KSUFans Archives
Fan Life => The Endzone Dive => Topic started by: kougar24 on January 14, 2008, 04:18:09 PM
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If so, why? Be specific, plz.
ECN has already weighed in heavily on this issue. He's fighting the good fight for Apple. Your turn.
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the gf has a mac book pro, i love it and want one very badly.
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I used a Macbook for 9 months during an internship. For a casual user, it's very good (sans the inflated price). Simple and clean. For a power user, I would not recommend it as there are many problems. If you want me to go further, let me know. I'm not sure what you'd use it for.
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I have a Pro and yeah, it's pretty sweet. I just dig the simplicity of it. I understand everything that's going on with it. It offers a lot more applications than any PC I've ever had and it's much more innovative. Haven't had a problem with it yet and everyone I've ever talked to that's owned a Mac seems to like it just as much. I just use it recreationally so I have no idea if it would work well with whatever it is that you would want to do with it but it more than meets my needs (music, movies, internet, etc.)
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I'm going to make my comments- take them for what it is worth. No, I'm not bagging on Waks personally or anyone else, but I think there are plenty of arguments to be made. I will try to be fair and unbiased.
I have a Pro and yeah, it's pretty sweet. I just dig the simplicity of it.
To me, this sounds like a fifty year old that is overwhelmed with technology. "I'm dumb and can't understand my computer" comes to mind.-- With simplicity, you lose functionality. How do I queue up songs again without making a playlist in itunes? Again, I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but these are the kind of things that make me beat my head into a wall... seriously guys, mp3 players have been out for 15 years and you can't make a hot list for on-the-fly queuing?
I understand everything that's going on with it. It offers a lot more applications than any PC I've ever had and it's much more innovative.
Huh? What are you talking about? AFAIK, 99% of Mac applications can be used on PC. However only about half of PC applications can be used on a Mac. I'd like some references on this, seriously. Are they still giving people one button mouses? (I truly don't know the answer, not being a smart ass). Give me hard examples of innovative features, please.
Haven't had a problem with it yet and everyone I've ever talked to that's pwn3d a Mac seems to like it just as much.
This where you hear the 'well...Mac uses the same proprietary hardware. Therefore you don't have to write applications to work with a billion video cards, therefore you will have less bugs, therefore you will have less errors and problems with your machine... It is all about the hardware my friends and while you can upgrade, you are paying twice the price because they have no competition in hardware. The chances are good that most computers having issues should be blamed on the user itself rather than the operating system. Now obviously, windows isn't a perfect system, but you have to admit that it made GIANT steps with XP. Just having universal driver installation was a godsend in itself.
I just use it recreationally so I have no idea if it would work well with whatever it is that you would want to do with it but it more than meets my needs (music, movies, internet, etc.)
So you don't play games? The only games that are made for Mac consistently are Blizzard games, every other company you have to hope and pray they make it compatible. I suppose if you don't play games, then great, but I can buy a computer half the price to listen to music, movies, or internet... On the same subject, if you use Firefox, you will have half the problem you have with IE 6/7 and it's lovely ability to grab spyware and malware among other things.
The one thing I will consistently give Mac credit for is in the graphic arts department. Every year they seem to put together a system that can render drawings faster than PC. To me, this is the major advantage.
The other thing that I hear as an absurd argument is that 'macs get no viruses.' While it might be true in its present form, don't you believe as Mac gets a greater marketshare that these so called keyboard tough-guys will turn their sites to the Mac and cause the same havoc for you? It is unrealistic to assume that Mac is so great that you cannot find any bug or any hole to sneak a trojan in the back door (and I'm not talking about your old rubbers, either). :goodevil:
Who knows 'what is best'--maybe I should just use ubuntu instead.
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don't mess with dr00d. he can crush your feelings.
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Macs definitely look prettier.
