KSUFans Archives

Fan Life => The Endzone Dive => Topic started by: AzCat on March 10, 2008, 04:01:02 AM

Title: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: AzCat on March 10, 2008, 04:01:02 AM
Vested interests bury proof:

http://www.dailytech.com/Researcher+Basic+Greenhouse+Equations+Totally+Wrong/article10973.htm
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: fatty fat fat on March 10, 2008, 06:22:36 AM
is that an onion article?

that math part was pretty onion-esque.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 09:05:06 AM
Does this mean I can take 'carbon credits' out of my investment portfolio??
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 10, 2008, 09:10:02 AM
No it'll be a good 20 years before the folks making a buck on this stop Goring the gullible.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 09:17:04 AM
This can't be helping much:

Quote
Climate change and global variability

5 March 2008

A significant drop in global average temperature in January 2008 has led to speculation that the Earth is experiencing a period of sustained cooling.

full story at this link (http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/news/cc_global_variability.html)
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 10, 2008, 09:26:05 AM
That's why they shifted the mantra from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change" a few years ago.  The solar cycle was due to turn around 2010-ish and pretty much everyone knew that would erase the alleged warming (century of global warming erased: http://www.dailytech.com/Temperature+Monitors+Report+Worldwide+Global+Cooling/article10866.htm). 

Thankfully no draconian carbon taxes / reduction laws were put in place so the whackjobs on the left can't take credit.  They're now left to whine, "But we told you it wasn't just warming, it was 'climate change'!  CO2 is cooling the Earth!  Glaciers will advance as far south as North Texas if we don't stop filling the atmosphere with the CO2 that's causing ... (wait for it) ... Global Cooling!"

There are fortunes to be made here for years to come.  Heck Al Gore has made in excess of $100,000,000 since his exit from the office of the VP. 
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: PCR on March 10, 2008, 11:24:12 AM
Thanks... I'll be sure and send the link to the Polar Bears so they know when they are drowning this year that it snowed in Baghdad and China had a cold winter.  Hopefully that will make them feel better about the loss of habitat due to imagined global warming. 
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: pissclams on March 10, 2008, 11:29:17 AM
Thanks... I'll be sure and send the link to the Polar Bears so they know when they are drowning this year that it snowed in Baghdad and China had a cold winter.  Hopefully that will make them feel better about the loss of habitat due to imagined global warming. 
if a polar bear drowns then he was an idiot in the first place
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 11:35:14 AM
Thanks... I'll be sure and send the link to the Polar Bears so they know when they are drowning this year that it snowed in Baghdad and China had a cold winter.  Hopefully that will make them feel better about the loss of habitat due to imagined global warming. 

In the last 30 or so years, when sea ice has allegedly decreased, the polar bear population has not:

Quote
Polar bears have increased from a population of 5,000 in 1972 to between 20,000 and 25,000 today.

link to story: Polar bears caught in a heated eco-debate (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2008-03-09-polar-bears_N.htm?csp=34)
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: sys on March 10, 2008, 12:20:30 PM
Quote from: ksdb and azcat
hey guys, we're still dumbasses.  please don't forget.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: slucat on March 10, 2008, 12:29:32 PM
ok you stupid earth hating tards;

it is not exact proof that the earth is getting hotter or colder, but one thing you can not deny is that using dirty fuels and industries that emit anything other than CO2 or O2 is crapty. it is crapty for your lungs, for the smog it makes, and for the waste it creates. do you think using all our NON-renewable resources is a good idea? perhaps, just perhaps, the US should think ahead and try to get its act together now, regardless of globing climate change, so we're not falling behind in global technology, increasing costs and taking a big dump on mother earth. don't those things out weigh the thought of "if global warming is a hoax"?

let's fix things before they become a big problem, the technology is out there to do amazing things that pollute less and use re-newable technology.

what reasons are there to keep being wastefull and pollute if we don't need to? nevermind the off chance that we may be irreversabilby changing our climate to unstable and unheard of levels that our current population (and population distribution) can not deal with...
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 12:34:33 PM
ok you stupid earth hating tards;

it is not exact proof that the earth is getting hotter or colder, but one thing you can not deny is that using dirty fuels and industries that emit anything other than CO2 or O2 is crapty.
That's not the issue behind gullobal warming. It's the things that DO emit CO2 that are alleged to be the problem.

it is crapty for your lungs, for the smog it makes, and for the waste it creates. do you think using all our NON-renewable resources is a good idea?
It's fine. Just don't use baseless scare tactics to promote the use of such resources.

