KSUFans Archives

Sports => Frank Martin's OOD sponsored by the "Angriest Fans in America" => Topic started by: sys on February 28, 2008, 01:34:09 PM

Title: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 01:34:09 PM
worst in the big 12.  no wonder ksu is sinking.

http://huskerhoopscentral.activeboard.com/index.spark?forumID=113259&p=3&topicID=15686511

Title: Re: very sad
Post by: MOKSUAZ on February 28, 2008, 01:36:43 PM
worst in the big 12.  no wonder ksu is sinking.

http://huskerhoopscentral.activeboard.com/index.spark?forumID=113259&p=3&topicID=15686511



nebrasketball = very, very HBBIQ.  don't ever question a husker. :ohno:
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2008, 01:37:42 PM
The "top tier" list for coaching is the about the same as the "bottom tier" list for recruiting "bottom tier" list for coaching is about the same as the "top tier" list for talent.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 01:43:09 PM
The "top tier" list for coaching is the about the same as the "bottom tier" list for recruiting "bottom tier" list for coaching is about the same as the "top tier" list for talent.

only coaches w. no talent can coach their players to exceed their inherent abilities.  coaches w. talent can only induce underperformances.

this is why everone is always saying wait till next season to see how good martin is.

although no one mentions it, we'll only see how bad capel is next year w. warren and grif (assuming he stays) for the same reason.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: catzacker on February 28, 2008, 01:52:57 PM
The "top tier" list for coaching is the about the same as the "bottom tier" list for recruiting "bottom tier" list for coaching is about the same as the "top tier" list for talent.

only coaches w. no talent can coach their players to exceed their inherent abilities.  coaches w. talent can only induce underperformances.

this is why everone is always saying wait till next season to see how good martin is.

although no one mentions it, we'll only see how bad capel is next year w. warren and grif (assuming he stays) for the same reason.

QFT.  I enjoy the people who say "we'll know if Matin can coach next year".  If you can't make that decision after this year, you can't after next year.  If MB and BW stayed, would we have to wait until '09? 
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: mcmwcat on February 28, 2008, 01:57:15 PM
i couldn't give 2 $H!ts about coaching abilities when stacked against recruiting abilities.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2008, 01:59:44 PM
I think the Bz love is at least ridiculous as the Martin hate.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2008, 02:00:04 PM
i couldn't give 2 $H!ts about coaching abilities when stacked against recruiting abilities.

and there you have it.  I agree 100%!
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:07:20 PM
I think the Bz love is at least ridiculous as the Martin hate.

you must have missed where he kicked silas off the team.  ++ coaching move.

if martin were to kick walker off of ksu's team, he would move up into the middle tier.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: Saulbadguy on February 28, 2008, 02:11:08 PM
I think the Bz love is at least ridiculous as the Martin hate.
if martin were to kick walker off of ksu's team, he would move up into the middle tier.
We should investigate that. 
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: catzacker on February 28, 2008, 02:11:37 PM
i couldn't give 2 $H!ts about coaching abilities when stacked against recruiting abilities.

Where does Drew and Sutton fall in this conversation?  Sys is restricted from commenting on Drew.  
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: cireksu on February 28, 2008, 02:15:33 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: steve dave on February 28, 2008, 02:15:59 PM
I hate nebrasketball the most of all. I hope we play them in the Big 12 Tourney second round. I bet we beat them by 22 and Stadler gets an A+ for excellent coaching.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:16:43 PM
Where does Drew and Sutton fall in this conversation?  Sys is restricted from commenting on Drew.  

sutton = ++ for recruiting, - for player retention.  sum = +

drew =  :blank: (as mandated)
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: cireksu on February 28, 2008, 02:17:31 PM
Drew's done a heckuva job down there in waco.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:18:56 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?

2 nba players, 10 d2 players?

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=23786.0
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: cireksu on February 28, 2008, 02:19:51 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?

2 nba players, 10 d2 players?

http://www.ksufans.com/forums/index.php?topic=23786.0

:sarcasm:
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2008, 02:23:04 PM
i couldn't give 2 $H!ts about coaching abilities when stacked against recruiting abilities.

Where does Drew and Sutton fall in this conversation?  Sys is restricted from commenting on Drew. 

Here's my thoughts:  things like "x's and o's" and "chemistry" are pretty much unknowns unless you're hiring a "slam dunk" coach.  Things like recruiting relationships, recruiting plan, plan for hiring assistants, and quality of actual recruits landed (via things like RSCI), etc. are much easier to define and evaluate.  If you can consistently get quality talent into the program, like Drew and Sutton are, you will leave the next coach in a better situation than someone who wants to "coach 'em up" and fails.

So, in reality, choosing recruiting over x's and o's is the truly the superior "long term" option.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: catzacker on February 28, 2008, 02:23:43 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?

This is something that I am having a hard time coming to grips with.  I've been trying to justify it by saying that the surrounding talent is so poor and/or inexperienced that it is causing a lower return.  But at the end of the day, I have no real answer.  Maybe the conference is more difficult?  But that's kind of a cop-out.  
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: cireksu on February 28, 2008, 02:24:47 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?

This is something that I am having a hard time coming to grips with.  I've been trying to justify it by saying that the surrounding talent is so poor and/or inexperienced that it is causing a lower return.  But at the end of the day, I have no real answer.  Maybe the conference is more difficult?  But that's kind of a cop-out.  

It's easy, look at non beas/walker numbers in losses and compare them to games we've won.

beas and walker are always good(at least beas is).  The others are the key.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: catzacker on February 28, 2008, 02:31:59 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?

This is something that I am having a hard time coming to grips with.  I've been trying to justify it by saying that the surrounding talent is so poor and/or inexperienced that it is causing a lower return.  But at the end of the day, I have no real answer.  Maybe the conference is more difficult?  But that's kind of a cop-out.  

It's easy, look at non beas/walker numbers in losses.

I guess.  Who, besides BW and MB, would start or be 6/7 man for A&M, BU, ku, UT? 

Pullen?

I suppose when you look at it in those terms...but damn, if the rest of the players suck that bad, then why is there any real hope for next year or '09?  It's not like MB and BW aren't getting the rest of the team open shots. 
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: cireksu on February 28, 2008, 02:34:05 PM
depends on what you expect next year?  I'm expecting 7 wins in big 12 8-8 would be good, 9-7 great.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:34:59 PM
other teams that have 2 or more likely nba players:


ut
a&m
ou
osu
ku
isu
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: cireksu on February 28, 2008, 02:36:33 PM
other teams that have 2 or more likely nba players:


ut
a&m
ou
osu
ku
isu

maybe, none on the level of beas, and not many on the level of walker.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: Chingon on February 28, 2008, 02:39:08 PM
worst in the big 12.  no wonder ksu is sinking.

http://huskerhoopscentral.activeboard.com/index.spark?forumID=113259&p=3&topicID=15686511


(http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l150/interficio/talent_v_coaching.png)

That made everything clear to me.  I solved it mathematically and I am now ready to go be greatest coach in world with my team of vergito-ridden midgets.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:39:44 PM
maybe, none on the level of beas, and not many on the level of walker.

the real issue, imo.  even walker types are a dime a dozen in top conferences.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2008, 02:40:38 PM
other teams that have 2 or more likely nba players:


ut
a&m
ou
osu
ku
isu

maybe, none on the level of beas, and not many on the level of walker.

we are also ahead of all but two of those clowns in the standings, fwiw.

LOL at omitting bu from that list, too.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:44:58 PM
LOL at omitting bu from that list, too.

that wasn't out of hate.  i don't see two on that team.  jerrells probably scrapes in.  i don't see any of the other guards getting a shot.  maybe dunn if he improves (certainly he has a shot).

don't see any of the bigs getting in.

drew really has recruited right in the sweet spot of good college players wo nba early out talent.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: michigancat on February 28, 2008, 02:45:59 PM
LOL at omitting bu from that list, too.

that wasn't out of hate.  i don't see two on that team.  jerrells probably scrapes in.  i don't see any of the other guards getting a shot.  maybe dunn if he improves (certainly he has a shot).

don't see any of the bigs getting in.

drew really has recruited right in the sweet spot of good college players wo nba early out talent.

But you see two on OU, OSU, and ISU?
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 28, 2008, 02:47:01 PM
Someone should link that to the "Worst BCS Job" thread over on phogtard.net.

In another thread over there about everyone hating on K-State in the media, I LOL'd when I read Hoax go after JS for "attacking the messenger".  This from a guy who absolutely $hits his pants about every little thing Keitzman says about ku.  There's that ku based Hoaxian logic at work again . . . what a dumbass.



Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:50:56 PM
But you see two on OU, OSU, and ISU?

griffin/longar
anderson/dove
johnson/brackins

only griffin will be good, but i think the others will all get chances.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: cireksu on February 28, 2008, 02:56:30 PM
But you see two on OU, OSU, and ISU?

griffin/longar
anderson/dove
johnson/brackins

only griffin will be good, but i think the others will all get chances.

GMFB


aside from griffin none of those guys are close to walkers offensive skillz
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 02:59:49 PM
true.  not really the point.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: catzacker on February 28, 2008, 03:10:51 PM
What players could get on an NBA roster tomorrow?

Beasley, Walker, Griffin......who else?
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 28, 2008, 03:11:43 PM
Russ Rob
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: MOKSUAZ on February 28, 2008, 03:13:32 PM
Roby
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: sys on February 28, 2008, 03:23:48 PM
nebrasketball = very, very HBBIQ.  don't ever question a husker. :ohno:

isufans get high marks too (not ksu related, but funny).

http://www.cyclonefanatic.com/forum/mens-basketball/23401-tarheels-09-class-2.html
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: Bill Walker on February 28, 2008, 03:26:42 PM
griffin will go pro.

Title: Re: very sad
Post by: KSU4ME on February 28, 2008, 03:51:21 PM
What players could get on an NBA roster tomorrow?

Beasley, Walker, Griffin......who else?

Augustin.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: GoodForAnother on February 28, 2008, 03:58:47 PM
What a great thread.  nustudent ranking Martin 12th and Sadler 3rd...then saying that we had comparable talent...while we're comfortably ahead of them in the standings...was hilarious.
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: blackman-era-front-rower on February 28, 2008, 04:26:16 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?

especially when you note that in league (where it matters) we've gone 3-1 vs what would be considered 'quality teams' (ok, aTm, ku, tx) and 5-4 against the poorer ones (cu, isu, mu, nub, oklt, tt, mu, nub, bay)  (and don't try to tell me baylor is good... except for the five ot game they've done nothing)

how can you put that trending on anyone besides the coach?

it's not good

 :cyclist:
Title: Re: very sad
Post by: yosh on February 28, 2008, 05:10:30 PM
How can we justify going 9-7 with 2 NBA players on our team?

1.  Who said we are going 9-7?

2.
Stew, Gils and Sutton

Jan(6-0): 6 games 84pts 49rbs 30ass

Feb(3-5): 8 games 51pts 34rbs 24ass
 
That doesn't even account for the difference in defense, which was probably more problematic.