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dr00d- graphics is now basically identical. The move to Intel for Apple presented some advantages and huge disadvantages. Advantages are it can keep up speed wise with PC's. Disadvantage is the reliability. Macs suffer with being very reliable when running high end programs on the Intels. With all of the "it just works" nonsense Apple spews, I was highly disappointed with just how many crashes and bugs are found in OS X. But, it depends on what you'll use it for. So what will be its main purpose, Koug?
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vmware fusion FTW
i'm assuming waks has at least 2gb ram
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Hooray for dr00d. I finally have found a PC advocate to participate in this little debate. Hadn't found one until now.
I'll be using it for a lot of photoshopping and video creation (so I'll get programs like Final Cut and PS CS3). I'll also do some programming on it, more's the pity (C++, Java, PHP primarily).
I don't play games on it, so that's not an issue.
I made a pretty nice little spreadsheet to weigh how important each computer spec is to me personally, and rank computers side-by-side accordingly. Here are the weights (higher number = more important):
Processor 210
Memory 300
Hard Drive 40
Screen 20
Weight 210
Battery Life 240
Thickness 75
OS 20 (OS X gets 20, XP gets 10, Vista 0)
CNET Review 96
Price 250
And here's how the laptops I've looked at rank so far:
1 Apple MacBook 292
2 Dell Inspiron 1420 274
3 Dell XPS M1330 271
4 Toshiba Satellite U305 255
5 Lenovo ThinkPad T61 238
6 HP Pavilion dv9500t 227
As you can see, giving OS X Leopard 20 "bonus points" over Vista is all that separates the MacBook from the 2 Dells. Thoughts?
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If you're using CS3, I'd highly suggest not getting a Mac. There are various reasons. First is the color correction. Apple makes their monitors without the ability to adjust colors. Nvidia drivers are so poor for Macs, there are no color correction options. And most printer drivers are so poor, there are no color correction options for those either. Second, it's much more resource intensive on OSX. I have no idea why, but I had twice the RAM on my mac as my vista machine and it crashed every chance it got.
In all honesty, I'd recommend a Dell Latitude. Check these out:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/dec_blank_page?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
Right now there is a huge sale on them. They come with a 3 year warranty. etc.
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How can you work on video and graphics and have a hard-drive as a 40? I don't understand.
This list of computers versus your spreadsheet really doesn't do a whole lot for me. I have no idea how you set this up.
It doesn't really matter though since you have some an 'awesome apartment' in Olathe of all places. I'm just going to look like the poor asshole in the end.
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How can you work on video and graphics and have a hard-drive as a 40? I don't understand.
This list of computers versus your spreadsheet really doesn't do a whole lot for me. I have no idea how you set this up.
It doesn't really matter though since you have some an 'awesome apartment' in Olathe of all places. I'm just going to look like the poor asshole in the end.
The internal hard drive is not important to me for 2 reasons: 1) Every model I looked at has a HD that's more than sufficient (120+ gigs) for me, and 2) if I do run out of space, external HDs are easy to come by and cheap. Therefore, the HD is not a deciding factor for me.
The list logic is quite simple: each computer gets awarded a portion of the "weight" points based on its proportion of that spec to its competitors. I.e., if the Weight for Memory was 90, and Computer 1 had 3GB while Computer 2 had 2GB, Computer 1 would get 54 points ([3/5]*90), while Computer 2 would get 36 points ([2/5]*90). And so on and so forth. The weights aren't in any unit of measurement; just an arbitrary number I assigned so that the specs are ranked in the proportion I want them to be.
ew2x4: You are going to have a war on your hands with ECN shortly, I'd wager.
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If you're using CS3, I'd highly suggest not getting a Mac. There are various reasons. First is the color correction. Apple makes their monitors without the ability to adjust colors. Nvidia drivers are so poor for Macs, there are no color correction options. And most printer drivers are so poor, there are no color correction options for those either. Second, it's much more resource intensive on OSX. I have no idea why, but I had twice the RAM on my mac as my vista machine and it crashed every chance it got.
