  We have a 50K stadium...there is no reason for 5K open seats when a top 10 team comes to town.

With our incredible success the past 15 years, we should be able to easily sell more than MU, ku, ISU, OSU, BU and TT.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 03:11:09 PM
Folks, I could buy single game tickets to Florida State-Boston College for $38 bucks.

I could buy a 4 pack to MU-CU for $80 bucks, or single game tickets for $45.

MU vs ku single game tickets are $45.

Two Arkansas SEC conference home games are $35 a pop for tickets.

KSU charges $55 a pop for nose bleed seats.  

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 03:14:06 PM
There no nose-bleed seats at KSU Stadium.

Our stadium seats 50 K, most SEC stadiums seat 70K



Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 03:18:16 PM
You know I'm not just worried about revenue.  We have a 50K stadium...there is no reason for 5K open seats.

With our incredible success the past 15 years, we should be able to easily sell more than MU, ku, ISU, OSU, BU and TT.
We do, with the exception of Tech and MU.  Our revenues/game are much hire than MU's and pretty close to TTech...Weiser is all about the benjamins.


Dax is right.  You can get Ole Miss/UGA tix for $40, etc.  All of Tech's conference games against not-UT have thousands of $35 tickets.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 03:24:50 PM
We've had more success than Tech. By far.

Uga/Ole Miss have huge stadium with some real crapty seats. All our seats have great views.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 25, 2006, 03:28:04 PM
Ole Miss only seats like 60k.  And the way their stadium is arranged makes KSU's upper deck corners much worse than any seat in their stadium.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: catzacker on September 25, 2006, 03:29:55 PM
Fun Stats:

Below shows the year - approximate average home attendance per year -  number of games that had an attendance over 50K (and the teams):

99-  51K  - 6 (ku, CU, MU, Utah St. Utep, Temple)
00- 50K - 4 (NU, OU, TT, ISU)
01- 48K - 2 (CU, ku)
02- 48K - 2 (NU, UT)
03- 47K - 2 (ku, CU)
04- 48K - 2 (OU, NU)
05- 45K - 0



Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 03:30:40 PM
Sure "great" view, and an 8 story walk back down to take your kid to the bathroom and another 8 stories back up.  

Fatty subscribes to the "rather have empty" seats then lower the price on a couple of sections of the stadium viewpoint.

Plus I'd bet the upper level seats at Arkansas's stadium are no higher up then at KSU's, they just  have a deck that wraps around the entire stadium and not one side.

The $38 seats at Florida State start in the endzone right down by the field.

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 25, 2006, 03:31:59 PM
Has Ole Miss gone 118-42 in the last 13 years?

Nope..82-69.

that..is...a...huge..difference.

WE've won..won big. And we stll can't bring 50K.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: MrWhite on September 25, 2006, 03:37:50 PM
average ticket cost for public bench seat is $37.50.

If you're a young alum, it's $22.25.

catzacker tells the story.  when the team is kicking arse, all these supposed issues about cost, sight lines and potty time outs are non-factors.

the reality is there just aren't 45K ksu fans. 
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 03:49:32 PM
Which gets me back to something I've been saying for nearly 10 years now.

KSU will have problems with attendance if KSU isn't going 11-1 every year.

Because people aren't going to buy some of the most expensive season tickets, and some of the most expensive single game tickets in the Big 12 to be herded off and treated like 2nd and 3rd class citizens. 

If you've followed it like I have, you'd know that the schools that are always sold out have invested millions in making sure that every fan in attendance has access to proper amenitites.   

Many folks who are KSU fans are willing to look the other way on this stuff for really good teams ... they aren't going to do it for mediocre or bad teams. 

People have figured KSU out ... and they aren't going to allow themselves to get treated like dirt up in section 420-Row 20 and pay $55-$60-$65-$70 a pop to go watch a 5-6, 7-4 or whatever team. 

This isn't that hard guys.    KSU had ample opportunity to address this, and Max Urick and Tim Weiser have opted to do everything on the cheap.


Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: MrWhite on September 25, 2006, 03:57:53 PM
for people like dax, the pisser is the deal breaker.

some people really do go to football games just for the quality of the crap break.

it's true.

dax -- what's your take on the kotex selection?  i've not ever heard that feedback before, but you would be the one to have it.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 04:06:55 PM
I think the selection is ample.

However ... it's a shame they don't have an IQ machine at the gates to help out the "I'll always be a dumbass" bunch; of which Mr. White appears to be a lead member of ... along with many of the Powertards.