perhaps, just perhaps, the US should think ahead and try to get its act together now, regardless of globing climate change, so we're not falling behind in global technology, increasing costs and taking a big dump on mother earth. don't those things out weigh the thought of "if global warming is a hoax"?
First, the U.S. more than likely spends much more money on gullobal warming research than the rest of the world combined. For example, here at K-State, we have a researcher getting $1 million grant to study the effect of dirt on gullobal warming. The driver behind gullobal warming is leveraging cash for research and regulations.

let's fix things before they become a big problem, the technology is out there to do amazing things that pollute less and use re-newable technology.

what reasons are there to keep being wastefull and pollute if we don't need to? nevermind the off chance that we may be irreversabilby changing our climate to unstable and unheard of levels that our current population (and population distribution) can not deal with...
If you want to make changes, then be honest about it. For starters, the polar bears aren't dying off from gullobal warming.

Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 12:36:00 PM
I need negative attention because I'm not smart enough to discuss this topic.

It's okay. We'll help you.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 10, 2008, 12:43:12 PM
LOL @ sys the hippie..

To the rest of you supposed supporters of AGW, all I need from you is the exact scientific study that says a doubling of CO2 = 2.5 degree Celsius temperature increase.

Let me know when you guys find that scientific paper.

Otherwise.. STFU.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 10, 2008, 01:24:49 PM
... using dirty fuels and industries that emit anything other than CO2 or O2 is crapty. it is crapty for your lungs, for the smog it makes, and for the waste it creates.

As a former resident of the Los Angeles area I couldn't agree more.  It really sucked those afternoons when I couldn't see the San Gabriel Mountains from my office window despite the fact that they were barely five miles away.  However, lying and inventing a crisis in order to address an issue you haven't been successful in addressing directly is not only bad policy it will, in the long run, damage your cause.  Once the global warming hoax is widely seen as the fraud it is folks trying to effect change for the right reasons will face that much more skepticism and that much more resistance. 

do you think using all our NON-renewable resources is a good idea?

It really depends on whether we're happy living in detached single family homes and having mobility independent of our physical condition or the whims of whatever agency happens to be running the local public transportation.  If you want to move to a commune by all means, move to a commune.  Personally I'll pass because I know for a fact that the free market, if the left doesn't manage to tax or regulate it out of existence, will replace non-renewable sources of energy as the cost of using it becomes unbearable.  In a century or two all of these issues will work themselves out.  Distorting the market via drastic government intervention will only impede progress in that direction. 

Right now people are getting rich selling global warming propaganda and suckling at the government teat "researching" a hoax.  Better to take the carbon tax/credit nonsense off the table and allow the markets to move towards a real long-term solution rather than having the government attempt to choose winners.  Ethanol anyone?  Wind turbines that kill raptors?  Offshore wind farms that damage the marine environment?  Legislating clean coal plants right out of the market in favor of clean burning natural gas then wondering why the price of said gas increases seven fold in under a decade.  Etc.  The only guarantee is that whatever solution the government favors will be, at the absolute best sub-optimal and more likely downright asinine.

let's fix things before they become a big problem, the technology is out there to do amazing things that pollute less and use re-newable technology.

Of course and right now we're doing the best thing imaginable to make that happen: allowing oil prices to stay high.  Every time you hear a politician talking about reducing the cost of oil / gasoline what they're really saying is, "I don't care about environmentally friendly fuels or renewable energy." 

what reasons are there to keep being wastefull and pollute if we don't need to? nevermind the off chance that we may be irreversabilby changing our climate to unstable and unheard of levels that our current population (and population distribution) can not deal with...

Because doing so will guarantee that we're forced to make changes sooner rather than later.  Conservation of oil merely prolongs our dependence on it by guaranteeing a supply for that many more years.  Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.

And if the climate is irreversible warming (it is not BTW) every warm period in human history has coincided with great advances in science and the arts, every cold period with a decline of the same.  Yet more proof that lefties desperately want to return to the Dark Ages.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2008, 03:05:43 PM
Just because it will drive ksudb/azcat/mjrod et al bonkers:

what is the motivation for scientists to claim that global warming exists?

what is the motivation for scientists to claim that global warming does not exist?

which group has the greater motivation?

thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2008, 03:09:55 PM
if a polar bear drowns then he was an idiot in the first place

This post made it worth wandering in here
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 03:19:50 PM
Just because it will drive ksudb/azcat/mjrod et al bonkers:

what is the motivation for scientists to claim that global warming exists?
That's already been addre$$ed.

what is the motivation for scientists to claim that global warming does not exist?
Because some scientists know better than to make baseless proclamations.

which group has the greater motivation?

thanks in advance!
The group that stands to benefit more financially probably has the 'greater' motivation.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 10, 2008, 03:35:03 PM
LOL @ kat kid for being vague.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2008, 03:35:39 PM
Just because it will drive ksudb/azcat/mjrod et al bonkers:

what is the motivation for scientists to claim that global warming exists?
That's already been addre$$ed.

what is the motivation for scientists to claim that global warming does not exist?
Because some scientists know better than to make baseless proclamations.

which group has the greater motivation?

thanks in advance!
The group that stands to benefit more financially probably has the 'greater' motivation.