In all honesty, I'd recommend a Dell Latitude. Check these out:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/dec_blank_page?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
Right now there is a huge sale on them. They come with a 3 year warranty. etc.
its a little early in the morn for crack, eh?
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If you're using CS3, I'd highly suggest not getting a Mac. There are various reasons. First is the color correction. Apple makes their monitors without the ability to adjust colors. Nvidia drivers are so poor for Macs, there are no color correction options. And most printer drivers are so poor, there are no color correction options for those either. Second, it's much more resource intensive on OSX. I have no idea why, but I had twice the RAM on my mac as my vista machine and it crashed every chance it got.
In all honesty, I'd recommend a Dell Latitude. Check these out:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/dec_blank_page?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
Right now there is a huge sale on them. They come with a 3 year warranty. etc.
its a little early in the morn for crack, eh?
Which emo black turtle neck did you wear today?
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damn that steve dave!!
when i get done doing things in cs3 on my mac with no problem, while also running 5 other apps, ill respond better to this thread. but for now, ive got work to do.
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Less with the smack, more with the helping me buy a computer.
Oh, and no Latitudes, ew. If I get a Dell, it'll be one of the two I listed, which are Dell's best options at the moment.
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dude. i yahoo'd you plenty of info.
it was great info.
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dude. i yahoo'd you plenty of info.
it was great info.
Yes, yes you did. And I appreciate it immensely. But that was only one side of the coin. You've finally got opposition now.
Fight (with computer arguments)! Fight to the death!
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damn that steve dave!!
:lol: :runaway:
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Have you thought outside the box? Asus makes some great laptops (they used to manufacture Apple laptops, now Clevo does, i think).
http://store.agearnotebooks.com/asusf8sv.html
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bro in law has one of those.
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bro in law has one of those.
How does he like it? I came pretty close to getting one, but it was out of my price range at the time.
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Have you thought outside the box? Asus makes some great laptops (they used to manufacture Apple laptops, now Clevo does, i think).
http://store.agearnotebooks.com/asusf8sv.html
Yes, I've looked at all kinds of brands, including Asus. Turns out, Dell really does make the best PCs, bang-for-buck-wise.
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bro in law has one of those.
How does he like it? I came pretty close to getting one, but it was out of my price range at the time.
dude loves it. he has 3 laptops, uses that one most.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
Yes you do. Chupa is killing you right now, and I'm going to get a MacBook, and it'll be all your fault. So step it up.
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Chupa is only killing me with mind bullets. He ain't got crap on PC. I'm bringing my replay booth.
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hip, hip.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
Yes you do. Chupa is killing you right now, and I'm going to get a MacBook, and it'll be all your fault. So step it up.
Have you used OS X before? If so, decide from that. If not, load VM Ware and try it out. That and your status in society are all that's the difference between the Mac and PC.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
Yes you do. Chupa is killing you right now, and I'm going to get a MacBook, and it'll be all your fault. So step it up.
Have you used OS X before? If so, decide from that. If not, load VM Ware and try it out. That and your status in society are all that's the difference between the Mac and PC.
Don't I have to buy OS X then? Not gonna happen. Besides, every single review of Vista has been negative, whereas every single review of OS X has been extremely positive. Overwhelming enough to trust.
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either way, the macs run both the osx and windows.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
Yes you do. Chupa is killing you right now, and I'm going to get a MacBook, and it'll be all your fault. So step it up.
Have you used OS X before? If so, decide from that. If not, load VM Ware and try it out. That and your status in society are all that's the difference between the Mac and PC.
Don't I have to buy OS X then? Not gonna happen. Besides, every single review of Vista has been negative, whereas every single review of OS X has been extremely positive. Overwhelming enough to trust.
I can't imagine there would be any bias there at all.
How long did these people spend on OS X compared to Winblows?