Simple Marketing and Event Planning 101 ... and KSU sucks at it.

KSU should never market, or attempt to lure people into empty seats ... KSU should only rely on the win-loss record to do that ... also, KSU should make sure that only the people on the lower levels are treated well, and then treat everyone else like $hit ... that's a real marketing tool there.

KSU should never try to lure families as well:

"So let me get this straight ... I can go to the Louisville game, take my 2 kids and the wife, plunk down $210 for tickets, get herded up the 3rd level where there's no bathrooms or full service concessions, also pay $10's to park to watch a team that's combined for a 9-13 record the last two years??"  Sounds like a great deal!! (or I can stay at home and watch it for free).

 :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:



Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: catzacker on September 25, 2006, 04:14:34 PM
catzacker tells the story.  when the team is kicking arse, all these supposed issues about cost, sight lines and potty time outs are non-factors.

the reality is there just aren't 45K ksu fans. 


Actually, if you look at it we should have averaged more during the 2002 and 2003 years if it was true that "kicking arse" was the sole reason for people showing up.  You would think that after good years (99, 00, 02, 03) you would see an increase because we were winning and going to major bowls and general interest would have been high....but you don't necessarily see any impact ont he attendance. 

I've had many people who have said the same thing: I"m not going to pay that much to go watch that game from where I'll have to watch it when I can watch it on TV.  I don't blame people for making those kinds of decisions, nor do I question their "loyalty".  Tiered pricing doesn't devalue the product, nor does providing adequate amenities. 

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: MrWhite on September 25, 2006, 04:20:07 PM
dax - does football revenue continue to climb?

catzacker - contrary to popular belief, no ksu team kicked as much arse as the '98 squad.  that's why you see the response you do following the 2002 and 2003 school years.  also, you forgot about the much-less-than-arse-kicking 2001 campaign.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 04:22:00 PM
I don't know, I haven't seen the latest numbers and won't see them until the middle of next month when KSU has to have their EADA report in.

Plus ... all of KSU's football revenues are not tied to ticket sales.

Always happy to help you learn Mr. White.

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: MrWhite on September 25, 2006, 04:32:29 PM
so dax,  what have they looked like the past couple of years?

i know an obsessed &@#%up like yourself has them memorized.

here's how i know you're full of crap.

the cheapest non-student season ticket at ku is $21.43 per game for recent grads.  otherwise it's $32.14. 

that's incredibly comparable to ksu prices, and ksu stadium is quite a bit nicer than the craphole in lawrence, and ksu's home schedule this year is leaps and bounds better.

you're a small mind, going off on senseless rants about a couple of bucks here and there.  that might work at quickie mart, but i'm not surprised in the least weiser tossed your ass to the curb like a sack of soiled diapers.

you're &@#%ing stupid and annoying.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: catzacker on September 25, 2006, 04:36:30 PM
catzacker - contrary to popular belief, no ksu team kicked as much arse as the '98 squad.  that's why you see the response you do following the 2002 and 2003 school years.  also, you forgot about the much-less-than-arse-kicking 2001 campaign.

We were consistently winning 11 games (w/ the exception of 01) from 1998-2003...how is that not ass kicking?  While I agree that attendance is tied to performance, there are ways to mitigiate lagging attendance in the "down seasons" and ways to increase attendance, even marginally, during the good years.  You'd have thought that the success that we had during the 1998-03 would have brought about sell out after sell out.  We were one of a handful programs in the country to have the kind of succes we had over the time period we had, yet our attendance wouldn't bear that out.  
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: MrWhite on September 25, 2006, 04:40:14 PM
it was ass kicking, just not as much as 98.  that's why attendance stayed close to 50K.

like i said, the reality is that there just aren't 45,000 cat fans.  there's 35-40K fans, and the rest are frontrunners.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: ds43fan on September 25, 2006, 09:07:07 PM
You should, all the big-time programs have at least 60K + consistently.

It shouldn't bother you when people don't show up for basketball games, with the coaches we had there was no reason to show up.
our stadium only seats 50 k
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: mjrod on September 25, 2006, 09:10:46 PM
You guys seem to forget something about Louisville and USC.

USC is a historical program, and has a lot of history behind it.  Anyone ever think of seeing USC in Manhattan was a thrill.

Louisville may be a Top 10 team, but they don't have the same appeal.  And that, with what people perceive our team as not capable of winning it has a lot to do with it. 