Agree.  What makes you think Exxon Mobil is less able to influence scientists than Green Peace?
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 03:37:57 PM
Agree.  What makes you think Exxon Mobil is less able to influence scientists than Green Peace?
They aren't necessarily less able.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 10, 2008, 03:38:52 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 03:42:21 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2008, 03:46:41 PM
Agree.  What makes you think Exxon Mobil is less able to influence scientists than Green Peace?
They aren't necessarily less able.

How about Exxon Mobil (just Exxon, we'll leave out BP, Citgo, Phillips/Connoco) vs. every single Environmental NGO/Non-Profit?

Is there any doubt about the amount of entrenched financial, political and economic leverage in this?

I have no idea about the science, I'm not a climatologist.  I've never seen Gore's movie, I think Malthusian claims are somewhat excitable/unrealistic, I think that private ownership is an important counter-weight to govt. idea's about what is best use for land.

But to pretend that the vested interests here are not enormously in favor of there being some sort of contrarian research is just plainly dishonest.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2008, 03:47:51 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Yeah, that sounds completely irrelevant.

I can't believe how dumb you are.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 10, 2008, 03:49:45 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Yeah, that sounds completely irrelevant.

I can't believe how dumb you are.

It is irrelevant.  Unless you can show that such research is worthless simply because of the possibility they might have some political influence, then you're just blowing hot air.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 03:52:28 PM
Yeah, that sounds completely irrelevant.
If ExxonMobil is the evil corporation they wouldn't be spending millions of dollars with institutions that undermine it's business.

I can't believe how dumb you are.
Tyler Hansbrough puts up another 3 pointer ...
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2008, 03:55:26 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Yeah, that sounds completely irrelevant.

I can't believe how dumb you are.

It is irrelevant.  Unless you can show that such research is worthless simply because of the possibility they might have some political influence, then you're just blowing hot air.


The burden of proof is on those providing the scientific research.  You know, peer review, scientific method, ability to re-create conditions and find similar results.

The source of money is ALWAYS a source of consideration in bias.  It is why you reject anything cited by MediaMatters out of hand.  I'm not even making an argument about global warming, it just reeks of 'doth protest too much' defensive posturing when you won't allow the possibility that the source of funding for scientific experimentation might have substantive effects on the products.  I mean it is possible, right?
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Kat Kid on March 10, 2008, 03:56:35 PM
Yeah, that sounds completely irrelevant.
If ExxonMobil is the evil corporation they wouldn't be spending millions of dollars with institutions that undermine it's business.

I can't believe how dumb you are.
Tyler Hansbrough puts up another 3 pointer ...


I'm not explaining this to you.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: steve dave on March 10, 2008, 03:57:37 PM
I can't believe how dumb you are.

This can't be emphasised enough

here comes my MJ scolding
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 04:14:32 PM
How about Exxon Mobil (just Exxon, we'll leave out BP, Citgo, Phillips/Connoco) vs. every single Environmental NGO/Non-Profit?
Give us the numbers and show us what you think is happening.

Is there any doubt about the amount of entrenched financial, political and economic leverage in this?
Look at the number of climate research organizations that have popped up in the last 10 or 20 years. This was a nonexistant field at one time.

I have no idea about the science, I'm not a climatologist.
This statement approaches brilliance ... almost like a supernova that will only occur once in our lifetimes.

 
I've never seen Gore's movie, I think Malthusian claims are somewhat excitable/unrealistic, I think that private ownership is an important counter-weight to govt. idea's about what is best use for land.

But to pretend that the vested interests here are not enormously in favor of there being some sort of contrarian research is just plainly dishonest.
There may be vested interests, but it's debatable that it favors the side of contrarian research. Governments can funnel millions or billions of dollars to support the AGW agenda and use that agenda to tax those industries.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 04:16:43 PM
I can't believe how dumb you are.