...and I'd like for Waks to tell me how Mac is so innovative.
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i call waks (we are k-state) to the stand.
waks, tell us your thoughts.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
Yes you do. Chupa is killing you right now, and I'm going to get a MacBook, and it'll be all your fault. So step it up.
Have you used OS X before? If so, decide from that. If not, load VM Ware and try it out. That and your status in society are all that's the difference between the Mac and PC.
Don't I have to buy OS X then? Not gonna happen. Besides, every single review of Vista has been negative, whereas every single review of OS X has been extremely positive. Overwhelming enough to trust.
LOL, buy software? You can use someone's Leopard disc or download it. Alternatively, you can download a demo of Vista and try it. Personally, I like Vista. The problems people have are driver related, really. Dell's Vista driver support is great. Additionally, Vista is much further along than both XP and Cheetah when they were first released.
Or you could get a Macbook Air.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
Yes you do. Chupa is killing you right now, and I'm going to get a MacBook, and it'll be all your fault. So step it up.
Have you used OS X before? If so, decide from that. If not, load VM Ware and try it out. That and your status in society are all that's the difference between the Mac and PC.
Don't I have to buy OS X then? Not gonna happen. Besides, every single review of Vista has been negative, whereas every single review of OS X has been extremely positive. Overwhelming enough to trust.
I can't imagine there would be any bias there at all.
For reviews that are unanimous or nearly so? Please.
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you asking if you have to buy osx? kougz?
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you asking if you have to buy osx? kougz?
Nevermind on that front.
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I really liked my Macbook until the battery went to crap. I guess I haven't been maintaining it properly or something. It's only good for about 1:30 now, but it was more like 2:40 when it was new.
This macbook Air is a horribly overpriced disappointment. The Macbook is small enough. I want something with longer battery life, but the claim of 5 hours equates to about 3 hours in the real world. It's certainly not worth a $7000 premium to get something that's a little bit smaller and has a little bit longer battery life. I'm considering getting a Macbook Pro (for the bigger screen and better graphics.) Or I might update to a newer Macbook and sell this one on ebay.
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ew2x4, what are the specs on your MacBook that has so much trouble with PhotoShop CS3? I need a reference point. Thx.
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It had 2 ghz core 2 duo, nvidia 7400 and 2 GB of ram. I think my problem was Rosetta. I was using a couple non-universal programs and it KILLS OS X. CS2 did this a ton. I couldn't open two Adobe programs or else it would crash. I upgraded to CS3 (Universal binary), and Acrobat 8 wouldn't let me print at all on two different plotters and a different laser printer, so it was def a software issue. Every piece of software I used, minus Adium, crashed at least once in my time there. Sketchup crashed about twice a day. CS2, about 3 times a day. CS3, about twice a week. The DIvx plugin for Firefox was severely buggy. Streaming radios on macs sucked because WMP 9 is awful. Vectorworks 12 was also incredibly bloated (i hear 2008 is much better though). Overall, driver support for video cards and printers are awful (I heard ATI was pretty good). In my time there, we had two hard drive crashes (corrupt, not a hardware failure), returned two monitors (50+ stuck pixels, screen looked damaged), and one motherboard get toasted. It's worth noting, these were common issues in an 18 person office (14 of whom use Macs for high end design work) with 2 tech guys.
There were some good things. I like Expose and dashboard (even though it basically killed off Konfabulator). Networking is a breeze (Vista is pretty easy now, as well). UI was simple and easy (this could be a con if you want a lot of control over things).
Overall, don't buy the hype that it's faster and more stable. It's not. It's just a different package for the same things you'll do on a PC. As for Vista, it really is incredibly stable. Like I said, the only real problem is the drivers, which is not Microsoft's fault. It's much further along than any other OS at this point in their life. Every OS will have pros and cons. IMHO, both OS's are about the same in terms of quality. Windows is far ahead in terms of available software, stability (with programs I heavily use) and hardware options. OSX is ahead in terms of simplicity and style. Base your decision on battery life and warranty, is my advice.
PS. have you checked out the Dell Outlet?
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Overall, don't buy the hype that it's faster and more stable. It's not.
If it was just "hype," that'd be one thing...but professional reviews say this as well.
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Overall, don't buy the hype that it's faster and more stable. It's not.
If it was just "hype," that'd be one thing...but professional reviews say this as well.
Like I said in my first post, it's a great system for the casual user. Most of the reviews are done with them in mind. That's who the OS is geared towards. If it was made for high end users, there would be a better selection of graphics cards and other proprietary hardware, and more intensive programs (Sometimes you need more than Maya and CS3).
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its a great system for me. a professional in the graphics industry using CS3 constantly and relying on it to get my clients the jobs they so desperately want.
i am able to run all of cs3 at the same time, whether it be doing a huge filter run in photoshop, streamlining it in illustrator, or making a dumb animated gif for this place.
i have worked on HUGE 3 gig files for buildings without skipping a beat.
i have made 45 different ads for one company and keeping them in line using the cs3 bridge feature without interruption.
i use it casually at home, when im not making imovies or other wallpapers. again, every app open and running.
this new CS doesnt use rosetta. it opens up faster, and is more reliable.
i have had zero issues, zero crashes. maintain your machine. just like adding oil to a car, run techtool or whatever to keep her going smooth.
i still use my g4 tower from 98, without having to reinstall anything ever, or losing important files that may have made me go postal.
im just saying, macs may not be for everyone, but they are for me.
:runaway:
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Ooo, chupa brings it strong, ew.
What "high end" programs are you running that crashed it? I know Macs can run CS no problem.
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Chupa and I don't have to argue on the intarwebs.
Yes you do. Chupa is killing you right now, and I'm going to get a MacBook, and it'll be all your fault. So step it up.
Have you used OS X before? If so, decide from that. If not, load VM Ware and try it out. That and your status in society are all that's the difference between the Mac and PC.
Don't I have to buy OS X then? Not gonna happen. Besides, every single review of Vista has been negative, whereas every single review of OS X has been extremely positive. Overwhelming enough to trust.
I can't imagine there would be any bias there at all.
How long did these people spend on OS X compared to Winblows?
...and I'd like for Waks to tell me how Mac is so innovative.
I honestly don't know crap compared to you guys about computers. From a computer-retarded stand point it just seems like Mac has put a lot more thought into their product. I'm not nearly as passionate as you guys are about this so I'm not going to get all riled up and what not about Specs. An example of something that makes it seem like Apple thinks about the little stuff are like the power cord being magnetic (however small of a thing that may be). I picked a Mac because the reviews I had read were all positive and point towards a MacBook being the best laptop that was being made right now (consumer reports and other generic rating services). As far as the virus thing goes...it may be that the Mac consumer base is so small that that is why viruses aren't such a rampant problem like with PCs so there may be a new virus problem in years to come with Macs but that problem likely won't strike until I'm on to a new computer so I don't really care. Feel free to dissect whatever is wrong in this post. Like I said, I don't know crap when it comes to computers, I just read reviews and went with what was well-rated at the time.
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Ooo, chupa brings it strong, ew.
What "high end" programs are you running that crashed it? I know Macs can run CS no problem.
Read my post. Every program I have used, minus Adium, has crashed. Some regularly (mentioned), some not so much. I left out the architecture related programs as I doubted you would use them. Vectorworks 12, SketchUP 5 and 6, Maya, CS2 much much more than CS3, CS3 had software bugs that I mentioned, Maxwell, another drafting program that I forgot the name to. All of these are pretty system intensive. CS3 is a huge upgrade over CS2, but it wasn't without its issues (read above). In fact, did you read any of my post? I'm pretty sure ecn and I agreed on most of this. Worked well for his uses and most casual uses. Worked poorly for mine (visualization, CAD, illustrations, document organization, etc. You determine where you think your uses for it will go. Or do you need us to hit the "checkout" button for you? If you have read ECN and my posts, you'd realize we both know it comes down to what you want to use it for. We know you use CS3, ok good. What else? If you want to know what you should buy, we should know what you want. Not what we want and use our systems for.