If it had been Miami or UCLA, it might be different.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 11:02:27 PM
White ... you're a total dumbass and just don't know it yet.

But hey ... what's 20,000 unsold tickets for the 1st 4 games anyway?? 

You're placing you're entire argument on the average cost based on season ticket prices.   Well dumbass, those empty seats clearly weren't season ticket holders were they??  ... and last I checked all those empty seats for the Lousiville game cost $55 a pop.   But you do have one good point ... the price for single game tickets for game like Lousiville should be more in line with the average price per game for general public season ticket holders, and north endzone seats should be less then that.    The average price per game for general public (main stadium) season ticket holders at KSU (without donation) is right at $40 per game.   So Why the F ... is a game like Lousiville priced at $55 for an individual game ticket???  It was $55 just to sit in the GD North Endzone.   Nobody ... and I mean nobody is going to bitch or moan if the main stadium individual game tickets for a game like Louisville are $40 each and the North Endzone are $30.   But KSU would rather have empty seats then lower the prices.   Nobody would complain one bit if there was a family pack for the Louisville game for Section 420 and the other end of the upper deck as well.

But KSU would rather have empty seats.   

Again, it's marketing a football program that has gone 9-13 the last two years ... not 22-1.









Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: kougar24 on September 25, 2006, 11:15:54 PM
Sure "great" view, and an 8 story walk back down to take your kid to the bathroom and another 8 stories back up. 

What are you, 90? Clean the sand out of your vag.

Fatty is 100% correct here, though so is slimz with the economics argument.

However: winning cures all.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: GoldbrickGangBoss on September 25, 2006, 11:20:12 PM
Mr. White, what are your thoughts on Weiser?
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 25, 2006, 11:55:12 PM
Sure "great" view, and an 8 story walk back down to take your kid to the bathroom and another 8 stories back up. 

What are you, 90? Clean the sand out of your vag.

Fatty is 100% correct here, though so is slimz with the economics argument.

However: winning cures all.

No ... I just understand marketing and understand you can't sell a product during down times when you're charging premium prices and providing sub-premium products and service.

Someday maybe some on here with PowerTard syndrome will understand the real world. 




Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: mjrod on September 26, 2006, 12:03:57 AM
Sure "great" view, and an 8 story walk back down to take your kid to the bathroom and another 8 stories back up. 

What are you, 90? Clean the sand out of your vag.

Fatty is 100% correct here, though so is slimz with the economics argument.

However: winning cures all.

No ... I just understand marketing and understand you can't sell a product during down times when you're charging premium prices and providing sub-premium products and service.

Someday maybe some on here with PowerTard syndrome will understand the real world. 


That's actually very true.   But I don't think that's why they aren't selling the seats.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: kougar24 on September 26, 2006, 12:17:48 AM
Quote
I just understand marketing and understand you can't sell a product during down times when you're charging premium prices and providing sub-premium products and service.

No argument there. I'm just glad I'm still a student for one more year and get to reap the benefits of a U that treats its students extremely well when it comes to athletic tickets.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 26, 2006, 12:19:27 AM
Sure "great" view, and an 8 story walk back down to take your kid to the bathroom and another 8 stories back up. 

What are you, 90? Clean the sand out of your vag.

Fatty is 100% correct here, though so is slimz with the economics argument.

However: winning cures all.

No ... I just understand marketing and understand you can't sell a product during down times when you're charging premium prices and providing sub-premium products and service.

Someday maybe some on here with PowerTard syndrome will understand the real world. 



We couldn't sell out a 50K stadium when we were in the midst of a 73-18 run.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 12:21:51 AM
That's not the only reason ... but you'll never convince me that that fan "treatment" doesn't creep into the minds of many folks when you also have the team performance variable that's very visible as well.

When the main product is awesome, that fringe fan they need to fill those 5,000 empty seats is going to look the other way on a bunch of stuff.

Oh and Fatty ... we had over 50K for Temple.   

Max Urick had every opportunity to provide proper fan amenities when they expanded the stadium and he sucked so bad and was so short sighted, he cut a ton of stuff out ... stuff that at this juncture would be nearly paid for.


Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: fatty fat fat on September 26, 2006, 12:23:21 AM
So? Fact remains we rarely sold out a 50K stadium in the middle of a run that KSU football will probaly NEVER experience again.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: waks on September 26, 2006, 12:35:44 AM
a run that KSU football will probaly NEVER experience again.
&@#% you Fatty  :crybaby: :crybaby:
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 12:38:01 AM
And the fact remains that KSU's AD has taken for granted that people will buy tickets just because ... it was that way then, and that way now.   They seem to be happy with about 38K season ticket holders and about 45-46,000 a game.  They'll put together a handful of lame radio spots, and send out a cheap glossy brochure but that's about it.