This can't be emphasised enough

here comes my MJ scolding
I love it. Everytime I post, it elicits a bunch of childish insults. Thanks for letting me control your miserable life. Roll over, Steve. Play dead, Steve. Steve, quit licking yourself.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 04:19:00 PM
I'm not explaining this to you.

Translation: ksdb has pwned me again.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: cireksu on March 10, 2008, 04:36:49 PM
I can't wait for the day that Global Warming/Not warming is solved through debate on this board.  MJ would you go public with that publicity?
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: cyclist on March 10, 2008, 05:00:19 PM
Proof positive there is Global Warming:

(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o70/ClaudioCyclist/GlobalWarming.jpg?t=1205186363)

;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 10, 2008, 05:16:38 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Yeah, that sounds completely irrelevant.

I can't believe how dumb you are.

It is irrelevant.  Unless you can show that such research is worthless simply because of the possibility they might have some political influence, then you're just blowing hot air.


The burden of proof is on those providing the scientific research.  You know, peer review, scientific method, ability to re-create conditions and find similar results.

The source of money is ALWAYS a source of consideration in bias.  It is why you reject anything cited by MediaMatters out of hand.  I'm not even making an argument about global warming, it just reeks of 'doth protest too much' defensive posturing when you won't allow the possibility that the source of funding for scientific experimentation might have substantive effects on the products.  I mean it is possible, right?

And what makes you think any scientific work by Exxon or its subsidiary's is not being published?

I like how you try and make light of the process without ever offering anything of substance to back up your condescending approach.   You think I don't understand the scientific process?

Let me help you.. I know of scientists that DO publish work that shows the opposite of the widely held belief and are labeled as being on the Exxon payroll.   Is that a way to handle the scientific process?  Simply because a corporation such as Exxon funds it, it's somehow not science?
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 10, 2008, 05:20:36 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Whereas governmental agencies spent $5,000,000,000 on global warming research last year and the amount is increasing rapidly.  Last time I checked $5,000,000,000 > $35,000,000. 

HTH
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 10, 2008, 05:31:55 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Whereas governmental agencies spent $5,000,000,000 on global warming research last year and the amount is increasing rapidly.  Last time I checked $5,000,000,000 > $35,000,000. 

HTH

The argument is that government is neutral.. by the AGW crowd.   So that's OK.

LOL.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Dirty Sanchez on March 10, 2008, 05:59:28 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Whereas governmental agencies spent $5,000,000,000 on global warming research last year and the amount is increasing rapidly.  Last time I checked $5,000,000,000 > $35,000,000. 

HTH

The argument is that government is neutral.. by the AGW crowd.   So that's OK.

LOL.

Sounds like "The Media is not liberal...by the new york times."
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 10, 2008, 06:17:07 PM
Exxon Mobile is the failsafe, albeit completely irrelevant issue, in the global warming charade.


Definitely. People tend overlook the fact that ExxonMobil gives about $35 million a year to higher education institutions, most of which are research universities where a lot of the climate change research occurs..

Whereas governmental agencies spent $5,000,000,000 on global warming research last year and the amount is increasing rapidly.  Last time I checked $5,000,000,000 > $35,000,000. 

HTH

The argument is that government is neutral.. by the AGW crowd.   So that's OK.

LOL.


Let's presume that's actually true (by ignoring the overwhelming interest government has in asserting more control over huge swaths of the economy and taxing it to death).  You still need to examine the dynamics of research grants:

Grantee A - Proves hypothesis that man-made global warming is a hoax.  In addition to being hugely unpopular with power/money hungry politicians this researcher has no valid follow-on hypothesis upon which to base further grant requests so she must move on to a new area of study.

Grantee B - Proves hypothesis that a significant portion of global warming is due to human influence.  This grantee gains political clout by telling government what it wants to hear but she also is blessed with dozens if not hundreds of easily identifiable follow-on hypotheses related to the nature and exent of the problem she identified ... all of which are ripe for further funding.

Government research grants are an absolute gravy train but only for those who are willing to cynically perpetuate even demonstrably false findings for their own personal gain.  Sad but that's how politicized "science" works.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: sys on March 10, 2008, 07:19:18 PM
I can't believe how dumb you are.

This can't be emphasised enough

here comes my MJ scolding

it's very frustrating, because it is kind of difficult to use this issue to show how retardish ksdb is without also calling azcat a retard. 
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 08:57:27 PM
it's very frustrating, because it is kind of difficult to use this issue to show how retardish ksdb is without also calling azcat a retard. 
So instead of being objective about the topic, all you care about is chasing me around with a personal vendetta?? C'mon, don't you have better ways to spend your time??
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: chum1 on March 10, 2008, 09:00:49 PM
I'm still undecided on global warming.  What should I believe?
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: cyclist on March 10, 2008, 09:12:41 PM
I'm still undecided on global warming.  What should I believe?

Believe my post !

:cyclist: :cyclist: :cyclist: :cyclist:
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: sam adams on March 10, 2008, 11:12:48 PM
I'm still undecided on global warming.  What should I believe?

Educate yourself for God's sake!  But know that ksdb is fracking moron, azcat is too snarky to be taken seriously, and mjrod is the worst poster on the internet.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ChiefCatchacold on March 10, 2008, 11:23:00 PM
(http://static.flickr.com/54/139092366_ce5b410228_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 10, 2008, 11:40:42 PM
chum..

The argument is not about whether there is global warming.  It's about catastrophic man made climate change.  Folks like sam adams (who by the way is the most unintelligent if not blatantly stupid posters) want you to believe that you, as a human, can effect significant change in the weather and climate so as to create an atmosphere where all life on the planet will suffer irreparable harm.   

They are telling you the planet is dying.  Yet, they offer ZERO proof.   When asked, they will only tell you that if you don't believe them, then you must be Exxon lapdog.   

They say "It is getting warmer" but when you question them on how they know.. and what they know.. they will tell you that evil corporations are blinding you to the truth.   Then they will attempt to convince you that you need to help them organize a music fest, one where others will descend to sing songs of joy, love, and peace, and to condemn violently the mega corporate monopoly.

Don't let them fool you.  Make sure you question the evidence of global warming.  Ask them things like "Why are Bristlecone Pines temperature proxies?"   "Who is responsible for the Vikings landing on Greenland and establishing large colonies where there is ice now?"   "Why is it that we need to adjust the temperature records COLDER in the past 50 years?"

The answers are out there and beckoning, but a concerted effort by the human haters (a group of liberal humans who believe that mankind is evil and must be wiped out, save for themselves) is being deployed to stop you from knowing the truth.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 10, 2008, 11:46:31 PM
Actually, there's plenty of reason to doubt that there is global warming period. The hottest year in the 114 years of fairly reliable instrument records (look up heat island effect and you'll question how reliable these records are) is 1997 which was matched in 2005. IOW, the temperature is not continuing to climb and from January 2007 to January 2008 there's been a huge drop in global temperature. Another question that is never addressed has to do with the optimum global temperature. What should the Earth's average temperature be and why?
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: slucat on March 11, 2008, 09:46:09 AM
As a geologist, I have taken a few paleo climatoloty classes during my graduate work, and I can safely say that the conflict is not if the climate is changing, but how fast it is changing.  If one looks at ice core records from the last 10k+ years, the earth is the warmest now. This conclusion is come to over and over again looking at several different data sets and using several different things to moderate. The climate changes in cycles, the problem most scientist are having is the RATE of the change.  Is the accelerateion of the change man made or not is still up for debate IMO, but the science leans heavily toward yes.  And for every one article that says climate change (aka global warming) is a myth, I can probably find 100 that say its not.  These are written by scientists from all over the world and have been noting this change since the 60's.  What is happening now only supports their work.

Also, if anyone looks at a daily or monthly trend of temperatures, clearly does not understand the scientific method. Another point is increaseing oceanic temperatures will cause changes in weather patterns, some for the better some not, identifing a few positives in your favor; Bagdad saw snow, is clearly an outlyer, lets look at the temperature swings globally and the general trend of increasing land and water temps world wide.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 11, 2008, 09:59:18 AM
As a geologist, I have taken a few paleo climatoloty classes during my graduate work, and I can safely say that the conflict is not if the climate is changing, but how fast it is changing.  If one looks at ice core records from the last 10k+ years, the earth is the warmest now.
No, about 4,000 years ago and 7,000 years ago show temperature peaks much higher than today.

(http://www.geography.hunter.cuny.edu/~tbw/wc.notes/14.climate.change/temp.var.ice.core.jpg)

 
This conclusion is come to over and over again looking at several different data sets and using several different things to moderate. The climate changes in cycles, the problem most scientist are having is the RATE of the change.  Is the accelerateion of the change man made or not is still up for debate IMO, but the science leans heavily toward yes.  And for every one article that says climate change (aka global warming) is a myth, I can probably find 100 that say its not.  These are written by scientists from all over the world and have been noting this change since the 60's.  What is happening now only supports their work.

Also, if anyone looks at a daily or monthly trend of temperatures, clearly does not understand the scientific method. Another point is increaseing oceanic temperatures will cause changes in weather patterns, some for the better some not, identifing a few positives in your favor; Bagdad saw snow, is clearly an outlyer, lets look at the temperature swings globally and the general trend of increasing land and water temps world wide.
The guesses about rate of change are based on very small amounts of data, especially compared to paleoclimactic records. Looking at the graph I just posted of the last 40,000 years, there are several time periods that have seen dramatic rates and ranges of temperature change that obviously exceed anything we're experiencing now (for example, about a 5 degree increase between 15,000 to 14,000 years ago. This was a few years before man started driving SUVs.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 11, 2008, 02:10:24 PM
Heard this one on the radio earlier today and have now found a story online to go with it. It's throwing out a great deal of speculation on the alleged effects of AGW, but notice that we now have concrete reasons (pun intended) to take action, IOW, raise taxes to pay for things that we are told we will need. They claim, for example, that the surface temperature in the United States is going to go up 8 degrees. For this to happen, the temperature would need to start rising about a degree per decade and as of yet, we've seen nothing close to this happen in a previous decade.

Quote
Report: Climate change to affect transportation system

Flooded roads and subways, deformed railroad tracks and weakened bridges may be the wave of the future with continuing global warming, a new study says.
Climate change will affect every type of transportation through rising sea levels, increased rainfall and surges from more intense storms, the National Research Council said in a report released Tuesday.

Complicating matters, people continue to move into coastal areas, creating the need for more roads and services in the most vulnerable regions, the report noted.

"We believe that the threats to our transportation system are real," Henry Schwartz Jr. said in a briefing. He is past president and chairman of the engineering firm Sverdrup/Jacobs Civil Inc., and chairman of the committee that wrote the report.

The storm that has been a once-in-a-hundred-years event may become a once-in-50-years, he said, adding, "What is the proper level to design for?"


rest of story at link (http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/globalwarming/2008-03-11-climate-transportation_N.htm)

Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: Dirty Sanchez on March 11, 2008, 04:40:23 PM
http://www.surfacestations.org/

This is a link to a site studying NOAA weather stations and their flawed methodology.  So far, 502 of the nation's 1221 weather stations have been cataloged to see if they meet NOAA specifications and give accurate temperature readings.  As the graph indicates, 69% of all the stations surveyed thus far raise temperatures 4-5 degrees over what is actual.  Another 18% are 3 degrees off.  Among the reasons for this are stupid designs of where the weather stations are located or how they are constructed.  Some have air conditioner exhaust blowing right on them.  Others are sitting right next to a big slab of asphalt or concrete.  Others have hot light bulbs next to them or are painted with sunlight-absorbing paint.  NOAA has rules regarding the placement of these, but often these stations are old and development has come up around them.  And we're using these as "official" climate data.



There is one on campus.  It appears to be somewhere north of Dole Hall.  They are actually looking for people to do official studies of these and submit them to their site. 

Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 11, 2008, 05:36:32 PM
And the surface station issues have led to flaws in the data set as well, something that  no one on the left wants to discuss.  Most of the surface metadata has been "corrected" by varying amounts based on estimates of the over or under-reporting of temperatures at each surface station.  The truly troubling thing is that many corrections have been applied in recent years to decades old data. 

The same is true of satellite temperature data.  The birds don't pass over a given point on the surface of the Earth at the same time of day / year for each measurement so corrections must be applied which yields nothing more than an estimated temperature measurement, "Well, if the satellite had been here this is probably what it would have seen ...."  Some corrections lead to findins cooling trends in recent years, some to findings of no change since the late 70s, some to findings of warming. 

The hard cold truth is that we just don't really know what in the heck is happening with global climate.  By all means, keep researching but let's lay off the sorts of proposals that will roll us back to a pre-industrial revolution manner of living (see e.g., recent bleats from the left of 'only zero carbon emissions worldwide can slow global warming') for a few more years until there really is an undeniable truth which is readily apparent.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: chum1 on March 11, 2008, 06:09:54 PM
You have to admit, it was pretty friggin hot last summer.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 11, 2008, 06:13:49 PM
You have to admit, it was pretty friggin hot last summer.

And there have been hotter summers.


Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ArchE_Cat on March 11, 2008, 10:52:36 PM
Thanks... I'll be sure and send the link to the Polar Bears so they know when they are drowning this year that it snowed in Baghdad and China had a cold winter.  Hopefully that will make them feel better about the loss of habitat due to imagined global warming. 

"...As we're sung to sleep by philosophies, That save the trees and kill the children..."
- Wile You Were Sleeping
 Lifesong
 Casting Crowns
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 11, 2008, 11:20:58 PM
We've seen this movie before but with different players.  Fill in the blank:

Quote
And ____________, at times, could sound like a veritable Green utopian, discussing authoritatively and in detail various renewable energy sources (including environmentally appropriate hydropower and producing natural gas from sludge) as alternatives to coal, and declaring "water, winds and tides" as the energy path of the future.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: PCR on March 12, 2008, 12:22:25 PM
Thanks... I'll be sure and send the link to the Polar Bears so they know when they are drowning this year that it snowed in Baghdad and China had a cold winter.  Hopefully that will make them feel better about the loss of habitat due to imagined global warming. 

"...As we're sung to sleep by philosophies, That save the trees and kill the children..."
- Wile You Were Sleeping
 Lifesong
 Casting Crowns

It's all interconnected.  Besides we've got more than enough children.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: mjrod on March 12, 2008, 01:33:29 PM
Thanks... I'll be sure and send the link to the Polar Bears so they know when they are drowning this year that it snowed in Baghdad and China had a cold winter.  Hopefully that will make them feel better about the loss of habitat due to imagined global warming. 

"...As we're sung to sleep by philosophies, That save the trees and kill the children..."
- Wile You Were Sleeping
 Lifesong
 Casting Crowns

It's all interconnected.  Besides we've got more than enough children.

Did Polar bears not drown before global warming or is this just interconnected?
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: ksdb on March 17, 2008, 02:41:23 PM
The UN is now warning the world that glaciers are melting at 'record' rates ... of course, this is based on two or three decades worth of data and not this past winter, which has been notably cold. The agenda to scare people is pretty clear. The question I have is what makes the United Nations the expert on glaciers or a clearinghouse for scientific announcements??


Quote
UN: World's glaciers melting faster

Glaciers are shrinking at record rates and many could disappear within decades, the U.N. Environment Program said Sunday.

Scientists measuring the health of almost 30 glaciers around the world found that ice loss reached record levels in 2006, the U.N. agency said.

rest of story at link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080316/ap_on_sc/un_melting_glaciers_1)
Title: Re: Global warming "impossilbe"
Post by: AzCat on March 17, 2008, 08:03:24 PM
The question I have is what makes the United Nations the expert on glaciers or a clearinghouse for scientific announcements??

The fact that they believe they can usher in global socialism in the form of a carbon tax with them in charge of the slush fund.  Of course we're undermining their plans by making the dollar utterly worthless and slipping towards third-world-nation status.  I wonder if they'll slush some of the carbon tax funds our way when we're poor?   :blank:
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: BullHawkWheel on March 17, 2008, 10:11:35 PM
havent read this entire thread but the global cooling "studies" were indirectly funded by oil companies.  dont believe the results
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: mjrod on March 17, 2008, 10:20:38 PM
havent read this entire thread but the global cooling "studies" were indirectly funded by oil companies.  dont believe the results

What studies?  LP.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: ksdb on March 17, 2008, 10:26:54 PM
havent read this entire thread but the global cooling "studies" were indirectly funded by oil companies.  dont believe the results

If we reduced our carbon emissions and stopped global warming, we'd have to burn more carbon to keep warm when the world cools down again. The oil companies win in both scenarios.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: jeffy on March 17, 2008, 10:33:24 PM
havent read this entire thread but the global cooling "studies" were funded by people that drive vehicles that run on gas, which supports the oil companies.  dont believe the results
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: BullHawkWheel on March 17, 2008, 11:26:01 PM
i get what you are saying, but we really need to move in a more environmental friendly direction and get off of our dependence on oil.  greed is why we are taking this huge risk of destroying our environment.  the consequences of us being wrong is too high to risk, imo.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: AzCat on March 17, 2008, 11:30:30 PM
i get what you are saying, but we really need to move in a more environmental friendly direction and get off of our dependence on oil. 

But we don't need to do it by destroying the global economy, essentially outlawing transportation, and shuffling all humans out of single-family homes and back into caves.  Nor does it help to jump on the bandwagon of the fraudulent man-made global warming crowd since there will be a massive backlash against the environmental movement when the utter falsity of this comes to light in a few years. There are plenty of good reasons to move in this direction without all of the present nonsense. 
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: ksdb on March 17, 2008, 11:35:49 PM
Hey, if we cut carbon emissions enough, we can kill off the plants that make oxygen. That would be superty-duperty.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: AzCat on March 17, 2008, 11:56:47 PM
Hey, if we cut carbon emissions enough, we can kill off the plants that make oxygen. That would be superty-duperty.

I have a funny feeling that if one includes humans breathing and cows farting reaching Al Gore's latest "90% reduction" target would require not only shuttering all the factories, closing all the power plants, and permanently parking all the vehicles but would probably also necessitate drastic reductions in human population and food supply.  I think I read this novel ....
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: ksdb on March 18, 2008, 10:09:18 AM
i get what you are saying, but we really need to move in a more environmental friendly direction and get off of our dependence on oil.  greed is why we are taking this huge risk of destroying our environment.  the consequences of us being wrong is too high to risk, imo.

Didn't see a reply to MJ's question. What studies on global cooling were you referencing??
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: ksdb on March 19, 2008, 11:53:11 PM
Latest on Gullobal Warming:

An interesting story on NPR ... interesting how they overlook the most likely explanation for the so-called 'mystery.'

Quote
The Mystery of Global Warming's Missing Heat

Some 3,000 scientific robots that are plying the ocean have sent home a puzzling message. These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not warmed up at all over the past four or five years. That could mean global warming has taken a breather. Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their robots are telling them.

This is puzzling in part because here on the surface of the Earth, the years since 2003 have been some of the hottest on record. But Josh Willis at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory says the oceans are what really matter when it comes to global warming.

link to rest of story (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025)

In reply to the highlight part, notice how the scientists blame their bots instead of admitting the simplest explanation: maybe the ocean's aren't warming because there's no global warming.

Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: steve dave on March 20, 2008, 12:53:00 AM
My god ksdb, F'ing   :flush:
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: ksdb on March 20, 2008, 08:27:16 AM
My god ksdb, F'ing   

We already know that you're the toilet diving champ. Can you comment on the topic without drooling stool water??
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: mjrod on March 22, 2008, 10:52:13 AM
Global Cooling continues.. (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23411799-7583,00.html)

Duffy: "Can you tell us about NASA's Aqua satellite, because I understand some of the data we're now getting is quite important in our understanding of how climate works?"

Marohasy: "That's right. The satellite was only launched in 2002 and it enabled the collection of data, not just on temperature but also on cloud formation and water vapour. What all the climate models suggest is that, when you've got warming from additional carbon dioxide, this will result in increased water vapour, so you're going to get a positive feedback. That's what the models have been indicating. What this great data from the NASA Aqua satellite ... (is) actually showing is just the opposite, that with a little bit of warming, weather processes are compensating, so they're actually limiting the greenhouse effect and you're getting a negative rather than a positive feedback."

Duffy: "The climate is actually, in one way anyway, more robust than was assumed in the climate models?"

Marohasy: "That's right ... These findings actually aren't being disputed by the meteorological community. They're having trouble digesting the findings, they're acknowledging the findings, they're acknowledging that the data from NASA's Aqua satellite is not how the models predict, and I think they're about to recognise that the models really do need to be overhauled and that when they are overhauled they will probably show greatly reduced future warming projected as a consequence of carbon dioxide."

Duffy: "From what you're saying, it sounds like the implications of this could beconsiderable ..."

Marohasy: "That's right, very much so. The policy implications are enormous. The meteorological community at the moment is really just coming to terms with the output from this NASA Aqua satellite and (climate scientist) Roy Spencer's interpretation of them. His work is published, his work is accepted, but I think people are still in shock at this point."

If Marohasy is anywhere near right about the impending collapse of the global warming paradigm, life will suddenly become a whole lot more interesting.
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: Cat Maniac on March 22, 2008, 08:10:31 PM
We must socialize the world and end the industrial era as we know it today, in order to prevent the terrifying consequences of global weather moderation.

For the children...
Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: PCR on March 26, 2008, 11:38:54 AM
Weird how this happened when global temperatures are actually falling this year.  I wonder if the "data" some of you guys are presenting might actually be a bit misleading? 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080326/ts_afp/usclimateantarctic_080326111528 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080326/ts_afp/usclimateantarctic_080326111528)

Title: Re: Global warming "impossible"
Post by: ksdb on March 26, 2008, 04:56:40 PM
Weird how this happened when global temperatures are actually falling this year.  I wonder if the "data" some of you guys are presenting might actually be a bit misleading? 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080326/ts_afp/usclimateantarctic_080326111528 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080326/ts_afp/usclimateantarctic_080326111528)



Not weird at all. There was a similar 'collapse' in 2002 (in March, which is at the end of summer in the southern hemisphere):

link to: Larsen B Ice Shelf Collapses in Antarctica (http://nsidc.org/iceshelves/larsenb2002/)


A few years later, they reported that these ice shelves disintegrate and reappear frequently throughout history:

link to: Big ice shelf's disappearing act  (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6206672.stm)