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You misunderstood me. Programs don't get much more CPU-intensive than CS3 or video editing programs like Final Cut or Ulead. But those are exactly the types of programs many Mac users get Macs for: photo and vid editing. Therefore, I'm just trying to figure out why yours would crash so often; wondering if it was those architecture programs you mentioned, rather than CS3 itself.
Chill, I'm not buying anything quite yet. And in the meantime, I'm just trying to get as much info as I possibly can.
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Maya, Cinema 4D and other visualization programs take full system resources. Especially during rendering. In other words, nothing can be more system intensive. It basically locks up your computer until it's done.
As for all the other crashes, it's because no OS is infallible. None will be perfect. OS X doesn't get as good software development, driver development, etc. because of their small market share. Firefox is just now (by just now, I mean with the latest version, 2.0) becoming usable on it, for example.
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If you're going to be doing anything graphics-intensive, you'll probably want a macbook pro. The new macbooks do take up to 4 gb of memory though so if you max it out, it would probably be tolerable with some of those programs. They just put a new video card in the macbook, but it's still not nearly as good as the pro cards and you can't upgrade it.
Macs don't get viruses because they run bsd unix and it just doesn't have the security holes that windoze does.
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If you're going to be doing anything graphics-intensive, you'll probably want a macbook pro. The new macbooks do take up to 4 gb of memory though so if you max it out, it would probably be tolerable with some of those programs. They just put a new video card in the macbook, but it's still not nearly as good as the pro cards and you can't upgrade it.
Macs don't get viruses because they run bsd unix and it just doesn't have the security holes that windoze does.
All laptops take 4 GB's. Vista 64 bit supports much more, but a notebook's capacity is only 4 GB. PC's have better video cards, as well as a better selection.
As for virii, come on now. You can write them for Macs, but nobody does because it has such a small marketshare. It's not the Unix that keeps it clean. I thought everyone knew this? Also, I have never had a virus on my PC. It's called Firefox, an antivirus program, and only trust worthy pr0n sites.
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I'll throw my 2 cents in . . .
I have a MacBook (base model: 2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 1GB memory, 80GB hard drive, Leopard 10.5) Parrallels running Windows XP) and a G4 iMac (1GHz PowerPC G4, 1.25GB memory, 120GB hard drive/500GB external, Tiger 10.4) at home. Work on a Dell Precision 380 tower (3.6Ghz Pentium 4, 2GB memory, 80GB hard drive) at work.
I'm a landscape architect (and amateur photographer), so work with AutoCad, Sketchup, CS3, etc. Just installed CS3 on both macs at home, and also Lightroom, and haven't had any problems. Sketchup 6 also installed (btw, there is a patch on the webs that fixes the Leopard freeze problem, was a problem with the graphics driver. ran it, and SU works perfectly now).
As everyone has said before, if you are a casual/amateur user, then macbook/macbook pro works great for these programs. Not as fast as my Dell at work, but not sure you can really compare the 2. Never have owned a Windows laptop, so can't comment on that as well.
I will say that I have decided to buy a Mac Pro sometime in the future, as my iMac is now infuriatingly slower than my Macbook, and using the book as my primary graphics workhorse is not practical for me.
If you are a poweruser, and are familiar with Unix, than OSX is fantastic. It allows for endless scripting to improve workflow, without the need to buy any extra software. Most people are not, so this aspect of OSX is usually overlooked.
I will say that most people, including myself, are partly drawn to Macs for the design factor. I never really try to convince people to buy Macs, as it is indeed a personal preference.
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get the cheapest good computer you can find