I wonder how many people who bought the family packs when they had them, eventually upgraded to regular season tickets.

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: mjrod on September 26, 2006, 12:40:26 AM
That's not the only reason ... but you'll never convince me that that fan "treatment" doesn't creep into the minds of many folks when you also have the team performance variable that's very visible as well.

When the main product is awesome, that fringe fan they need to fill those 5,000 empty seats is going to look the other way on a bunch of stuff.

Oh and Fatty ... we had over 50K for Temple.   

Max Urick had every opportunity to provide proper fan amenities when they expanded the stadium and he sucked so bad and was so short sighted, he cut a ton of stuff out ... stuff that at this juncture would be nearly paid for.


Well, blaming it on poor design of the expansion is not the reason KSU fans don't go to games either.   Sure, we can sell out the big games, but lowering the ticket price isn't going to bring them in either.   You've got to get people to WANT to go to the games because they like going and to do that means, they have to prioritize their lifestyle to going to games on Saturday.   Unless more people do that, you can spend all the money you want making a great facility, but you also have to have a fan base that wants to support it and will do so at the expense of everything else. 

We're not objective people here to tell us that "yeah, all you need is this.." in regards to facilities. I mean, I'm here in Arizona.  It's not practical for me to fly back EVERY home game not because I can't afford it, it's because I have other obligations.   I know of people in Manhattan who just don't want to go to the game.  And no amount of major investment of money into the stadium is going to make them come, because, once you do put the money into it, you still have to maintain it, you still have to market it, you still have to provide the product. it's a never ending cycle.   And at what point do you say, the priority is only in facilities and nothing else?   There has to be a balance and that balance isn't going to be decided by people who want to put all the money in facilities and hope that it's enough to buy a championship.  So much more is involved in getting people to go to games.

I know this, if I was in Manhattan, I would go.  I could prioritize my life (assuming I am making the same kind of money there) to do so.  That's just me.  That's not like my dad's neighbor in Manhattan who is a KSU grad but could give a crap about football.



Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 12:44:27 AM
The point is .... we don't know for sure.   But again, plenty of people are well aware of the upper deck treatment at KSU Stadium ... and when you look at what KSU charges, and what they are currently providing ... it's going to mean IMO plenty of people aren't going to pull the trigger.


Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: mjrod on September 26, 2006, 12:46:21 AM
Maybe.   I'm sure there are 5,000 fence sitters out there either waiting for better facilities or cheaper prices.

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 07:11:50 AM
Didn't say that.

 :ksu:
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: WILDCAT NATION on September 26, 2006, 07:36:42 AM
Since it's been a problem selling section 420 and 429 for some time now...I cannot understand why they don't open it up to family plan seating...

They REALLY need to put some damned restrooms up there...that's ridiculous.

Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: pissclams on September 26, 2006, 09:05:31 AM
I'm working on introducing a "Willie The Wildcatheter" into the Fall 2007 KATPAK collection.

Stay tuned for details.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 26, 2006, 09:09:32 AM
Maybe.   I'm sure there are 5,000 fence sitters out there either waiting for better facilities or cheaper prices.



Is this a good reason to do things sub-half-assed when it comes to facilities?  There has to be a point where you're better off doing nothing at all instead of building crap.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 09:28:42 AM
 :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:   :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: GoldbrickGangBoss on September 26, 2006, 10:17:21 AM
Why did this topic make it to two pages?

 :confused:
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: mjrod on September 26, 2006, 10:57:56 AM
Maybe.   I'm sure there are 5,000 fence sitters out there either waiting for better facilities or cheaper prices.



Is this a good reason to do things sub-half-assed when it comes to facilities?  There has to be a point where you're better off doing nothing at all instead of building crap.

I don't know. Go to the AD's office and ask that question.  Let me know what happens.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: michigancat on September 26, 2006, 11:01:32 AM
Maybe.   I'm sure there are 5,000 fence sitters out there either waiting for better facilities or cheaper prices.



Is this a good reason to do things sub-half-assed when it comes to facilities?  There has to be a point where you're better off doing nothing at all instead of building crap.

I don't know. Go to the AD's office and ask that question.  Let me know what happens.


No, thanks.  I prefer to be associated with Kansas State athletics.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 11:09:54 AM


 :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: Skycat on September 26, 2006, 11:18:46 AM
I haven't read the whole thread, because I don't care that much, but after following K-State sports teams my whole life, it seems pretty simple.

Our fan base will show up for almost any squad on campus, as long as it wins.

Our fan base will stay home if they think there's a decent chance we're going to lose.

Now, this is better than some places.  I mean, UT can have a top 10 basketball team, but if they aren't playing aTm, OU or ku the Erwin Center is an embarrasment.  I was at TJ Ford's last home game, and that place was a ghost town.  Granted it wasn't official that it was going to be his last home game, but still. 

On the other hand it seems like some SEC schools would sell out every home football game even if they were coming off back to back winless seasons.  Good for them.

It is what it is.  I'm not going to get too worked up about it.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 01:10:54 PM
 :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:  :ksu:
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: Kat Kid on September 26, 2006, 01:24:27 PM
People don't want to see good football.  They want to see good football that the Cats win, or have a decent chance of winning.  That's why they wanted to see top ten OOC back when we were good.  The Louisville game, for all intents and purposes, was meaningless.  It could be argued that it was more meaningless than Marshall or even FAU, as those games carried more meaning because they were realistically winnable and directly impact our bowl chances.  Baylor and OSU carry more meaning because they're conference games and affect our conference standings.

The Louisville game didn't impact our conference standings.  Louisville, while currently a national power, doesn't have the name that a Miami or USC has to sell tickets.  The only people who thought we had a realistic chance of winning are already perennial season ticket holders and Lee Corso.  Thus, the only interest in the game was to see how far short we are of being a national player again, which doesn't carry much interest for the type of KSU fan who would be buying those tickets.

Hate to break this to you slimy, but we're not going to be a national title contender every year, but if you want to try to contend every now and then, the school needs money.  They derive money from selling tickets, television, and donations.  If you want the school to succeed, you need to buy a fu$&^%g ticket or donate some money.  At least if you buy a ticket, you get to see the game.  We have lame-ass fans...plain and simple.

It's the school's job to understand some basic economics and price accordingly to maximize profit.  They may be doing so, as a matter of fact.  The byproduct may just be some empty seats that show up on TV.  I happen to believe that there's some market surplus there that's not being captured by the current pricing structure, but I don't have access to the athletic department's figures, so I may be wrong.

Calling our fans "lame-ass" is ignorant and shows an inability to comprehend simple economics and reality.  There are thousands of KSU fans who have the ability to regard KSU as a charity and therefore donate to the athletic department or pay artificially-high prices for tickets.  However, there are others who don't.  Generalizing to an entire fanbase or calling out some imaginary set of straw-men fans who didn't attend the Louisville game is ignorant and tactless.

top-notch analysis.

He maximized his utility here bitches!
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: MrWhite on September 26, 2006, 01:38:15 PM
the most idiotic comment in the history of the internet:

the price for single game tickets for game like Lousiville should be more in line with the average price per game for general public season ticket holders, and north endzone seats should be less then that.   

that's why you got teabagged by the AD.

you're &@#%ing stupid.

i refuse to believe you are a graduate from an institution as fine as ksu.  and i certainly don't think you should be trusted around little children.

especially boys.
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 01:55:31 PM
You employ the stupidest logic in the history of the world.

Next up ... Mr. White explains how you can make more money by having 20,000 unsold tickets over the course of 4 games.

Mr. Whitelogic ... almost as bad as squawklogic.

Sad ...

5,000 unsold tickets at $55 a pop ='s NOTHING.

Plus ... if you think about it, KSU really had about 7-8,000 unsold tickets since they've proven that you can jam 52-53,000 into that stadium.

So in reality, KSU has had about 30,000 unsold tickets so far this year.

"Unsold tickets are good" ... Mr. Whitelogic.





Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: FBWillie on September 26, 2006, 02:28:11 PM
Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.
which is the very definition of a "Bandwagon Fan"
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: jmlynch1 on September 26, 2006, 04:46:44 PM
Not really. We bitched and bitched that if we bring a top-10 OOC game to Manhattan people will buy tickets for whatever price.

That was back when we were good.
which is the very definition of a "Bandwagon Fan"
welcome to KSU :ksu:
Title: Re: This is retarded.
Post by: sonofdaxjones on September 26, 2006, 05:06:00 PM
 :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: :ksu: